Posted on Nov 28, 2014
Should service members that commit adultery be processed for discharge and be given an OTH?
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Adultery is punishable under the UCMJ, but I personally have never seen it executed. I know a lot of service members will phlander while deployed, and likewise, their civilian spouses. With divorce running rampant through the military, divorce rate in excess of 50%, should commands be coming down harder on members that 'cheat'? There are numerous problems with this: there are those that make up stories to ruin a career, is it he said/she said, difficult to prove, do you bring all three witnesses into a court setting to get statements. I would imagine the only time it actually becomes a problem, is when two married service members get involved and it becomes a 'black eye' for the unit. Or in cases where there is fraternization accompanied with adultery...in the chain of command.
I bring up this question because I feel the military could do more, and should institute a pro-active approach to increasing successful marriages. Coming down on cheaters is just one thought. The problem I see with this is the military member gets punished but not the civilian spouse...it is one sided.
I bring up this question because I feel the military could do more, and should institute a pro-active approach to increasing successful marriages. Coming down on cheaters is just one thought. The problem I see with this is the military member gets punished but not the civilian spouse...it is one sided.
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When you wrote: "I feel the military could do more, and should institute a pro-active approach to increasing successful marriages," you were on the money, but your proposed solution is way off.
First, it goes after one aspect of marriage, fidelity, that usually isn't a problem until the marriage is in trouble for other reasons (e.g., physical or emotional distance, stress, financial problems, etc.). You don't cure or prevent anything by addressing symptoms.
Second, the ramifications for adultery are already so harsh that the non-offending spouse already knows through the rumor mill NOT to report their military spouse. Better to divorce him/her in civilian court and let the military member keep the job that can pay child support, alimony, and college benefits, than to blow the whistle to military authorities. Your proposal of OTH discharge would make things worse, not better.
Third, crimes of passion - for lack of a different term - rarely are dissuaded by threatened consequences. People in a bar fight know assault is against the law, but in the moment, it doesn't enter into the decision making process. This would be no different. Additionally, people committing adultery specifically plan not to get caught. Adding more consequences for getting caught only means it is all the more important not to get caught. There's a big difference between that and not doing it in the first place.
If you truly care about military marriages, and I completely agree that there needs to be more effort focused on this, look at advocating for things like longer periods between PCSs, more real support during deployment (not dumping everything on the FRG), a closer look at how we handle the work day (could we do better at managing the work week to 40 hours?), and things like that. Looking to affix blame after the barn has burned down and the horse has run off is just pointless. It has more to do with desiring vindication than remedy. If my spouse left me for another service member, throwing the other woman out of the Army (after what probably would amount to over a year of proceedings and having my own personal life aired for the entire unit's entertainment) wouldn't do a gosh darn bit of good.
First, it goes after one aspect of marriage, fidelity, that usually isn't a problem until the marriage is in trouble for other reasons (e.g., physical or emotional distance, stress, financial problems, etc.). You don't cure or prevent anything by addressing symptoms.
Second, the ramifications for adultery are already so harsh that the non-offending spouse already knows through the rumor mill NOT to report their military spouse. Better to divorce him/her in civilian court and let the military member keep the job that can pay child support, alimony, and college benefits, than to blow the whistle to military authorities. Your proposal of OTH discharge would make things worse, not better.
Third, crimes of passion - for lack of a different term - rarely are dissuaded by threatened consequences. People in a bar fight know assault is against the law, but in the moment, it doesn't enter into the decision making process. This would be no different. Additionally, people committing adultery specifically plan not to get caught. Adding more consequences for getting caught only means it is all the more important not to get caught. There's a big difference between that and not doing it in the first place.
If you truly care about military marriages, and I completely agree that there needs to be more effort focused on this, look at advocating for things like longer periods between PCSs, more real support during deployment (not dumping everything on the FRG), a closer look at how we handle the work day (could we do better at managing the work week to 40 hours?), and things like that. Looking to affix blame after the barn has burned down and the horse has run off is just pointless. It has more to do with desiring vindication than remedy. If my spouse left me for another service member, throwing the other woman out of the Army (after what probably would amount to over a year of proceedings and having my own personal life aired for the entire unit's entertainment) wouldn't do a gosh darn bit of good.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
I'm not proposing an OTH discharge is the solution, but it is an option right now. I feel a letter of reprimand for 1st offense, NJ for second, and discharge for 3rd...would seem fair. There is so much infidelity now it seems like marriage should be 'illegal' for he first 3 years....said with sarcasm, but a hint of honesty.
