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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
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Edited 2 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
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You did the right thing. CSM was wrong. Unfortunately the Reserves and Army in general have leadership issues where it's easier to sweep it under the rug instead of addressing the problem.
As a (reserve) E6 engineer platoon sergeant and NCOIC on a mission, I was under direct orders from the commander to enforce safety SOPs. While monitoring operations with the unit XO we observed an E5 grossly in safety violation. I stopped the NCO, who was verbally disrespectful, refused to stand at parade rest, and ultimately shoulder checked me and walked off despite a direct orders to stand fast. This occurred in front of the XO, and was reported to the commander and 1SG. Ultimately not only did nothing happen, but this E5 was given an AAM at end of mission.
Poor leadership like this causes damage to moral and operations by the message it sends to good NCOs trying to do the right thing and to the rank and file who watched it. Unfortunately it's not uncommon in my experience.
As a (reserve) E6 engineer platoon sergeant and NCOIC on a mission, I was under direct orders from the commander to enforce safety SOPs. While monitoring operations with the unit XO we observed an E5 grossly in safety violation. I stopped the NCO, who was verbally disrespectful, refused to stand at parade rest, and ultimately shoulder checked me and walked off despite a direct orders to stand fast. This occurred in front of the XO, and was reported to the commander and 1SG. Ultimately not only did nothing happen, but this E5 was given an AAM at end of mission.
Poor leadership like this causes damage to moral and operations by the message it sends to good NCOs trying to do the right thing and to the rank and file who watched it. Unfortunately it's not uncommon in my experience.
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Should have written up your meeting with him and LT as a counseling statement and asked for a Article 15. If your 1SG did not support you than off to see CSM and keep going up chain until someone did their job and backed you up. Can not let that behavior stand.
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First, I would have pulled him to the side and asked is something going on with him maybe personally that is causing him to act this way maybe he is having problems at home that he is felling helpless with and is using his rank to make him feel better. Second, you are and well within your right as a SSG to put the guy in parade rest so the conversation is one sided and if he doesn't follow the LT could at that point gave him a direct order to comply all of this insubordination would have given you more logs for the article 15 fire. But for that guy I would just write as many counseling statements for each event as I could and then push for the article 15 and pull the stripes off of his chest that will always hurt the most and after about the second or third article 15 I would request chapter for this piece of garbage e5 that doesn't deserve to be a leader or part of the Army.
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Off subject but One thing that bothers me, and this is specific to the Army is referring to Soldiers by there pay grade. This person is not an E-5, He is a Sergeant. I had to continously pound this into my Soldiers heads. You would never call a Captain O-3 or your 1SG E-8. However on the enlisted side in the Army this is constantly done for SGT, SSG and SFC very disrespectful.
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I agree with you 100%. This soldier obviously has issues with rank and doesn’t respect rank or what a chain of command is. I am shocked your CSM sided with him.
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It does not appear that you were wrong although I don't nkow what the CSM meant by escalating the event too soon. Even IF that was true, the CSM was completely, and utterly wrong, at LEAST in terms of chastising you in front of the SGT/E-5. The CSM should have BACKED YOU UP in front of the SGT/E-5, and "perhaps" made his [dsiparaging] comments to you one-on-one.
As for him holding the AGR, "to a higher standard," on the contrary! It sounds like he holds him to a much, much lower standard! Sounds more like he simply respects the AGR more than a Reservist NCO and that's total BULL.
It sounds like the SGT/E-5 should have faced some harsh NJP ... at least Company Grade but more appropriate, a Field Grade since he not only disrespected you and a SFC, but an officer, or officers, as well.
I can't imagine what, or why, a CSM would have such a thought process.
At this point, I'd go to your 1SG and ask to see the CO with him/her, AND the LT you mentioned. I'd push for NJP there. After all, the CO has more horsepower than the CSM although CSM's have a great deal of power on their own. I guess it depends on how gutsy, and how much backing you might expect, or not, from your 1SG and/or CO.
Be aware though, that when the dust settles, the CSM is likely to be very unhappy; but hey, sometimes you gotta show people like that CSM where the bear craps.
As for him holding the AGR, "to a higher standard," on the contrary! It sounds like he holds him to a much, much lower standard! Sounds more like he simply respects the AGR more than a Reservist NCO and that's total BULL.
It sounds like the SGT/E-5 should have faced some harsh NJP ... at least Company Grade but more appropriate, a Field Grade since he not only disrespected you and a SFC, but an officer, or officers, as well.
I can't imagine what, or why, a CSM would have such a thought process.
At this point, I'd go to your 1SG and ask to see the CO with him/her, AND the LT you mentioned. I'd push for NJP there. After all, the CO has more horsepower than the CSM although CSM's have a great deal of power on their own. I guess it depends on how gutsy, and how much backing you might expect, or not, from your 1SG and/or CO.
Be aware though, that when the dust settles, the CSM is likely to be very unhappy; but hey, sometimes you gotta show people like that CSM where the bear craps.
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Just to throw my 2 cents into the discussion. I was a Sgt E5 when I got out. The E5 in your post definitely showed disrespect both to his stripes, which he should have never received, the LT should have raked him over the coals for his attitude, and the CSM should have never sided with him. The CSM showed his colors in this matter, but I digress. I like you am old school, way old school. Back in my day, he would have been brought in before the Top for an attitude adjustment, if that did not work, it would then be escalated to the CO, at the discretion of the TOP, for further corrective action. But I do agree with you that he showed disrespect towards you, his fellow NCOs. Chances are good that he will now or does already figure that he can mouth off any time and or place and get away with it, and do whatever he pleases.
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TSgt Carl Johnson
SGT Doug Blanchard You are very likely to be correct in your assessment of the unruly AGR. However, he will eventually get too cocky in front of the wrong person, and it will bite him on rear, thus vindicating the OP. Hopefully, it will also draw the necessary attention to the CSM and his inability to lead properly.
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I would have set the NCO down and had a talk with him. Then if he wouldn't listen take him to the Platon SGT. and if he kept up his disrespect take him to the !SGT> after that then bring in the PLT Leader. if he disobeys the officer you write Article 15 on this NCO. I don't care if he's an agr status.
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