Posted on Apr 26, 2016
113
113
0
https://warisboring.com/it-s-hard-to-tell-war-heroes-from-paper-pushers-when-everybody-gets-so-many-dumb-ribbons-9880c02e718c#.pm9dk9ofb
This article makes a compelling case for redesign of the DoD medal and ribbon policies. The solution offered, wearing valor awards on the right side of uniform, may not please many service members, but it's one idea. Please read the article and take the survey.
This article makes a compelling case for redesign of the DoD medal and ribbon policies. The solution offered, wearing valor awards on the right side of uniform, may not please many service members, but it's one idea. Please read the article and take the survey.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 85
Keep the awards and medals as they are. Change the criteria by which awards are given. An E-7 should not get a Bronze Star just for sitting around, getting fat and drinking 8 cups of coffee a day. While an E-4 medic or infantryman suppresses 12 fighters making multiple trips to carry wounded allies gets an ARCOM with V device.
It would take a top down change to allow awards be given out solely based on merit and not by rank. I had 4 members of my chain of command nominate me for a Silver Star as an end of tour award. It got busted down to an ARCOM because of my rank. Soldiers in my age bracket join for many reasons and leave for just as many. Having a little bit of recognition would go a long way in helping retention NCOs to do their job.
It would take a top down change to allow awards be given out solely based on merit and not by rank. I had 4 members of my chain of command nominate me for a Silver Star as an end of tour award. It got busted down to an ARCOM because of my rank. Soldiers in my age bracket join for many reasons and leave for just as many. Having a little bit of recognition would go a long way in helping retention NCOs to do their job.
(70)
(0)
SFC Kenneth Hunnell
I never recieved a bronze star and I am not fat or sat around watching others do the work, definitely do not drink coffee. Other than that you are correct
(3)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
My Lt. Put me and my buddy in for soldiers medal but it was denied and never sent up and then downgraded to aam for pulling 4 people out of head on collision wreck in front of us going to morning formation. We pulled them out and dressed wounds with my first aid kit and waited for ambulance. Cant have soldiers with medal higher than leadership medals
(3)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
Concur. More Awards and Decorations should be given to Enlisted personnel and NCOs and far fewer to Officers. The criteria should be entirely merit based. The AAM and ARCOM should be administrative. Awards beyond that should be for non-administrative achievements and actions.
As for the new AGSU, I prefer a simpler, cleaner look. Limit ribbons to a single row. No qualification badges or foreign decorations. Soldiers wear their SF, Rangers Airborne, Sapper tabs on their shoulders with their unit patch. Buttons subdued. Save the glitter for the ASU and formal occasions. The day uniform should be, well, a day uniform - like the current Class B. JMTC.
As for the new AGSU, I prefer a simpler, cleaner look. Limit ribbons to a single row. No qualification badges or foreign decorations. Soldiers wear their SF, Rangers Airborne, Sapper tabs on their shoulders with their unit patch. Buttons subdued. Save the glitter for the ASU and formal occasions. The day uniform should be, well, a day uniform - like the current Class B. JMTC.
(2)
(0)
SFC Howard Holmes
I do not like the fact that every time a soldier, Marine, Coast Guardsman, Airmen or Sailor does their job with any proficiency they feel they should get a medal. Your promotions and pay checks are for doing your job. Medals are for performing above and beyond. Shortly after the start of OIF/OEF, one received three medals just for deploying, and that didn't include overseas ribbon and any personal awards. I'm thinking that some of the performance awards should just be ribbons, and Valor awards, actual medals. Some of that needs to go for officers as well. Some of the awards they get just for doing their job running a command is ridiculous as well. I do understand the importance and weight of medals on the promotion list, but maybe more weight should be given on NCOERs, OERs, and EERs, but that has it's own issues as well. So the personal performance ribbons can be used as some weight on promotions, that prevents a SM from not being promotable because the evaluator doesn't like the SM. Bronze Stars and the such need to be reserved for combat operational achievements.