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For the record, I've had a few courts-martial with adultery as a charge. Even though the civilians do not prosecute we tend to because it's prejudice to good order and discipline and/or beings discredit to the armed forces.
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SFC Peter Cyprian
SGT Kesler- punitive articles have elements that must be met/proven by the TC in order to convict. Just like any law in the civilian world. One of the elements of the crime that must be proven for adultery is the effect on good order and discipline. If you cannot prove ALL elements of a given article, you cannot get a conviction for that article. It is not a matter of "articles that aren't enforced". It is a matter of "can we prove all the elements", because if they can't, they can't charge the Soldier.
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SFC Peter Cyprian
No, just a CJ major that also teaches Site Exploitation, Forensics, and Biometrics. ;-)
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SSG Brian Fernandez
"For the record, I've had a few courts-martial with adultery as a charge." Amber you better tighten up that shot group. LOL
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Unless one of the people involved admitted the act or you have film that clearly shows the act, it's hard to prove. A command only has so much time and people, an adultery task force was never one of my priorities.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Agreed sir! How does one get caught? I guess by email or text message...but seriously a serious charge to make on hearsay. My guess, it happens more than we are all willing to admit.
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No the military shouldn't. I think it is an old rule and (generally speaking) has no place in the military.
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It is covered under UCMJ, it is rarely enforced. Out of my 11 years I think I saw it enforced once, and that was by a dependent, her husband was having an affair with another soldier. But, when it comes to another soldier having illicit contact with another soldiers spouse, they need to make it easier for the offended soldier to have recourse, better access to letting the command know what is happening, and try and handle this issue through channels. I know back in my day, it was near impossible, I am unsure about it now. Unfortunately, the military is a direct reflection of society, and all kinds of people cheat, or disrespect the one they marry, spouses do this as well as soldiers. Some spouses will only marry the service-member for the allotment. Hell, the first Gulf War, they made it a rule on Ft Campbell, you could not use a red light as your porch light, because so many spouses were using that as a beacon to their would be boyfriends. But, honestly it should be enforced internally, one soldier should not prey upon another soldiers family.
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If we go to the origin of what is a marriage, we can see how being unfaithful to your family can lead into question your ethics and credibility for the country you promised to protect. Your word is your word, without it you are nothing. Cheating is wrong and we all know it, all know the pain it brings and how destructive it can be. I believe punishment while enlisted is appropriate and you shouldn't be allowed to cheat without serious consequences. Think of what allowing this behavior raises. A culture that finds a sense of normalcy in committing adultery. Maybe that ties into the high divorce rates. I also believe if the spouse whom is not a service member should have some more serious consequences as well. I can go on for days on how many members got cheated on while they were deployed. That's quite infuriating. I guess setting the precedent will minimize these acts and build a new bridge with members and their conduct at home. To act accordingly in all aspects of their lives, not just at work. Overall being cheated on sucks and we can at the very least agree on that. It's wrong and it hurts.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SrA (Join to see) I couldn't agree more with your statement, this aligns with core values. If you have no core values, can you have Army values. Too many NCOs look the other way when they know their troops are out messing around. It starts at the NCO level and trickles up and down from there. Funny, how many precedents are set by NCOs! Drinking, dipping, smoking, PT, Common knowledge tasks, fidelity, and and the list goes one and on.
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SrA (Join to see)
Exactly! We inadvertently encourage certain things and habits without even realizing it. I guess we can agree on full accountability in all we do.
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SSG LoGuidice,
I am in complete agreement.
The difficultly however, ultimately comes in proving it in legal proceedings. You essentially need photographic evidence or an admission of guilt from one of the parties to successfully prosecute adultery. I suspect that is why it's so often over-looked as opposed to prosecute.
We do have an approach to increasing successful marriages in the Army. MRT training and chaplain sponsered marriage retreats.
I am in complete agreement.
The difficultly however, ultimately comes in proving it in legal proceedings. You essentially need photographic evidence or an admission of guilt from one of the parties to successfully prosecute adultery. I suspect that is why it's so often over-looked as opposed to prosecute.
