Posted on Aug 15, 2015
CPT Jack Durish
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It seems that a vocal movement against any religious expression has found its voice in the military. Should individual service members be precluded from proclaiming their religious beliefs? Is a service member's religious preference still listed on their Dog Tags? Should it be removed? Do enlisted personnel feel intimidated by officers who proclaim their religious beliefs or affiliation? Should they? Should God be excluded from the foxhole or the cockpit? So many questions...

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/08/392644-first-african-american-female-fighter-pilot-gets-shot-saying-god-reason-serves/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=morning-newsletter
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PO2 Steven Erickson
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OK. Here goes...

I, for one, can no longer sit by and allow those whose purport to be advocating tolerance to force intolerance upon others.

Individuals (and groups) are allowed by our Constitution to hold and PUBLICLY STATE whatever beliefs and ideas they deem right. NO ONE - not the government, not the majority, not ANYONE - can prevent an American from these basic rights. Some ideas and beliefs may seem ignorant, wrong and even evil by others, but our Constitution allows those people to hold those beliefs! For example, if there are people who believe that all people of Norwegian descent are evil - as asinine as the rest of the world may see that idea - they are ALLOWED TO BELIEVE THAT, and they are ALLOWED TO SAY SO in PUBLIC! Only if those persons advocate violence or harm can those people be held to account for what they say. Just because I think that the idea of Evil Norwegians is offensive and hurtful DOES NOT GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO SUPPRESS those who think otherwise.

I do not ask (nor demand) that the Atheists or Secular Humanists keep quiet, just because their beliefs "offend me." I do not ask (nor demand) that Atheists or Secular Humanists be stopped from putting up posters and billboards down I-55, just because "it offends me." I do not ask (nor demand) that Atheists or Secular Humanists apologize for what they say or think, just because "it offends me." I do not ask (nor demand) that Atheists or Secular Humanists apologize - as a group - for the actions of one individual just because what that person said or did "offends me."

I have no right - nor Constitutional protection - from being offended. I have no right - nor Constitutional protection - from hearing something that someone chooses to say while in my presence.

Regarding the never-ending battle regarding "Church and State"... the policy of separation of church and state is a good thing. I don't want the state telling me what I can or cannot believe. But separation of church and state is NOT the elimination of the EXPRESSION OF FAITH from the public arena! Whether that faith is Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Polytheism - even "Atheism" (although they all will profess that it's NOT a statement of faith), every American has the RIGHT to profess what they believe. It is what America was created for: So that people could believe and live without control except by their own conscience.

Last time I was enlisted, I didn't swear an oath to give up my basic rights as an American. There are things that I couldn't do while in uniform or in my official role as a member of the US Navy. BUT when I was out of uniform, I could go to church, attend political functions, attend rallies and even participate in those activities. I know... shocking.

This officer - this American - has the right to state what she believes. How dare ANYONE try to stop an American from stating their beliefs!

Tolerance DOES NOT mean ACCEPTANCE. I will tolerate just about anything that anyone has to say - regardless of how offensive I think it is - but DO NOT tell me that I must acknowledge that what those Norwegian Haters believe is as valid and true as what the Norwegian Lovers believe.

I, for one, will NEVER ACCEPT that certain activities and lifestyles and beliefs are true and good. But I will ALWAYS support the right of any American to believe what they want to believe and support their right to say so. (And, as a Christian, I will continue to show love and respect to each and every one of them, EVEN as I judge their BEHAVIORS to be wrong. I believe THAT is what God commands me to do.)