(2)
(0)
No need to change tradition. Just more emphases on proper award awarding. Here is Eisenhower's actually ribbon rack.
(65)
(0)
1LT Allan Holder
Same thing still going on today, Two weeks in to our tour in Iraq, platoon leader stated the E-6's would be receiving the BS as for their tour of duty medal, and that no-one below E-6 would be getting a BS, All the platoon leaders and platoon Sgt.'s got the BS as well. Means nothing now. Just a show up medal. As it was everybody else got an ARCOM for being in country. FYI, long story short, I was an E-5 during this time. not 1LT.
(2)
(0)
MAJ Victor Alarcon
It is an important point to remember that General Eisenhower had over 33 awards and ribbons rendered to him by foreign governments. Therefore, before anyone starts commenting on his rack consisting of US Ribbons and it’s size the United States Government has had a policy in place on foreign medals and their authorized display.
(1)
(0)
MSgt Allen Chandler
I’m very proud of the 10 ribbons I earned during my service. Somewhere because I was just me and did a good job. Summer because I was part of a team that got the job done. Add a couple were what you were probably call valor I stuck my neck out I took a chance and make things better for my service. I see people that gave the service with his few as two or three and as many as a dozen or two dozen. Does it cost to know how to read the ribbons know a lot about the person and what they did and didn’t do. I don’t object to revising the rules are changing the number of ribbons and medals but I see nothing wrong with the way were doing it today
(1)
(0)
CMSgt Donald ONeill
I have had a bad taste in my mouth when I left Vietnam . I was involved in a 15 day siege of a Special Forces camp . Going night and day making air drops and resupplying the camp and being lucky to survive . When leaving (PCS) going home they were handing out awards to all the clerks and non fighters . If it wasn't for the aviation unit putting me in for a Air metal with "V" I would have gotten nothing .
That was when I seen politics come into play as much as valor .
That was when I seen politics come into play as much as valor .
(1)
(0)
Lt Col Jim Coe, if anything, I think that the number of medals and ribbons will grow. I'm not altogether certain that anything WILL be done to accomplish what you suggest. My father served just shy of three years in the U.S. Navy during WWII, and was all over the Pacific for a fair amount of that time. This was all he was awarded and that was during a declared war for goodness sake!
(31)
(0)
Suspended Profile
LTC (Join to see) - Very true statement that I can somewhat identify with Colonel...
I spent 20 years in the Navy, with 15 of those years on ships that did deploy and take part in “important” missions. However, due to the relative “peace” we enjoyed during my time in, frequent transfers, and other factors, I never happened to be in the “right place at the right time” to earn any extra medals or ribbons. I retired with my nice, tidy, single row with Nat. Defense, Good Conduct with 4 stars, and Sea Service with a few stars...
Didn’t worry me a bit though, I still was promoted and paid the same as the guys who had to spend more money on their ribbon rack than I ever did-LOL
I spent 20 years in the Navy, with 15 of those years on ships that did deploy and take part in “important” missions. However, due to the relative “peace” we enjoyed during my time in, frequent transfers, and other factors, I never happened to be in the “right place at the right time” to earn any extra medals or ribbons. I retired with my nice, tidy, single row with Nat. Defense, Good Conduct with 4 stars, and Sea Service with a few stars...
Didn’t worry me a bit though, I still was promoted and paid the same as the guys who had to spend more money on their ribbon rack than I ever did-LOL
CW5 Les Rayburn
The medals in Viet Nam was unit based. Not every unit gave out the same awards for EOT. In a few units you you had to actually earn your awards, while some had “packets”, like company commander packets, platoon leader packets, 1StSGT packets etc. not a very good system. What they should do, is tighten the criteria for earning the awards, and make justification harder.
