Posted on Mar 18, 2019
Standing order for battalion of no drinking and daily evening formation in ASUs. Is this authorized?
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I'll be blunt, I like my family time. This affects me and my personal time. I don't drink at all. Some soldiers recently made a poor decision and ended up with their car in a secure area where a death of one of them was involved. They were not in my company and I had no way of knowing they needed a ride if and when they did. Yet the entire battalion now has to deal with every day inspection in ASUs in formation every night for the next two weeks. Can anything be done about this form of mass punishment? Or am I just a S#!tb@g who needs to know his place in the unit and keep my mouth shut about unfair treatment?
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 22
Look at AR350-1, 600-20 and FM 6-22.
Inspection in ASUs every evening from now till eternity..... Check. No drinking..... Check.
The Commander can schedule inspections whenever they want. You folks will by the end of the two weeks be able to disassemble and reassemble your ASUs to standard. I guarantee someone will always be able to find something wrong with any number of Soldiers uniforms at any formation.
The Commander can pull your drinking privileges because you are on regular pass every evening from COB to First call. Part of Pass is the ability to consume alcohol if you are of age. The Commander controls passes.
Would I have recommended this course of action to the Commander... No. If after recommending another course of action to the Commander and being told to drive on would I have executed this course of action with vigor.... Yes.
Inspection in ASUs every evening from now till eternity..... Check. No drinking..... Check.
The Commander can schedule inspections whenever they want. You folks will by the end of the two weeks be able to disassemble and reassemble your ASUs to standard. I guarantee someone will always be able to find something wrong with any number of Soldiers uniforms at any formation.
The Commander can pull your drinking privileges because you are on regular pass every evening from COB to First call. Part of Pass is the ability to consume alcohol if you are of age. The Commander controls passes.
Would I have recommended this course of action to the Commander... No. If after recommending another course of action to the Commander and being told to drive on would I have executed this course of action with vigor.... Yes.
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You are a Soldier 24/7. If the Commander deems to have these formations in ASU's, then the Commander can certainly do so as long as the order is not illegal, immoral, nor unethical. Is it kind of a dick move? Sure, some would see it that way. Is it a way to get a message across to the masses? It certainly is. Will it be effective? Only time will tell. And, it's not about you being a shitbag Soldier needing to know your place, it's about the Commander conveying in a mass blast the message of safety and getting Leaders to get eyes on troops. While the next two weeks will suck, it's only two weeks. As least the Commander didn't make it permanent.
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SSgt (Join to see)
It may give pause. When I was in the Air Force a guy let his roommate take the fall for that guy,s DWI and a few months later, the guy who let his roommate take the fall died while drunk. Karma. Latitude? I am a non-drinker and I would be p*ssed. hahaha, what is an ASU? I am old now you know. lol
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I think you need to deal with it. I don't know all the facts but it sounds to me like there is a Commander here who is trying to emphasize the importance taking care of each other. The needless death of someone under your command is a serious, heart-wrenching issue. I'm sure there were a lot of questions up and down the coc about who could have known, spoke out, taken action, or showed concern prior to this horrible event happening. Whether or not there as something that could have been done really isn't the point though. Your leadership wants to ensure that this never happens again, and part of that is everyone realizing the seriousness of the issue.
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SSgt (Join to see)
MSgt Michael Smith God knows how many people die needlessly. That said, we are held to a higher standard, especially when you have other's back. I am a Meteorologist though and my understanding may be different.
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The Command is well within their authority to do so. The Commander is required to maintain good order and discipline and does this through subordinate officers and the NCO support channel ala AR600-20. How they get there is largely up to them. They can work you 24-7 if the Command deems it necessary to the mission or maintaining good order and discipline (emphasis on discipline). You also don't know what else happened to get here. This didn't happen in isolation. The perception is apparently that your battalion is indisciplined and this is an attempt to instill some pride and discipline. They could have called an alert and rolled the battalion to the field and worked on warrior tasks and drills to enhance discipline and Soldier readiness. Lay in a perimeter, dig fighting positions to standard...recovery them and jump to a new location and rinse lather repeat. You could roll back in after some amount of time, do an all hands thorough recovery followed by a 100% inventory and layout of TA50 followed by a 100% layout and inventory of the organizationally hand receipt. Chow mermited to the motor pool. Profiles craftily assigned duties that do not violate the profile like given a cleaning implement 0.01 oz lighter than their lifting profile or handed a tooth brush to clean temper tents on a creeper so they don't hurt their back. Stress test every Family Care Plan. So it could always Be worse. I'm not advocating for this either, just as likely, it could be this TOO.
Can anything be done?
- Sure, you and the other 1199 guys in your battalion don't screw up as soon as this round is over.
- Take the opportunity to ensure your ASUs are tight
- Take the opportunity to clean up people in your squad whose ASUs aren't tight.
- the next time an Epic story is about to be born, remind them of this unpleasantness.
You may or may not be a sh!tbag. I don't know you, but inclined to think you care so you are likely not a sh!tbag. I would not die in this particular obstacle belt. Take Some initiative and leadership. Get peers squared away. There are so many worse things than ASU inspections for two weeks. Remember this if you are ever a 1SG or CSM. How would you solve the problem(s)?
As for the drinking prohibition, when I was in 11th ACR at NTC! No drinking for the Regiment from last RSOI day until TD14. Every month. Whether you were supporting downrange or not. Also had to do this while on two years of DSCA standby. Two weeks on, two weeks off or on a valid DA31. The Command can easily do this.
I leave you with this. Unless they are serving craft beer and Cuban cigars, this is punishment for ever Leader in the formation too. Someone has to conduct the inspection, lead the inspector through, take down the gigs and follow up on the resolution.