We do have an approach to increasing successful marriages in the Army. MRT training and chaplain sponsered marriage retreats.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
I know I did a week long pre-marital workshop, which helped. I think it was command directed. A more pro-active approach is needed. Before long there will be nothing enticing about marrriage. It is at an all time low across the country. I say in jest, we need more American babies to balance out the huge Muslim families that are being born into the world. The average Muslim mother has about 5 kids...and in America it is less than 3.
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I would have to offer the "Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS) response.
If you still need to mess around, don't get married.
A cheating partner SHOULD be divorced from, and left nothing. They got what they got when they ran out and got it. If they got pregnant or caught Herpes by doing so...its now their problem (and Karma?).
If there are children involved, the child support dollars should never go to the custodial parent so they can go run around some more and spend most of it on themselves. Instead, the money should go to directly pay for the materials/services needed.
Adultery should mean "Conduct Unbecoming" of a military member (doesn't have to be an Officer). I'm going to take a stab at qualifying this. When you joined you took an Oath. When you got Married, you also took an Oath. If you cause the breaking of either one, then your word means shit, thus putting into question the value of any other Oaths you've ever taken.
I think it should be punitive, but not a discharge. Id say this newly single service-member is even more "deployable". If we're talking about the service-member being guilty of Adultery...ship them away from the about-to-be-divorced spouse.
Now...when you say that the civilian cheaters don't get punished...well...that's pretty much correct. The wife of the deployable having other men over is just sickening to me and it adds to the argument they were only interested in the wedding for the military's benefits. So I don't see why the husband should have to pay for her crap. For those cases where its a Male civilian cheating while his military wife is deployed, same rules should apply.
I substituted the word Deployable for Serving, just because that's often when it happens...when they think their coasts are clear.
Though I do have to throw in something. If Marriage is "...until death do we part, remain in sickness and in health..." then when one cheats...I suspect some might argue that this falls under the "...in sickness..." bit. Cheating is a huge ball of (lacking self control), (maximum disrespect), (my wedding vow meant Jack Shit to me), etc. But I'm not sure Divorce is always the best thing for all parties involved or affected. That however doesn't mean a cheater should just be able to "play along" with counseling merely to avoid an Adultery charge.
If you still need to mess around, don't get married.
A cheating partner SHOULD be divorced from, and left nothing. They got what they got when they ran out and got it. If they got pregnant or caught Herpes by doing so...its now their problem (and Karma?).
If there are children involved, the child support dollars should never go to the custodial parent so they can go run around some more and spend most of it on themselves. Instead, the money should go to directly pay for the materials/services needed.
Adultery should mean "Conduct Unbecoming" of a military member (doesn't have to be an Officer). I'm going to take a stab at qualifying this. When you joined you took an Oath. When you got Married, you also took an Oath. If you cause the breaking of either one, then your word means shit, thus putting into question the value of any other Oaths you've ever taken.
I think it should be punitive, but not a discharge. Id say this newly single service-member is even more "deployable". If we're talking about the service-member being guilty of Adultery...ship them away from the about-to-be-divorced spouse.
Now...when you say that the civilian cheaters don't get punished...well...that's pretty much correct. The wife of the deployable having other men over is just sickening to me and it adds to the argument they were only interested in the wedding for the military's benefits. So I don't see why the husband should have to pay for her crap. For those cases where its a Male civilian cheating while his military wife is deployed, same rules should apply.
I substituted the word Deployable for Serving, just because that's often when it happens...when they think their coasts are clear.
Though I do have to throw in something. If Marriage is "...until death do we part, remain in sickness and in health..." then when one cheats...I suspect some might argue that this falls under the "...in sickness..." bit. Cheating is a huge ball of (lacking self control), (maximum disrespect), (my wedding vow meant Jack Shit to me), etc. But I'm not sure Divorce is always the best thing for all parties involved or affected. That however doesn't mean a cheater should just be able to "play along" with counseling merely to avoid an Adultery charge.
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Anyone that commits Adultry should have their genitials cauterized. At the very least a less than honorable.
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I think adulty becomes more of an issue when there is fraternization as well. You don't hardly hear about it otherwise.