(3)
(0)
WO1 Dave Middleton
CW5 Les Rayburn - I was late in the war 1971, what I observed was as Commissioned officers were facing a rift, they put in for medals every chance they could. Most warrants and enlisted, especially on first tour, were not thinking about the Army as a career. Had I not been wounded, I may have seen it as an career avenue once back in the world. But at the time medals were the furthest thing from my mind. Didn’t even know I got any until I saw my DD214.
(2)
(0)
Al Reynolds
I knew something was wrong with the system when I was awarded the Nation Defense Ribbon in boot cam. That was back when they had the draft.....
I imagine now you gotta issue ribbons for the amount of ice cream eaten and snarky food consumed. Anything to pump egos.
I imagine now you gotta issue ribbons for the amount of ice cream eaten and snarky food consumed. Anything to pump egos.
(0)
(0)
My opinion, we could do away with quite a few ribbons, The NCOES ribbons, The ribbon for graduating basic and AIT, the Overseas ribbon (exception would be entering a theater of conflict) - instead of giving a ribbon for graduating an NCOES, or OES school, give an AAM for achievement. Just my two cents
(18)
(0)
CW3 (Join to see)
I do find it amusing that we get ribbons for completing required training courses.
(9)
(0)
SSG Robert Perrotto
LCpl Cody Collins - In the Army, when you graduate basic and AIT, you receive the army service ribbon
(0)
(0)
I feel most SMs wear the ribbons and medals as required by directives and many would just as rather wear only a few or none at all (except say, on very formal occasions). Hence Ike chose to wear the few which meant the most to him, and Gen Petraeus is pictured wearing his according to Army regulations. If ribbons and medals were optional in most cases, I feel that most would choose to wear none or only those 'special ones'.
(18)
(0)
COL (Join to see)
For most of my career as an officer, when not directed to wear all awards, I only wore my GCM. When I was commissioned, after 10 years enlisted/NCO, my ribbon rack put most Company Grade officers to shame. So, instead of 'medal shaming' others, I did it with my performance. I only wore all medals and ribbons, when directed.
(2)
(0)
There are plenty of cool-guy medals that are realistically only attainable if your are a very senior CSM in position of division-level and up or a General Officer. LOM, ADSM, DSSM, and DDSM fall into that category. And you know what? I am just fine with that. Let the pooh-bahs have their bling and jazzy medals as a kind of lifetime achievement award.
For me, every single ribbon or oak leaf I wear has a story, and I am not embarrassed to tell the story behind each and every one of them.
For me, every single ribbon or oak leaf I wear has a story, and I am not embarrassed to tell the story behind each and every one of them.
(17)
(0)
SSG Michael Fraer
My last overseas assignment was at the American Embassy in Madagascar. I was the Security Assistance manager. I covered four countries and interacted regularly with the high muckity mucks of their services (two of them the equivalent of our Chief of Naval Operations). My boss, a Navy O-4 submitted me to USPACOM for a Defense Meritorious Service Medal (DMSM). Because I was a lowly E6, they kicked it back, as the only people eligible for a DMSM in USPACOM were E7-E9 and O4 and above. I had a great boss, though, and he fought and got me my DMSM.
(3)
(0)
1SG Ronald Rieck
SSG Michael Fraer - That sucks. I watched an E-4 in CFC-A Afghanistan get the DMSM for being the Commanding General's IT guy. He was in-country for a total of 6 months...I thought that was BS...
(2)
(0)
This how I see it everyone is hung up on comparing WWII to today. You can not do this as they were not the same and the world is not the same.
During WWII they were on tour of duty assigned to that theater fighting that campaign and in doing so would get awarded for that campaign. Now NOT ALL went from Europe to Pacific and in doing so would receive awards and campaign recognition for that AOR. The point being is they were assigned to one mission or operation. I believe that in Europe some got awards for going into each country during certain time frames. This was all for this time nothing else was going on at that time.
This brings us to the Military of the 90's and 2000's. One it is smaller so we are asking more of them. You can have all kind of things going on at one time when this has never happen in this kind of mass mission overload. So you have few carrying a lot of burden in different area around the world and we have not asked our military to do this before.
