Posted on Dec 6, 2013
Should the USAF and USMC return to the use of Shoulder Patches?
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Shoulder Patches - Unit Cohesion and Pride
Marines
Uniforms
Combat Patch (SSI-FWTS)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
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If there's one branch that doesn't need advice on unit cohesion and pride, it's the Marines.. If anything, we need to be following their lead. They're clearly doing something right...
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LTC Paul Labrador
Of course, I miss the full color patches that we used to wear on our old green Class A's. Wish we would wear full color patches while in garrison and subdued in the field.
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Capt Richard I P.
LTC Paul Labrador,Sir, from the line: "If Marines don't think unit lineage is as important than simply being a Marine, that is their call." I would respectfully submit that the average Marine can tell you more about the history of his unit than the average soldier. We just don't wear it on our sleeves. I do think it is fair to say the average Marine is more connected to the Corps than to any one units' individual history.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Capt Richard I P., I would argue that would depend on the unit you were talking about. Soldiers assigned to the more "storied" units (particularly combat arms) with lots of history are very much in tune with history and lineage. I would agree not so much in support units. Again, I chalk it up to cultural differences. When you see a former Marine's stickers on his care, you typically see an EGA, and that's about it. You see a Soldier's stickers, you'll likely see a skill badges or branch insignia and the unit he was most proud of serving with.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Now we just have to get them to just be proud of being Soldiers... One shouldn't have to be in a "sexy" unit to be proud. That's where the Army fails, being a Soldier is what should matter...
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As for the USMC, I think it would be a bad idea. From day one, a Marine is told they belong to the MARINES, not a unit. Having notations of what unit you are with, would probably not work well, because it would push Marines to feel they belonged to a unit, when the training is all about being part of the whole, and being taught that no matter what you do as an MOS, you know you are first, last and always, a rifleman. The "Bird, Ball, and Hook" is our unit patch you might say, nothing else is needed.
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I actually dislike patches. Part of what makes the Marine Corps uniform so sexy is its elegant simplicity. The Army has patches, cords, badges, two sets of ribbons, a nametag, etc. It looks overly cluttered, which detracts from the overall appearance.
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No thanks, one of the advantages of not having patches is not letting anyone know which unit your with so when you do something stupid you get at least a chance of getting away with it.
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
SSG, knowing the Marine Corps there would likely be a uniform inspection right after checking into a new unit to make sure that patches were squared away.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
You would never get off the Quarterdeck of my ship with the wrong Ship's rocker on your uniform. If you did, the Officer of the Deck (OOD) would have a lot of 'splaining to do Lucy.
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All I will say is that I did get a bit jealous of my Army brethren who were attached to us in Iraq when they were able to wear the "Blue Diamond" First Marine Division patch as their combat patch on their uniforms.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
Years ago I had a MC COL, who had been a Jarhead Arty Officer and wore the Guadalcanal 1st Div patch on his right shoulder. Sailing back he said he realized there had to more to life than this and went med school and joined the Army. He got his in Lebanon when Ike sent them there, he said they got shot at a lot, but did not shoot back very often.
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This is a much better question than asking if the Army should get rid of them.
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SSG Matt Murphy
Nope, not on dress uniforms. Not for a very long time. They do have unit patches on fatigues, but not for formal uniforms.
Here is also a photo of me (top left pic) wearing the FEAF subdued patch (UA) on my fatigues while in the 11sth SF Group, much to the amusement of my fellow troopers. Should actually have worn the 7th AF patch...but I liked the Far East Air Force patch more....totally UA.
Here is a photo of the type of patch on fatigues: USAFSS
...and if you are wondering, yes, we made that gun disappear with 64 lbs of TNT and C4.
Here is also a photo of me (top left pic) wearing the FEAF subdued patch (UA) on my fatigues while in the 11sth SF Group, much to the amusement of my fellow troopers. Should actually have worn the 7th AF patch...but I liked the Far East Air Force patch more....totally UA.
