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Over the weekend at a training conference an NCO giving a class on standards and discipline asked the group to stand up. He then asked for everyone to sit down whose back pockets were buttoned. I was not one of the NCO's who sat as I always keep my left rear pocket unbuttoned and tucked in as this is where my wallet is at. He then attributed this as a lack of discipline.
The new AR 670-1 specifically states in Chapter 3 a.(3) that, "Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped."
Now, obviously this is pretty broad as my ACU's were certainly zipped, and looked professional, but technically were not completely 'buttoned'.
Do you fellow NCO's agree that the failing to button even the rear pockets on the trousers actually demonstrates a lack of discipline? If so, do you then inspect all of your troops to ensure that they are complying with this standard? Are all their buttons in the fly area of the ACU buttoned for example? Are yours? When you wear your ASU's do you button the inside button on the trousers?
I'm not fielding this question to complain about being called out... but instead to see what your thoughts are on the discipline thing.
The new AR 670-1 specifically states in Chapter 3 a.(3) that, "Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped."
Now, obviously this is pretty broad as my ACU's were certainly zipped, and looked professional, but technically were not completely 'buttoned'.
Do you fellow NCO's agree that the failing to button even the rear pockets on the trousers actually demonstrates a lack of discipline? If so, do you then inspect all of your troops to ensure that they are complying with this standard? Are all their buttons in the fly area of the ACU buttoned for example? Are yours? When you wear your ASU's do you button the inside button on the trousers?
I'm not fielding this question to complain about being called out... but instead to see what your thoughts are on the discipline thing.
Uniforms
NCOs
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 86
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Things like this are great for BCT. Instills attention to detail and discipline than can have real world applications that are very helpful. One of our guys got called out by some MAJ though for his back buttons being unbuttoned while he was climbing into the gun to roll out, our 1sgt was passing by and heard the MAJ and walked over to the gunner like he was about to yell at him, but just said "I think that major is checking you out, stay frosty out there." Lesson learned... often times there are far more important things to worry about than the status of your buttons.
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i keep my wallet in my right back pocket and a handkerchief i my back left sometimes a pair of wire strippers in one back pocket and a multi screw driver in the other. i never button them
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Joey Damir
t's ok as long as there not ticklish. hate ticklish people and back pockets haft to be buttoned.
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I'm a little bit stuck between it being no big deal and buttons must be buttoned. I never buttoned the pocket that I put my wallet in, and back when we would get our BDU's dry cleaned you would unbutton all pockets so you wouldn't get that little button ring on the outside flap of your pockets. But every single button would be buttoned except for your back pocket that you put your wallet in.
I do remember I had a supervisor that was a T.I. and we had a Captain that would have a bad habit of having his hands in his pockets or his cargo pants pockets unbuttoned or both, and my supervisor would continuously correct him every single time he saw it. It eventually turned into a joke between the two and my supervisor with the Captains permission called him Captain pockets when nobody else was around.
I do remember I had a supervisor that was a T.I. and we had a Captain that would have a bad habit of having his hands in his pockets or his cargo pants pockets unbuttoned or both, and my supervisor would continuously correct him every single time he saw it. It eventually turned into a joke between the two and my supervisor with the Captains permission called him Captain pockets when nobody else was around.
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A former CSM of mine who was a hypocrite of the hugest proportions seeing as he was forced to retire vice being Court Marshaled for an improper relationship with his female "assistant"
This CSM used to say "Selective enforcement is a lack of discipline and makes you a piece of shit NCO"
You would get told that if you had a Soldier that had his sleeves cuffed for ventilation in 120 deg heat in a MP with NO threat of insects, flash burn, ect...
He would say that if he felt the Sm of yours had a "Faddish" haircut, like a high and tight.
He would say that to any NCO he felt was not enforcing the letter of the regulation as he interpreted it.
He was also a lying, fat (way outside 600-9 standards) disrespectful, ignorant (could not write to save his life, it came out like a fifth grader in remedial English summer school class) And of course there was that whole improper relationship with his female "assistant" and cheating on his wife.