This is what happens you have Iraq member deploys with unit for 6 months to one year then back home and preparing for next OPORDER or mission. Tasking comes and you work up for AFG different hardships and environment and campaign. Then back to US and an Earthquake happens and this unit is tasked to mobilize its assets and deploy for humanitarian disaster assistance. The country is wiped out no power and roads and bridges are all destroyed. The country needs to be restabilized, bodies recovered, power, roads and bridges need to be repaired in order to bring this country back on line. There is also disorder during this crises and dangers as riots and armed mobs try taking control. This unit completes its mission sent back to train for next deployment. Deployment order comes and it is back to Iraq for different type mission COIN. So then then they do this and complete mission. Then back to US and regroup for next mission. Disaster in US and major destruction of a region in the US and now back to disaster recovery mission set and helping your country out on its own soil. Complete this mission back to getting prepared for next mission. Deploy to PACOM but a task comes unit has to provide a special detachment of 180 personnel to conduct prison mission in Iraq and need to go through special training before deployment on top of the requirements to do a reg deployment so 180 personnel will have double training to conduct. The next thing that happens during this time is unit is tasked with standing up a 40 person disaster recovery team to relieve the unit they are taking over for in PACOM. The TEAM will deploy to Pakistan north western frontier and Kashmir region of country. So now they need special training like defensive driving skills send to MCMAP Marine Crops Martial Arts Program and more special small weapons handling course concealed carry and other techniques.
The above is one example that we are asking units and troops to do today and they are all different campaigns and deserve some recognition. This shows what we are asking troops to do in todays military so anyone that says they do not disserve recognition or a participation ribbon well you walk in their shoes one time and tell me. I am not taking anything away from WWII or other times we are just asking more of this military then ever before so yes they will have more on their chest and well I do and don't tell me its participation because not everyone does and those that do should get something and yes Valor is higher. My combat action ribbon is on the 3 rd. row of my rack and this is why I did not just wear my top 3,becuase I hold the CAR above some of the others. The others wear earned in high ranking though and disserve to be showed.
Some of these people that are speaking out about this have not or did not serve under these conditions
During WWII they were on tour of duty assigned to that theater fighting that campaign and in doing so would get awarded for that campaign. Now NOT ALL went from Europe to Pacific and in doing so would receive awards and campaign recognition for that AOR. The point being is they were assigned to one mission or operation. I believe that in Europe some got awards for going into each country during certain time frames. This was all for this time nothing else was going on at that time.
This brings us to the Military of the 90's and 2000's. One it is smaller so we are asking more of them. You can have all kind of things going on at one time when this has never happen in this kind of mass mission overload. So you have few carrying a lot of burden in different area around the world and we have not asked our military to do this before.
This is what happens you have Iraq member deploys with unit for 6 months to one year then back home and preparing for next OPORDER or mission. Tasking comes and you work up for AFG different hardships and environment and campaign. Then back to US and an Earthquake happens and this unit is tasked to mobilize its assets and deploy for humanitarian disaster assistance. The country is wiped out no power and roads and bridges are all destroyed. The country needs to be restabilized, bodies recovered, power, roads and bridges need to be repaired in order to bring this country back on line. There is also disorder during this crises and dangers as riots and armed mobs try taking control. This unit completes its mission sent back to train for next deployment. Deployment order comes and it is back to Iraq for different type mission COIN. So then then they do this and complete mission. Then back to US and regroup for next mission. Disaster in US and major destruction of a region in the US and now back to disaster recovery mission set and helping your country out on its own soil. Complete this mission back to getting prepared for next mission. Deploy to PACOM but a task comes unit has to provide a special detachment of 180 personnel to conduct prison mission in Iraq and need to go through special training before deployment on top of the requirements to do a reg deployment so 180 personnel will have double training to conduct. The next thing that happens during this time is unit is tasked with standing up a 40 person disaster recovery team to relieve the unit they are taking over for in PACOM. The TEAM will deploy to Pakistan north western frontier and Kashmir region of country. So now they need special training like defensive driving skills send to MCMAP Marine Crops Martial Arts Program and more special small weapons handling course concealed carry and other techniques.
