Posted on Feb 17, 2017
Similar to the E-2 question, how would you react to a young 2LT who is being unprofessional with a strong sense of entitlement?
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Here's the background. You are an experienced Soldier. You walk in to the commissary to see a young 2LT shopping with a headset on. You professionally and politely get the 2LT’s attention and address the deficiency. They blatantly are rude, dismiss your comment, and tell you that those rules do not apply to him as an officer. Whether you are an Officer or Enlisted, how do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 445
As a fellow officer I would likely lock his heals and professional explain to him that if he does not set the example for his troops do not expect them to follow the rules either. If he persisted I would do as you and ask his Commanders name and the unit he was in.
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When it happened with me (about untrue gossip of my soldier's wife) I told him "Yes Sir, but have you spoken to the old man about it?", saluted then once he stood up and returned it - walked away.
Funny thing was he tried to get me in trouble with the CO about my 'old man' comment. I wasn't privy to the conversation but a couple of months later overheard him telling another new LT that the CO and I were close so not to mess with the Scout Platoon.
Funny thing was he tried to get me in trouble with the CO about my 'old man' comment. I wasn't privy to the conversation but a couple of months later overheard him telling another new LT that the CO and I were close so not to mess with the Scout Platoon.
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Ha ,A young 2LT with a head set on in the commissary,most probably tied to a GPS unit needed to get young 2LT oriented down the maze of aisles found in such places,they do seem to get lost a lot,or was that just in my time?
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"The standard you walk past is the standard you accept." Always worked for me during my 30 year career. An event occurred during my second tour in Iraq. Walking toward the Presidential Palace in Baghdad, I had a Marine Sergeant Major approaching. He looked right at me, an Army Colonel, turned his head and continued as if I did not exist (note, this was NOT a non-salute area). I politely and with respect stopped him, requiring an explanation (of which he had none and acted like, "Who in hell are you to confront me?"). I pointed out proper military courtesy was in full effect and expected him to demonstrate recognition of any Service's senior field grade officers (I was a full Colonel at that moment) with a proper military salute. He ignored my statement and continued as if to walk away...that did it. I demanded his name and unit, and it took a direct order before he reluctantly threw up a half-hearted salute. That attitude and lackadaisical effort earned him a one-way ticket to our Two-star who locked his heels and promised to return him to CONUS if any further demonstration of that type of behavior was seen. A General-level message was immediately issued to ALL CONCERNED about proper military courtesy and we saw no more of that during my remaining time there. Oh, for the record, my father was an E-9 Chief Master Sergeant (Air Force) and my brother was an E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer (Navy) - I had then and still have the highest respect for all Enlisted service members and have no doubt that had the two of them encountered that Marine, he would have lost one half of his back-side to each one of them for exactly that same reason!
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LTC John Wilson
Great way to get back to the states if I didn't want to be there! Sorry for the Marine's conduct, but, usually they are the fines keepers of Military Protocol anywhere!
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I would love to give you the hypothetical I would do this or that, I can only relay MY experience. When I was a young soldier (Army) and training to be a crew chief on Blackhawks, we picked up a couple of squads of infantry on a mission on post (post withheld for identification purposes). They failed to radio ahead they had 12 combat equipped troops. I proceed to secure the troops on my side as my squad leader and flight crew trainer did his side of the aircraft. I return to my window and there sits a shiny butter bar lieutenant in my seat. The pilots radio are we ready to go. I replied negative sir as I'm motioning this lieutenant to vacate my seat, he is vigorously refusing by hand gestures indicating he was staying put. I clicked the Mike and say sir he's refusing to move. My squad leader (E-5) comes around to my side of the aircraft, with one hand unbuckles the lieutenant, grabs the top half of his body with the other hand by the collar of his BDUs, grabs his belt with the hand he unbuckled him with and tosses him over his head about 6-8 feet from the aircraft. He keys his mic tells me to get in, jumped in on his side and says, let's go. We took off with that lieutenant yelling, kicking and shaking his fists at our aircraft. Our pilots radioed to the infantry hq that they might want to send a vehicle to pick up Mr butter bar I'm in charge lieutenant. The lieutenant tried to make something of it, our flight crew had to submit statements. In the end the lieutenant got transferred to another battalion because he lied to his CO. We got an apology from the infantry Battalion Commander and I learned the true power of a Sergeant. The guy was like awesome to me after that.
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I was always the kind of soldier and NCO that knew of ways to throw an insult out that was veiled in a "I think I was just insulted, but I'm not sure."