Now were was I going here....lol.. Oh ya.... I never lost my mind over a pocket unbuttoned. If I could see it when your standing upright, Id more likely remind you your uniform top was not sized correctly...or, don't forget to button that pocket after you put something in it so it don't get lost.
This CSM used to say "Selective enforcement is a lack of discipline and makes you a piece of shit NCO"
You would get told that if you had a Soldier that had his sleeves cuffed for ventilation in 120 deg heat in a MP with NO threat of insects, flash burn, ect...
He would say that if he felt the Sm of yours had a "Faddish" haircut, like a high and tight.
He would say that to any NCO he felt was not enforcing the letter of the regulation as he interpreted it.
He was also a lying, fat (way outside 600-9 standards) disrespectful, ignorant (could not write to save his life, it came out like a fifth grader in remedial English summer school class) And of course there was that whole improper relationship with his female "assistant" and cheating on his wife.
Now were was I going here....lol.. Oh ya.... I never lost my mind over a pocket unbuttoned. If I could see it when your standing upright, Id more likely remind you your uniform top was not sized correctly...or, don't forget to button that pocket after you put something in it so it don't get lost.
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i feel it is important to keep any buttons that can be seen buttoned. it drive Me nuts to see people with a service uniform jacket that isn't buttoned while its worn, that is being a slob ! The same goes for any uniform jacket. As to the rear pocket I keep Mine buttoned and found it a pain in the butt have a wallet there anyway and took to carrying it in a front pocket. To bad its not money that gives it bulk but then its also not as easy for a pickpocket either if its not in the back pocket.
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I keep my wallet in my right rear pocket and I button it. I think leaving you back pockets unbuttoned is a lack of self discipline. and makes your but look like a slob. it also make you as a hole look less professional and put to gather. I ware cargo pants off duty and I always button the rear pockets. even the one that my wallet is in.
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Those small things are called "Attention to Detail". Remember each and everything you do in the military (and civilian live) is full of small details and paying attention to them means you care. This forum is one. Do you bother to check your spelling, reread your post after posted? If you do, it makes the post easier to read, and shows you are smart enough to do it.
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I think to me it's a lack of caring about rules that don't matter or apply to anything important.
In all seriousness though, it can be looked at as attention to detail. I wouldn't look at it that way as a leader, but some might. I wouldn't go as far as lack of discipline, as I'm against discipline to an extent. I prefer to be a freethinker in actual pressing matters.
In all seriousness though, it can be looked at as attention to detail. I wouldn't look at it that way as a leader, but some might. I wouldn't go as far as lack of discipline, as I'm against discipline to an extent. I prefer to be a freethinker in actual pressing matters.
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Standards are just that. If you are not in compliance, then you're below standard. Not a good place for any SM. Very important that NCOs maintain or positively exceed standards because they are the people the junior enlisted members interact with every day.
BTW the button(s) on the back pocket keep us from losing things accidently. They also provide some theft prevention. A good pickpocket can get past the button, but might choose to skip you and move on to an easier mark--the person with their pocket unbuttoned.
Unbuttoned or unzipped pockets look unprofessional. Same for stuff hanging out of pockets like phones, pencils, notebooks, etc. Get squared away. Set the example!
BTW the button(s) on the back pocket keep us from losing things accidently. They also provide some theft prevention. A good pickpocket can get past the button, but might choose to skip you and move on to an easier mark--the person with their pocket unbuttoned.
Unbuttoned or unzipped pockets look unprofessional. Same for stuff hanging out of pockets like phones, pencils, notebooks, etc. Get squared away. Set the example!
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I live with a similar standard...every zipper on the flight suit is supposed to be zipped. Which practically, would mean fishing out your cover, putting it on, then standing in the doorway while you zip the pocked the cover came out of. Then unzipping it again to fish out your car keys, followed by zipping it again.
It's a de facto standard among those wearing the flight suit to never zip the bottom leg pockets...reg or no reg.
It's a de facto standard among those wearing the flight suit to never zip the bottom leg pockets...reg or no reg.
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