The above is one example that we are asking units and troops to do today and they are all different campaigns and deserve some recognition. This shows what we are asking troops to do in todays military so anyone that says they do not disserve recognition or a participation ribbon well you walk in their shoes one time and tell me. I am not taking anything away from WWII or other times we are just asking more of this military then ever before so yes they will have more on their chest and well I do and don't tell me its participation because not everyone does and those that do should get something and yes Valor is higher. My combat action ribbon is on the 3 rd. row of my rack and this is why I did not just wear my top 3,becuase I hold the CAR above some of the others. The others wear earned in high ranking though and disserve to be showed.
Some of these people that are speaking out about this have not or did not serve under these conditions
(16)
(0)
LTC Russ Smith
We can get rid of most peacetime service ribbons. Get rid of the "I finished basic training "ribbons., peacetime overseas deployment ribbons, Se serviced appointment revenge for noncombat appointments, NCO professional development ribbon , really a ribbon for finishing school?, I guess the Navy has ribbons for marksmanship instead of marksmanship badges I would get rid of those. Ribbons for recruiting duty, drill instructor, really any service ribbon for anything other than good conduct or longevity needs to go. The metals seem to be okay although I always thought it was interesting to watch the across the board inconsistencies and criteria for receiving an achievement medal or commendation medal on active duty for a noncombat reason. Back in my unlisted days in the Marine Corps I will never forget that at the same ceremony a major general came down and his address and read aloud a letter of commendation for one of our corpsman. The corpsman while out for a long distance bike ride watched a civilian bus go over a cliff . He scaled the cliff . He pulled passengers from the bus and rendered first aid which included splinting some broken bones. No cell phones this was 1982. A letter of commendation. Then at the same ceremony second lieutenant got a Navy achievement medal for doing a really good job running the motor pool. 23 years later when I was in Iraq I watched a full kernel write his own bronze Star medal for service citation, brag about the fact that he wrote it himself, and it was presented to him upon his departure from Iraq. He never left the Green zone for any reason except to leave Iraq. He was a ready reservist and in civilian life a postal supervisor. Given his incredibly horrible personality, nasty demeanor, and generally abusive approach to leadership I completely understand why postal workers go postal. The sky was a joke and the chain of command by rewarding him in such a way made the award system a joke within that chain of command. I would also add that he was fired within two weeks after arriving in Iraq when he was assigned as the aide-de-camp to a three-star admiral.
(7)
(0)
I take a more historical perspective in that today's fruit salad has far less meaning than my Dad's single row. The exception are the top ones. So in reality it doesn't matter if you understand the history of where we were and where we are now.
(16)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
But it does look ridiculous when you don't know. I get so sick and tired of hearing from a press report about a 'decorated veteran.' If we graduate training as an E-1 we're 'decorated veterans.' IT makes a joke of it all.
(2)
(0)
Valor tends to have higher placement that good work Lt Col Jim Coe. The only exception seems to be the ARCOM or other Service equivalent with V device which is lower in precedence than the MSM and Legion of Merit.
The Army award policy varies by unit, post and commander with some being more free in authoring awards for exemplary service and others resisting it.
The Army system also required us to list all prior awards. I found that soldiers who did not have prior awards were less likely to receive an award they deserved. LTC Stephen C. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SGT John " Mac " McConnell LTC Bill Koski LTC Wayne Brandon LTC Wayne Brandon LTC Stephen Conway LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. CPT Gabe Snell SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA COL Mikel J. Burroughs MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell
The Army award policy varies by unit, post and commander with some being more free in authoring awards for exemplary service and others resisting it.