Here is a photo of the type of patch on fatigues: USAFSS
...and if you are wondering, yes, we made that gun disappear with 64 lbs of TNT and C4.
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CMSgt James Nolan
SSgt Murphy, the AF no longer has any patches on the "fatigues" now referred to as ABUs (a hated uniform). With luck, very soon we may go to a common "combat uniform". Common in that it would DOD wide, with service branch identified on the chest.
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I think it would a nice retro tribute to the old school troops who served back in the day.
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I was in US SOCOM in 2011 and the Marines in the growing MARSOC all talked about it. What do you Gyrenes out there think? My Dad was a former Marine then went to Vietnam with the Army. He always told me that Marines did best without name tapes (I remember those days). Here's the former Commandant after some BALLSY Marine slapped that patch on his sleeve. BALLSY MOVE!!!!!!
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No. I like the clean and simple uniforms. Marines are Marines and being separated by unit isn't all that important to me.
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I've seen similar posts on other media sources. I, personally, think the AF should bring back Squadron/Group/Wing/Command patches, not necessarily all but some combination. Now, the AF wears some goofy colored t shirt under their ABU's and claim this is supposed to show unit cohesion. When I was in, the patches showed pride and made you feel you belonged. Some try to bring up the argument that every time they pcs's it cost money due to patch changes or having to buy new uniform items. The cost is minimal and a clothing allowance is given every year so that doesn't hold water. Can't speak for the USMC, but I do know I have seen some of their patches from the past and it would be pretty cool to see on their uniforms. Ribbons and medals tell ones story, but so do patches...if not on their dress uniforms at least on their fatigues (sorry, I don't remember what they are called now a days).
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I don't think the current service dress will look good with a numbered AF patch. Besides very rarely are we in blues anyway. We have patches on our Bags. I suppose one can argue to bring them back to the ABU as they were once on the BDU.
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I'm going to say no. I don't feel that we need to have patches all over our uniforms so people know what we do, where we come from, what training I did, etc. If you want to know that then wait until I put on one of my service uniforms or dress uniforms. Cammies are for work not for showing off.
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The old Air Force BDU. On my left breast pocket is my occupational badge, missileman. On my right above the name tape is the squadron patch, at the time 91 MMXS. On the right breast pocket is the MAJCOM patch, AFSPC at the time, c. 2008.
I miss the patches. Yes! We should bring them back.
I miss the patches. Yes! We should bring them back.
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SSgt John Oldham
The Air Force spent millions trying to determine which uniform would best meet the needs of its people, and while we thank god moved away from looking like flight line SMURFS to where we finally landed I too miss the unity that came from my squadron patches and unit badges. These allowed for a pride in ownership and unity that can only be felt by those who shaped those units. I know I was PROUD TO BE 48th LRS and always will be.
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The Air Force took our unit patches away when we switched from BDUs to ABUs. I and a lot of other NCOs I know miss our patches and wish they'd come back. If for no other reason than it's a sense of pride, morale, and unit cohesion to display the patch of a unit you're proud of.
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I knew the marines had patches for their divisions but I have never seen it worn on any uniforms. The only marine with a Unit patch that I have ever seen was MG Lejeune, He commanded the Army's 2ID for a period of time and was given the patch to wear.
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SSG Matt Murphy
Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Jim Amos - Marine Raiders Patch (not really...read the full story - http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20131209/NEWS07/312090021/The-story-behind-photos-commandant-wearing-Raider-patch )
Why was the Marine Corps commandant photographed wearing a Marine Raider Patch on his dress blue uniform? Short answer: He was punked.
Why was the Marine Corps commandant photographed wearing a Marine Raider Patch on his dress blue uniform? Short answer: He was punked.
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SSG Matt Murphy
Pfc Joe Pagac - USMC Paratrooper
Company C, 1st Marine Parachute Battalion - this one is the real deal
Company C, 1st Marine Parachute Battalion - this one is the real deal
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