Can anything be done?
- Sure, you and the other 1199 guys in your battalion don't screw up as soon as this round is over.
- Take the opportunity to ensure your ASUs are tight
- Take the opportunity to clean up people in your squad whose ASUs aren't tight.
- the next time an Epic story is about to be born, remind them of this unpleasantness.
You may or may not be a sh!tbag. I don't know you, but inclined to think you care so you are likely not a sh!tbag. I would not die in this particular obstacle belt. Take Some initiative and leadership. Get peers squared away. There are so many worse things than ASU inspections for two weeks. Remember this if you are ever a 1SG or CSM. How would you solve the problem(s)?
As for the drinking prohibition, when I was in 11th ACR at NTC! No drinking for the Regiment from last RSOI day until TD14. Every month. Whether you were supporting downrange or not. Also had to do this while on two years of DSCA standby. Two weeks on, two weeks off or on a valid DA31. The Command can easily do this.
I leave you with this. Unless they are serving craft beer and Cuban cigars, this is punishment for ever Leader in the formation too. Someone has to conduct the inspection, lead the inspector through, take down the gigs and follow up on the resolution.
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CSM Richard StCyr
Sir, you weren't at Panzer Kaserne in Boeblingen Germany circa 1985 were you? "They could have called an alert and rolled the battalion to the field and worked on warrior tasks and drills to enhance discipline and Soldier readiness. Lay in a perimeter, dig fighting positions to standard...recovery them and jump to a new location and rinse lather repeat. You could roll back in after some amount of time, do an all hands thorough recovery followed by a 100% inventory and layout of TA50 followed by a 100% layout and inventory of the organizationally hand receipt"
That's almost verbatim what happened to the 11th HMS when they ruined a 2 year no DUI streak with back to back DUIs with injuries on a Friday and Saturday night.
That's almost verbatim what happened to the 11th HMS when they ruined a 2 year no DUI streak with back to back DUIs with injuries on a Friday and Saturday night.
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LTC Jason Mackay
CSM Richard StCyr no CSM. I had Troop Commanders as an LT who could be pretty creative, stick to METL and make it “hard”.
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Tragic event, but it's a local level thing. I got caught up in a worldwide blast perimeter, Tailhook '91. That had to do with the sexual assaults at an annual convention that the Navy aviators would go to. The sledge hammer was immediate. It didn't matter who you were, or if you ever went to Las Vegas, promotions were held up for all Naval officers until individual screenings could be done. It went on for years. I had to certify under oath that I wasn't a participant or within driving distance of Las Vegas. It was a guilty before proven innocent drill. I watched promotions get delayed/denied for a long time after the screenings because some admin twerk for some reason tossed the paperwork. If you weren't cleared, your name was struck from the promotion list. You got to go to the next board but were above zone, hence had a lower chance. There wasn't much policy on making sure people weren't hosed because it was all about external damage control. Morale was hammered for around 5 years until the Secretary decided enough was enough. A lot of people who were unjustly pushed out are bitter to this day. Obviously it was worse for aviators who were at that convention but committed no crime. Guilt by association ended many of their careers.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Oh yeah I remember that event on the news. I have always been the kind to see alternatives. That said, I remember working in Command Posts and it could be split-second. Easy does it.
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Bad decisions have a blast radius. A soldier under your BC's command died. That is serious business and he is taking it that way. Suck it up and drive on.
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That is not unfair treatment, that is the Army. I remember being called out on alert on a Sunday because the Saturday night before there were 17 DUIs in the battalion. Sucks, but it gets the point across.
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SSgt (Join to see)
CPL Mark Andersen - That is unacceptable. I would expect him to be. 17 chances for death and more importantly the death to innocents. If I were the commander I would be livid. A drunk driver killed my 18-year old cousin.
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Lt Col Charlie Brown SP5 Mark Kuzinski LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C. Maj Kim Patterson Maj Marty Hogan SPC Margaret Higgins MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca LTC Greg Henning SPC Douglas Bolton CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 PVT Mark Zehner PO1 Tony Holland SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth LTC Stephen Conway
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Lt Col Charlie Brown SP5 Mark Kuzinski LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C. Maj Kim Patterson Maj Marty Hogan SPC Margaret Higgins MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca LTC Greg Henning SPC Douglas Bolton CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 PVT Mark Zehner PO1 Tony Holland SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth LTC Stephen Conway
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CPL Mark Andersen
This was in the 80s, as I recall they had a checkpoint at the gate and were checking everyone coming on post. It was not just jr enlisted either. No rank was spared.
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I have used mass punishment before. But it was after addressing unit wide trends, on multiple occasions, where all or most of the Marines in the unit were in a position to address the infraction. The fact that you were conscious that you had no way of knowing leads me to believe YOU ARE NOT A S#!tb@g. But, unfortunately, this falls within commander's prerogative. Just because a CO can, does not mean he or she should.
My recommendation: When you become a unit leader, remember this moment when you are deciding if unit punishment is or is not appropriate. Soldier on.
My recommendation: When you become a unit leader, remember this moment when you are deciding if unit punishment is or is not appropriate. Soldier on.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Maj John Bell I always appreciate looking at both sides. Yes and her is why, and no, because there is a better way or an alternative.
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I appreciate the quick replies, everyone. Thank you for giving clarity on the subject. I'm all for helping a fellow soldier out if they need a ride after being drunk, but sometimes it's just out of my hands I guess.
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SGT (Join to see)
Take it as a learning experience. Bad decisions by a few have bad results for all. It’s better to learn that lesson in Garrison than in Combat,
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
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