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I was sitting in the back of a Humvee one day when I heard a seasoned NCO that was the TC telling soldiers sitting in the back that it was ok to cheat on their wives. But it was funny to hear the same individual saying that if his wife cheats, he will bring wreck havoc upon her. This man was the most decorated and the most admired NCO of our unit when I was there. Many people knew about him, but nobody dared to address him about the matter. And many married soldiers followed his footsteps and defiled their marital beds.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
NCOs run the Army, if they were were trained one way...it is quite difficult to break the cycle. I feel all this SHARP training we are getting shoved down our throats are the result of decades of infidelity or the acceptance of it. It is difficult to find the perfect NCO, many would refer to a perfect NCO as a _______....you fill in the blank.
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1LT (Join to see)
Well that NCO was the SHARP representative for the unit by the way. And he put himself out to be a defender of women!!! Interesting huh
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No they should prosecute the rapist that rape the women and men. In the past if the serial rapist raped anyone they prosecuted the person that it attacked, because it the serial rapist was married. For more than 30 years men and women have been attacked violently by our own in our Armed Forces it has not been taken seriously nor most of the time the rapist are held accountable, however the person attacked & reported the crime is retaliated and harmed more. It is sick, evil and demented to charge the person that was attacked by a rapist violently for adultery. Those commanders military legal persons that is involved in doing such atrocities should be charged as well right along with the violent rapist. We have had in the past too many soldiers that has reported rape and attacks that were charge with adultery. Outwardly this shows how much of violently sex offenders that those all involved that were a part in hurting any soldier this way. Covering up the criminal, but using a religious excuse to charge the victim that was hurt. Those commanders and all involved that orchestrated any harm to get back for reporting rape, crimes and gross wrongdoings should be charged and held accountable as well and the victims helped. It should not be any of anyone's business who someone else is having sex with unless it is a violent attack, rape and sexual assault. During the time of 1985 - 1992 men that lied about being married the other person should not be charged, but paid financially for restitution this will stop that real quick. The men lie they have charged the other person, but when the men do they are not charged. You cannot charged someone for something someone else did. The person that was tricked they should be help legally to go after the person that lied for damages. Go after the other signification other due to the man that lied to trick the other person. But this sick evil actions going after the person that was raped, just because the serial rapist was married any and all do not have the right to serve in any position. This is extreme violence towards women and or towards the person that was raped. The retaliation that is going on in the Military and out orchestrated harm to hurt those that report rape, attacks and gross wrongs that destroyed a person life with irreversible conditions. All involved should be charged and held accountable. The gross gang like, cliquish individuals that are abusing their power, and good old boy corruption must be corrected stopped and held accountable. Slavery is against the law and those that wants power trips to force controlling a human being to force them to only stay with them and thinks that they have the only say so on a particular human being is wrong and it must be stopped. If couples go out on each other it is none of our business!!! Rape, violent harms, retaliation, orchestrating harm to get back at someone to harm them sabotaging career, life and health forever by violent means is our business and anyone in our Armed Forces abusing laws to hurt others while for decades they have not held rapist accountable they need to be held accountable and let go. The Armed Forces thinks they have a right to get into another bed that is consensual sex, but will go above and beyond to cover up a rapist. That is sick!!! Some female or male getting mad because their spouse is leaving them, well there must be a reason this is only vindictiveness. Church and State or supposed to be separated. Stop charging those that have been raped by married serial rapist for adultery and allowing the rapist go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get rid of the adultery. Help those that have been harmed by violent attacks instead of ganging up on them and acting corrupt.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SGT Karen Scott I'm sorry for what ever halppened...that was quite a release! The attack on women has gone on too long. Even my daughter, a Sailor went to a JAG officer about a case...She told her they would take down everyone in the unit and would attempt to smear her good name in court...it was exactly as you mentioned above, an attack on the accuser, and the other guy was married, and my daughter was single in this case.
You mention that it is none of the military business whom you are in a relationship with, I would argue that if they are providing BAQ, and VHA, and all the supplemental pay that goes along with being married, as well as providing medical insurance, they damn well should know what's going on, not every nitty gritty detail, But the military literally pays for a home over 30 years, and sleeping with anyone other than your spouse could be construed as fraud. The UCMJ can prosecute for almost anything.
Again, sorry about your experience, the days of MST are now upon us. I was a guy that wouldn't even sleep with a woman if alcohol was invloved...I was freaked that someone could say something the next day.