All I ask is that YOU afford me the same...
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SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Jim Ruether
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Well you can't say it in public on Facebook or the content POLICE will bar you from participating for 3-4 days until you learn your lesson. Talk about subtle indoctrination the commies!
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MAJ Keira Brennan
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I guess killing non-believers DOES help glorify God.
Comments from a secular humanist retiree.
Should individual service members be precluded from proclaiming their religious beliefs? DAMN STRAIGHT (don’t want to hear it).
Is a service member's religious preference still listed on their Dog Tags? Yes
Should it be removed? No, my religious preference is: JDAM GBU-31
Do enlisted personnel feel intimidated by officers who proclaim their religious beliefs or affiliation?
Should they? I think they are. It creates (IMHO) a hostile environment.
Should God be excluded from the foxhole or the cockpit? So many questions...
http://militaryatheists.org/
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CPT Jack Durish
CPT Jack Durish
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It seems to me that MAAF is just as much a religious group as are the Methodists, Baptist, Catholics, et al. And I bet you proclaim its tenets with just as much fervor as any member of those. Is anyone denying you that right? Have you created a hostile work environment by proclaiming your atheist views? Have you intimidated those who serve under you who may not share your "beliefs"? So many questions...
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MAJ Keira Brennan
MAJ Keira Brennan
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CPT Jack Durish - you couldnt be farther from the truth. As a secular humanist i have no "creed." I dont use the word "faith" either since i dont "believe" in much either -- nit in supernatural stuff anyhow. I dont proselytize -- but i did tell a junior chaplain from the 173rd ABCT that he was creating a toxic environment. You asked the question and i gave my feedback.
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MAJ Keira Brennan
MAJ Keira Brennan
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MSgt Mike Mikulski - so any comment on that MADISON essay since i was talking about HIM SPECIFICALLY not Jefferson.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
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On a less serious note. I was getting my hair cut on base at PHTH (1959 era) and the barber was a Filipino with strong religious convictions and he was trying to say whether I believed or not. At the time straight razors were used to shave you around your neck, it was flying around my face while he was talking. All of a sudden I believed.
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SFC Everett Oliver
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Sounds to me like the !st Amendment was writen just for her.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
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The First Amendment precludes Congress from establishing a religion, but where does it preclude any individual from proclaiming theirs?
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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CPT Jack Durish Here is my opinion on the subject. I think she is right in her beliefs and by virture of the fact that she served this nation she is supporting the consititution of the United States. I would never call down anyone for their religious beliefs in the military as a leader or Officer. I think this Weinsten character is wrong and if the Air Force regulations are interupted as such then they need to be changed. If I'm getting ready to go on a mission and I ask for guidance and guiding hand from God before I embark is that against regulation. Weinstein is wasting space and air with his comments! Just my opinion!
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
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The 1st amendment and all the interpretations by the legal experts has been expanded by leaps and bounds. All one has to do is read the Federalist Papers to see what the intent of the religious clause was, along with many other expanded aspects of the Constitution. Separation of Church and State seem fairly obvious to me. Never during my military career was there anyone that pressed me to go to Church or not to go to Church. Or any other religious events. Most posts and ships did have religious ceremonies for those so inclined, who knows what happens in today's PC culture.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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MCPO Roger Collins I believe that goes the other way to. In all my service time over 37 years I never denied the rights of soldiers to attend or worship based on their beliefs either! I think it goes both ways and it should never be a question of ones loyalty to the consitution or our purpose in the military! If an individual chooses to serve their country because its their belief that God has called them to serve then so be it. That is just my humble opinion. I serve God, Country, and Family!
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
8 y
Whatever a politician spouts off with doesn't matter at all when Your in harms way in a combat area. Your faith can help You face and get through situations You otherwise may not have. Support for the Constitution and faith can well go hand in hand and no leader has the right to even suggest You abandon any faith You may have or in any way influence what You may or may not believe. These are rights We have fought to preserve ! I sure don't need anyone private or public telling Me what I should or should not believe in when it come to religion nor do I feel I have the right to do that to others either.
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SGT Christopher Churilla
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Edited >1 y ago
Whether or not a Servicemember can proclaim their religious beliefs depends largely on the context. On post or around other Servicemembers it should be avoided, especially if the one doing the proclaiming is in a leadership position, because their proclaiming could be perceived as an attempt to convert others, and religion is the only activity in the military is which participation is completely voluntary.

God absolutely should not be excluded from the Armed Forces because while many do not exercise their religious beliefs, others do. For them, it is what enables them to bounce back from curve balls life inevitably throws at us. They must be allowed to practice it while they serve this country, or they will leave.
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SSG Program Control Manager
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I agree, as an individual they can shout it from the rooftops... in uniform and especially when in a leadership role they are obliged to remember that they are not just representing themselves, they are representing the US government.
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Capt Retired
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I does not. Only the false interpretation than all are free from being offended in any way especially by religion ir prevailing.
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Capt Seid Waddell
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Edited >1 y ago
There is a strong anti-religion movement in the country, and it has gone way off the Constitutional tracks.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." - First Amendment
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SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
>1 y
Capt Seid Waddell Why is it that I never hear of Atheist refusing service to Evangelicals, but I constantly see the religious refusing service to some group or another. Further, I am not 100% sure of the particulars of the religious beliefs of the pilots that flew into the WTC, but I'm betting heavy on them no being Atheists.
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Capt Seid Waddell
Capt Seid Waddell
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SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S., good question. Perhaps because Evangelicals don't try to push themselves where they aren't welcome? As to the WTC pilots, that would be radical Muslims.
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SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
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Capt Seid Waddell Really?
"The Kleins had cited their Christian beliefs against same-sex marriage in refusing to make the wedding cake for Rachel and Laurel Bowman-Cryer. Aaron and Melissa Klein are currently accepting donations through their church, Portland's Lynchwood Church of God." Doesn't sound very Atheist to me. And from what you said, those pilots weren't Atheists either. So all the attacks seem to be coming from religious believers!
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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Edited 8 y ago
I don't have a problem with a person that expresses their belief and how it was important to them. If someone has no belief, well that fine also, its their choice, no one else has the right to decide that for them. I do have a problem with someone though that even when I've told them to back off when they try to force their beliefs on Me. I will and have already made My own choice. When still on active duty I did have one Military member, the same rank as I was then try that more than once, I politely told Him I was not interested and didn't want to hear any more on that subject. Even after that He tried again, I told Him " You ever bring up that subject with Me again I'll punch You in the eye" I have My own religion and I don't need You trying to force Yours down My throat. ! He never did preach or try to convert me again, I just needed Him to leave Me alone. It never went beyond the two of us but i guess a few other guys gave Him a simmular reaction.
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SSG Warren Swan
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This is clearly someone (Weinstein) looking for attention. She did nothing wrong, and wasn't pushing her religion on anyone or forcing anyone to accept her faith. She attributes her success to God, which could be paralleled to someone thanking their 1SG for mentoring them to success. I wish her the best, and if she believes God is telling her to do the mission and come home, more success to her.
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PO2 Skip Kirkwood
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It doesn't.
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