The Army system also required us to list all prior awards. I found that soldiers who did not have prior awards were less likely to receive an award they deserved. LTC Stephen C. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SGT John " Mac " McConnell LTC Bill Koski LTC Wayne Brandon LTC Wayne Brandon LTC Stephen Conway LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. CPT Gabe Snell SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA COL Mikel J. Burroughs MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell
(15)
(0)
LTC Stephen F.
Lt Col Jim Coe - I have a few ribbons for surviving - 3 awards of the national defense service medal and one overseas service ribbon for Cold War service. The army has a few medals which are based on time - the good conduct medal for enlisted service - I have one of those awards and there is a Reserve Service Medal for 10 years of service which I have a mobilization device attached to. All my other awards were either impact (3) or because I exceeded the requirements for a long time 3 to 10 years. I had a number of soldiers who never received any awards during their service while others received a number of awards. Other than valorous awards or time based awards.
IN the Army where you assigned and who are the commanders significantly determines the award policy. I did my best to put deserving soldiers in for awards. One issue I ran into was that we had to list previous awards - no awards sometimes generated a downgrade of the award. I had to fight for a couple of soldiers to get the awards they deserved. LTC Stephen C. CPO (Join to see) 1stSgt (Join to see)
IN the Army where you assigned and who are the commanders significantly determines the award policy. I did my best to put deserving soldiers in for awards. One issue I ran into was that we had to list previous awards - no awards sometimes generated a downgrade of the award. I had to fight for a couple of soldiers to get the awards they deserved. LTC Stephen C. CPO (Join to see) 1stSgt (Join to see)
(6)
(0)
CPO (Join to see)
LTC Stephen F. - Sir, that is a good point. When we turn in awards, like Com and member never received a Nam then it would down grade to the Nam. It's not always a give me thing like some would think. My community as a whole has decided that if you receive a spot award for a certain deployment and mission or operation then you would not receive a End Of Tour. I like that, because I would look at that accomplishment as something I did that deserved mission accomplishment. That being said you could receive two spots depending, because we do a lot of JTF work and JTF commanders would awards them not the battalion commander.
(3)
(0)
SFC Joseph Lumpkins
Sir,
I saw to many times that soldiers were given awards upon a PCS and we as first line leaders had to write the awards even though the soldier did nothing more than show up for work. I also saw that soldiers were given awards based on rank, especially when it came to retirement awards.
I saw to many times that soldiers were given awards upon a PCS and we as first line leaders had to write the awards even though the soldier did nothing more than show up for work. I also saw that soldiers were given awards based on rank, especially when it came to retirement awards.
(5)
(0)
The military now days hands out fruit salad like it's free candy at a parade. I've seen NCO's with more salad on their dress blues than full bird Colonels. Absolutely ridiculous. It's compared to participation trophies for every kid.
(14)
(0)
SFC Joseph Lumpkins
I have to laugh at your comment becasue we had a 1SG in Korea that only had 13 years in and if you looked at his BDUs he wore nothing, but his airborne wings, well our CSM decided that we needed to have a Class A inspection and 1SG Dunwitty showed up and he had so much bling on his Class A uniform that our CSM was actually embarrassed to were his next to him.
(7)
(0)
LCpl Cody Collins
To be fair about your statement when I was in second Marines when President Reagan gave us the green light to shoot back at the Terrorist, After they bombed the building we were using for Barricks we have many PFC’s and Lance Corporal’s come back with more metals than the Company C.O. A lot of young Marines have more kills under their belt than the Vietnam veteran staff NCOs they were under at that time, So it is possible
(3)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
SFC Joseph Lumpkins - I have a former colleague and still friend. He left the Army and returned to the National Guard years later. He showed up at ANCOC and at the first dress inspection had a massive stack form his days in VN, and other places. He got a lot of questioning looks, especially from the CPT and 1SG. That is until they opened his training folder with his 2-1 inside. A fellow friend who was in the same formation said the captain took a step back and rendered a salute!
(3)
(0)
Read This Next


Medals
Ribbons
Valor
Uniforms