Thanks for your comment, Rape, Non-consensual sex, and violence towards our SMs shouldn't ever be allowed and especially by our own...the victim becomes the victim, over and over again in a court room.
You mention that it is none of the military business whom you are in a relationship with, I would argue that if they are providing BAQ, and VHA, and all the supplemental pay that goes along with being married, as well as providing medical insurance, they damn well should know what's going on, not every nitty gritty detail, But the military literally pays for a home over 30 years, and sleeping with anyone other than your spouse could be construed as fraud. The UCMJ can prosecute for almost anything.
Again, sorry about your experience, the days of MST are now upon us. I was a guy that wouldn't even sleep with a woman if alcohol was invloved...I was freaked that someone could say something the next day.
Thanks for your comment, Rape, Non-consensual sex, and violence towards our SMs shouldn't ever be allowed and especially by our own...the victim becomes the victim, over and over again in a court room.
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SGT Karen Scott
I'm referring to charging them with adultery. If they are not married, or not living together anymore and they didn't report it to the military while, they are receiving the financial support that is when they should get involved. But, not when they go out on each other they should do away with the adultery. I stand firm about them getting into others business who they are having sex with referring charging them with adultery. I am not referring to a soldiers having sex with someone that they shouldn’t date due to their clearance. That is different not charge them with adultery. In Korea they allowed the men to date whoever they wanted, but the women if they had a Top Secret Clearance they were not allowed to date just anyone. The men abused their power to enforce this on women they got off on this, while they were having the time of their life going out on the village and dating whoever they wanted at the same time. If they are not hurting our Country, not hurting our Armed Forces, not committing treason, not committing crimes like violent attacks & rapes it is no anyone else business. Paying the financial supplements and one of the couples went out on each other while on TDY or deployment; no I do not think they should be charged for adultery. It is sad and very hurtful. It is not anyone else business. Get rid of the adultery and pay attention to other things that are truly wrong like intentionally carrying out unlawful intentional attacks on their own to destroy their health with irreversible conditions, rape and intentional sabotage. if couples separate and want to leave one another and report that they are not living together, they got a divorced and didn’t report that is different, especially the one that is receiving the benefits. Then yes it is our Armed Forces business. But the adultery is just someone else wanting to get their fingers into drama that they have no business doing. All this wrong bs is one reason why there are so much violent sexual assaults against others and of course many other reasons. Some commander wanting to know who all his troops are having sex with, no that is sick. They don’t process the real unlawful crimes and go after stuff that seems really weird, sick and against rights. Double standards! And really who wants to be with a person that goes out on them. Tell them to have a nice life and get as far away from the as you can get. Forcing couples to be with each other is wrong!!! Soldiers have enough stress. Rape victims and mst persons needs legal help in a timely manner to keep those that are corrupt hurting them. There are much more violent wrongs that many have done that are not being held accountable and the person that they hurt not being allowed to get help in our Armed Forces. Get rid of the adultery. And I will say one more thing the men and women are not getting enough help in our Armed Forces that have children. There are too much shenanigans that are going on. The dead beat dads are getting away and the ones that are honorable that has to separate due to their significant other being hateful trying to sabotage their careers. I’ve seen commanders use this towards those that they didn’t like when the soldier didn’t deserve it. No one deserves a commander or any one attacking them trying to orchestrate any harm, even the ones that are wrong not pay child support they should have fair legal help. Destroying them and taking their job away is stupid he surely cannot pay then. During the time I served I saw too much charged for stupid things and abuse of power that were wrong and the real crimes not dealt with covered up. Over 30 years commander has not taken the rape cultural in our Military serious it needs to be taken out of the chain of command. They are too corrupt, bais/prejudice and they get away with abusing their power doing wrong. Again thank you for you condolences.
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SSG(P) (Join to see) , No. With an exception. If the adultery effects good order and discipline (ie having an affair with another Service members spouse or girlfriend) then yes. If it is completely "off post" then no.
I would suggest having the chain of command order counseling with clergy, social worker, mental health professional, marriage counselor, or psychologist and if practical couples counseling. Keep families together.
I would add, if disclosed the Command should lawfully order the Service member to correct the issue and if they do not then they can take action for failing to follow a lawful order and the adultery. As a former CID Special Agent, we were called often about Adultery charges but as an organization when I was an Agent we did not investigate them. It was a Commander's inquiry or a 15-6 investigation.