First, before you make contact, if you have a phone with a camera on it, take an inconspicuous snapshot. You don't want the butter bar (yes, I call any 2LT who is this casual about rules and regs by butter bar) to know you took the shot.
Then, make contact, and if all goes well, save the photo just in case he tries to tell his chain that you were rude to him (it can happen).
If he or she replies in the manner that this 2LT did, then stand there and take it, and when there's a break, with an exorbitant amount of respect and courtesy, pull the photo out and show it to him and let him/her know that you had never heard that the rules and regs didnt apply to officers. Tell them that you were going back to ask your platoon sergeant this they could learn this valuable lesson before they messed up and commuted the same mistake.
Let him know that it is a huge misconception among the enlisted soldiers that this exclusion existed, so your platoon sergeant would demand that you take it to your first sergeant, as well as to your sergeant major because they needed to know as well, because they had taught you for years that officers were supposed to act as a soldier, just as every soldier that wore that uniform.
Then ask him/her if he/she would like to go ahead and let you interview him/her on your phone and tell why they did not to follow direction, because you feel a recording would certainly help in "straightening" out your first sergeant and sergeant major.
Say all of this with a very respectfuland courteaous, and with sincerity. Sell the "I'm not a smart soldier, so I really believe my platoon sergeant needs to know this".
There are so many ways you can accomplish this.
First, before you make contact, if you have a phone with a camera on it, take an inconspicuous snapshot. You don't want the butter bar (yes, I call any 2LT who is this casual about rules and regs by butter bar) to know you took the shot.
Then, make contact, and if all goes well, save the photo just in case he tries to tell his chain that you were rude to him (it can happen).
If he or she replies in the manner that this 2LT did, then stand there and take it, and when there's a break, with an exorbitant amount of respect and courtesy, pull the photo out and show it to him and let him/her know that you had never heard that the rules and regs didnt apply to officers. Tell them that you were going back to ask your platoon sergeant this they could learn this valuable lesson before they messed up and commuted the same mistake.
Let him know that it is a huge misconception among the enlisted soldiers that this exclusion existed, so your platoon sergeant would demand that you take it to your first sergeant, as well as to your sergeant major because they needed to know as well, because they had taught you for years that officers were supposed to act as a soldier, just as every soldier that wore that uniform.
Then ask him/her if he/she would like to go ahead and let you interview him/her on your phone and tell why they did not to follow direction, because you feel a recording would certainly help in "straightening" out your first sergeant and sergeant major.
Say all of this with a very respectfuland courteaous, and with sincerity. Sell the "I'm not a smart soldier, so I really believe my platoon sergeant needs to know this".
There are so many ways you can accomplish this.
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Old school doesn't count anymore. I see crap every day here at Sheppard AFB that I would have stopped 33-years ago.
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MSgt KathyDavid Smyth
As an old AF MSgt I moved into AF personnel for the last 2 years to retire.. I had a 2nd LT try and dominate me. Using my Masters degree in psychology, she for some reason volunteered for 90 days in Saudi. She was there less than 2 weeks when our section chief came and told me she wanted to come back. He stated that I got her back if he let her come back early, but it was my decision. I told him to tell her to have a nice time for the remaining time there. She returned to my neighbors squadron upon her return not knowing that it was already around the officer corp that I "assisted" her in making a career move by volunteering. I was also part of the team that helped build her remedial plan upon return for methods of communicating with SNCO's, even though she was in another squadron. Her 1st Lt bars were held up for a year, which basically killed her career.
I tried to talk to her, but she was an officer: and always right. The other two 2nd Lts I had during that time were great. I was even invited to ones wedding after I retired. Communications and structure assets (NCOs), need to be taught at the academy's and ROTC along with OCS. Experience always wins in a battle over rank!
I tried to talk to her, but she was an officer: and always right. The other two 2nd Lts I had during that time were great. I was even invited to ones wedding after I retired. Communications and structure assets (NCOs), need to be taught at the academy's and ROTC along with OCS. Experience always wins in a battle over rank!
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I would remind the 2LT to correct his infraction. If he still refused or was rude, I would take his name and unit. I would call his first line supervisor and apprise him of the situation. No matter what, you keep it professional and don't take the low road. ***Story time. I was eating in the DFAC at BIAP (US air base in Baghdad) when I notice a SGM with his name tags switched. He was siting with 4 other SGMs. None of them said anything to him. I was a LTC at the time. I went up to him, pulled him aside and told him his buddies were messing with him because they weren't telling him his name tapes were reversed. He thanked me, switched his name tapes, and proceeded to chew out his 4 friends for not noticing. ****Bottom line. Be professional and be persistent. When a standard is not enforced, it is no longer the standard.
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