I would suggest having the chain of command order counseling with clergy, social worker, mental health professional, marriage counselor, or psychologist and if practical couples counseling. Keep families together.
I would add, if disclosed the Command should lawfully order the Service member to correct the issue and if they do not then they can take action for failing to follow a lawful order and the adultery. As a former CID Special Agent, we were called often about Adultery charges but as an organization when I was an Agent we did not investigate them. It was a Commander's inquiry or a 15-6 investigation.
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Suspended Profile
Yes. Dishonorable Discharge. Why have UCMJ articles that aren't enforced? Either enforce the article or get rid of it.
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I've dealt with this situation before and I agree with you that adultery is indeed difficult to prove, unless it's just blatantly advertised for all to see. It's unfortunate that this happens as it disrupts the good order and discipline many of us work so hard to preserve for the military. Should there ever be a case where adultery/cheating affects the SM's job/duty/performance/unit/etc then I feel appropriate measures should be taken to alleviate that tension.
With the SMA's stance on downsizing, many of our leaders being considered for QMP due to past adverse action/misconduct on their OERs/NCOERs, I am sure adultery (being punishable under the UCMJ) will only serve to help expedite that person much more quickly out the doors. As for the type of discharge they receive....I am certain that will depend entirely upon their Chain of Command.
With the SMA's stance on downsizing, many of our leaders being considered for QMP due to past adverse action/misconduct on their OERs/NCOERs, I am sure adultery (being punishable under the UCMJ) will only serve to help expedite that person much more quickly out the doors. As for the type of discharge they receive....I am certain that will depend entirely upon their Chain of Command.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
A negative bullet on an OR or NCOER, hmm hadn't considered this option, that would surely shorten the promotion list.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG LoGiudice, exactly. That is the whole point for the QMP list and why they're starting from the top down. Adultery, while harder to prove over a SHARP complaint or a DUI is still an infraction nonetheless and a blotch on an image the SMA is trying to mold to reflect that of a professional Army (not limited just to our branch however).
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Kinda makes you wonder how different your military image can different from your civilian image...I've seen some real Jekyll and Hyde types...seem perfect on paper, but their civilian life is a real mess, you've met a few I'm sure. For example we had a very young 1SG newly promoted, pop for pot his first month in command. When offered a diversion/rehab, he blatantly said, " I have bad dreams, PTSD, anxiety, depression, recently divorced and said I have no plan of stopping, it's the only thing that helps me sleep". He transferred to the Calif Guard...this is a perfect example of someone that shined on paper (or in uniform), but clearly his personal life should (if known) would have blocked a promotion. I wonder how many in command have this two-face lifestyle going on? Plenty, I'm sure. A loss of integrity on any level impacts unit readiness, security and welfare and morale of a unit. I am preaching like life in the military can be perfect...it is not, it is difficult, it is a mess, and those not wearing the uniform (family) doesn't always understand what we have to deal with. There are many cases where a spouse feels lost, alone, abandoned, insecure, and often reach out to someone they think they can trust (your buddy) and that is all it takes. I have often said, marriage should be the toughest decision you ever make while in uniform...
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SSG (Join to see)
I can agree with you there......being in for as long as I've been oh yeah you see things. But it goes to show you that not all ranks are created equal in the eyes of punishment and corrective measures/actions. As you stated, this 1SG was offered options whereas if it had been a SSG or below there wouldn't have been any options and the decision would've been made for him/her.
The crazy thing is that I have seen more marriages break up from those that are senior to me as opposed to those who are my junior. I've always said marriage isn't something one enters into lightly...hell, a relationship in general because you're making the choice to be with one person for a long period of time; however long that period of time might be you should be willing to go at it with them and them alone. I know the Army offers marriage retreats for couples and there are programs available voluntarily but what else can we do to help our Soldiers in their marriages.
We need that strong support system at home, but we also have to be willing to do our part to see to it that support system grows stronger and never falters.
The crazy thing is that I have seen more marriages break up from those that are senior to me as opposed to those who are my junior. I've always said marriage isn't something one enters into lightly...hell, a relationship in general because you're making the choice to be with one person for a long period of time; however long that period of time might be you should be willing to go at it with them and them alone. I know the Army offers marriage retreats for couples and there are programs available voluntarily but what else can we do to help our Soldiers in their marriages.
We need that strong support system at home, but we also have to be willing to do our part to see to it that support system grows stronger and never falters.
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SSG(P) (Join to see) No. I do not think you should be put out, Unless it is in there affecting the unit mission. Is it bad? Yes, that is why there is a UCMJ charge. Often infidelity takes care of itself through divorce or violence (not condoning violence, but let us face it if you sneak into a soldier's/marine/sailor/airman/coastie bed and he/she finds out, there may be trouble). And that is trouble that you should have foreseen.
If someone is abusing their position of rank/authority to get sex, that is tantamount to rape and is a wholly separate issue.
Yes, the military should try and help the troops work on better marriages. I can speak for the Air Guard, we do voluntary retreats at least once per year. Are they helpful? Yes, Do they get great turnout? No. Would they be better if mandatory? Absolutely not.
For marriage to work, both parties must want it to work. Bottom line though is that people are going to cheat and do stupid things. Not everyone will cheat, nor will everyone be stupid. When it comes to marital issues, remember that we have no real idea what is happening behind closed doors.
If someone is abusing their position of rank/authority to get sex, that is tantamount to rape and is a wholly separate issue.
Yes, the military should try and help the troops work on better marriages. I can speak for the Air Guard, we do voluntary retreats at least once per year. Are they helpful? Yes, Do they get great turnout? No. Would they be better if mandatory? Absolutely not.
For marriage to work, both parties must want it to work. Bottom line though is that people are going to cheat and do stupid things. Not everyone will cheat, nor will everyone be stupid. When it comes to marital issues, remember that we have no real idea what is happening behind closed doors.
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Should service members that commit adultery be processed for discharge and be given an OTH?
I'd say only if it causing problems with unit cohesion and mission focus.
What I'd rather see are resources for couples that help them build strong relationships and demystify what it is that they need to be happily married. Getting married is like joining the military. Could anyone really tell you what was involved before you took your vows or swore your oath? My hat is off to anyone that makes this commitment. It's really easy for me to be critical of what I see wrong in the lives of others. What takes more courage is providing an example, mentorship and leadership.
I recommend some really great books that take the guess work out of marriage.
1. The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts by Gary D Chapman.
2. Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs
by Emerson Eggerichs
3. The DNA of Relationships by Gary Smalley
Truth in advertising, these books are written from a Christian perspective. However, if you truly want a better marriage, this will not matter. My Jewish wife reread these books after I read them the first time. As we say in AA, "Take what you want and leave the rest."
I'd say only if it causing problems with unit cohesion and mission focus.
What I'd rather see are resources for couples that help them build strong relationships and demystify what it is that they need to be happily married. Getting married is like joining the military. Could anyone really tell you what was involved before you took your vows or swore your oath? My hat is off to anyone that makes this commitment. It's really easy for me to be critical of what I see wrong in the lives of others. What takes more courage is providing an example, mentorship and leadership.
I recommend some really great books that take the guess work out of marriage.
1. The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts by Gary D Chapman.
2. Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs
by Emerson Eggerichs
3. The DNA of Relationships by Gary Smalley
Truth in advertising, these books are written from a Christian perspective. However, if you truly want a better marriage, this will not matter. My Jewish wife reread these books after I read them the first time. As we say in AA, "Take what you want and leave the rest."
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1LT David Moeglein
I appreciate your words of support PO2 Corey Ferretti. I guarantee your life will be enriched if you read any of the above mentioned books. How's life in Copenhagen, NY? I was stationed at Ft. Drum 18 years ago, and lived in Evans Mills, as well as Watertown. I enjoyed shoveling and snow blowing with all of the other men in our neighborhoods during the winter months. We had a common mission. It was us against nature. I'm not sure who won. =)
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Well....I will say from my perspective that since we are an institution built on upholding values, then if a person is proven to have committed adultery, then by all means get rid of them. They themselves have no honor, integrity, personal courage and most definitely no loyalty. Again personally, I can't trust someone if I know they have fooled around.
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There was a Gunny when I was in mos school who got caught messing around a PFC and was demoted and then discharged I don't know what he was demoted to or what he discharged under but I agree with it I hate cheaters I don't put up with it
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SMH. This silliness needs to stop. This is nothing but another tool to marginalize the services. I see no inherent value except by those who hate the military.
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