Posted on Mar 27, 2015
Wearing Unauthorized Patches/Flags while deployed?
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On deployments you may see some uniform variations that would not be seen while stateside. One of them is the wearing of patches. Do you or have you seen this while you were deployed. If you were working with another nation's military would you wear their flag on your uniform as a sign of partnership? Can this get carried away or is it a means to show some motivational patch? Should be strictly adhere to our regulation even while deployed?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 97
What a load of crap. Most people against it have never served as advisors, which, by the way, is in another zone of military service. Everything you do or don't do is based on establishing, building, and maintaining rapport. I have seen some stupid stuff in my time but the regular military's view towards what is important for their advisors is a special kind of stupid. This is why AAR's and Lessons Learned is a joke. I fought in Vietnam and served as an advisor in Afghanistan. Nothing learned was carried forward from Vietnam except by a few of us dinosaurs and what's really stupid is that we're still discussing this fourteen years after this war started. The whole thing about beards was a big problem for the rear echelon military leaders then but they never spent a night in an ANA camp or went on patrol with them. All the senior NCO's that are pissing and moaning about 670-1 should retire and do something useful with their lives.
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The exchange of uniform flags is something of a tradition for those working with allied nations. I have done this on my last three deployments. I tipipcally exchange flags with a commanding officer after we have developed a bond. I wear the parented flag under the US flag in place of a combat patch. This symbolizes our command bond, our unity, and support one another. The wear of the flags show that our first allegiance is to our nations and displays our partnership. My NCO's would tipically do the same with their respective counterparts.
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Wearing another country's flag seems strange to me. We're no more Afghani than they area American. I have seen plenty of motivation or comedic tabs and patches over the years. Most of the time they're worn under the collar or pocket flap. For some reason Cav Scouts in particular have a thing for "recon" tabs. As long as it's not visible on the uniform I don't care what a troop has under his pocket flap.
With that being said, I've also seen all sorts of jackassery that went way too far. Nametapes like "Bubba" and "Borat" and other ridiculous "sew shop" specials. I saw a CPT who had miniatures of his 5 authorized SSI-FWTS patches made and wore them all simultaneously. Standards shouldn't change just because we're deployed. Double standards have yet to work out in our favor.
With that being said, I've also seen all sorts of jackassery that went way too far. Nametapes like "Bubba" and "Borat" and other ridiculous "sew shop" specials. I saw a CPT who had miniatures of his 5 authorized SSI-FWTS patches made and wore them all simultaneously. Standards shouldn't change just because we're deployed. Double standards have yet to work out in our favor.
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CPT (Join to see)
I like the miniature patch idea. It just seems so wrong I don't know why you would do that. I bet he felt like he was a bad ass though.
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MAJ (Join to see)
He was a bit of an odd duck to be honest. This was the same guy who wore a the shower cap looking thing you buy in the PX under his helmet. I knew him fairly well and I asked what the deal was with the patches. Apparently he just wanted to stir the pot in the TOC. Apparently things got pretty boring as the night Battle Captain.
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The psychological effects in building long lasting partnerships can sometimes for the sake of coalition building supersede regulation. An unwritten rule I'm sure but the benefits purely outweigh a simple violation.
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CPT (Join to see)
At least someone said this. There is some validity to this but it runs counterculture to our regulations.
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CSM (Join to see)
I agree to some extent but, if you cannot build a relationship and trust with your partner without wearing their patch/flag...you're doing it wrong.
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CSM Richard Montcalm
Alterations and allowable changes to regulations, for the sake of mission accomplishment are usually put in writing to protect the person doing such from a tsunami of on the spot corrections when they are around units that do not fall under those orders. Most SF ODAs that I saw on Kandahar would clean up and only wear a name tag, US Army and a SF Unit patch when they were in the area/DFAC/PX. It seems the greatest violators are the folks that have a 'need' to look cool...YMMV
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I've seen it, but I would never do it. If I wanted a patch, I just kept it for my personal collection and kept my work uniform to how it's supposed to be.
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I do not believe that we should be wearing unauthorized anything. We are the US Army (or applicable service) and there are rules for a reason. Wearing unauthorized anything looks bad upon us for anyone that knows our rules. We are not groups of private army running a muck, doing what we want. Doing what we want does not conform to what we stand for, and does not help our discipline at all levels.
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I have work in Peru (South America) and in Afghanistan as combat adviser and I wore the flag of that country in order to build the partnership that is nessesary to acomplish the mission.
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We've been bombarded with nearly 100 changes to the uniform composition from material of the acu to the development and issue of the asu. I've witnessed so many uniform violations that I would rather our Soldiers wear it correctly before adding ANYTHING else to it.
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I put my vote to the Regs..which was the answer most closely related to my opinion. The DA Pam 670-1 covers the combat uniforms for field use. I don't remember it spelling out anything about combat uniform accessories/accouterments (remember chocolate chip uniforms with woodland camo pouches and olive drab flak vest?).
What AR 670-1 does cover is:
22–13. Badges not authorized for wear on Army uniforms
a. Badges awarded by States and other jurisdictions inferior to the U.S. Government, except as provided in DA Pam 670–1 for ARNG Soldiers in their State status.
b. Badges awarded by jurisdictions inferior to foreign national governments.
c. Badges awarded by foreign civilian organizations.
d. Foreign military badges, except as previously authorized.
e. Marksmanship badges awarded by other U.S. Services.
f. Locally authorized badges.
Will troops still wear stuff they shouldn't? - hell yeah! I would wear my next rank under my pocket flap as motivation.
What AR 670-1 does cover is:
22–13. Badges not authorized for wear on Army uniforms
a. Badges awarded by States and other jurisdictions inferior to the U.S. Government, except as provided in DA Pam 670–1 for ARNG Soldiers in their State status.
b. Badges awarded by jurisdictions inferior to foreign national governments.
c. Badges awarded by foreign civilian organizations.
d. Foreign military badges, except as previously authorized.
e. Marksmanship badges awarded by other U.S. Services.
f. Locally authorized badges.
Will troops still wear stuff they shouldn't? - hell yeah! I would wear my next rank under my pocket flap as motivation.
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Unauthorized patches and other items of distinction are a long tradition in the U.S. Army. Combat commanders knew that. Major William O. Darby held a contest among the 1st Ranger Battalion and the Ranger Scroll worn to this day was the result. Of course, it was unauthorized at the time.
BG Frank Merrill did the same in Burma and the Marauders chose a patch that is today the unit crest for the 75th Ranger Regiment. It has the colors of the various combat teams of the Marauders except for Khaki which was represented by the khaki uniform they wore at that time.
Both of these leaders took a chance with their careers for the sake of the morale of their men. Remember, Darby was serving under Patton in North Africa and Sicily. Patton would fine a man for not wearing a necktie in combat.
It is a good idea for a CO to do something like this, especially if the morale is low. Stupid patches like pork eating crusaders are a no-brainer except for those deficient in that area. Of course he has to have the courage and skill to do so, but if he doesn't, then why is he even there?
BG Frank Merrill did the same in Burma and the Marauders chose a patch that is today the unit crest for the 75th Ranger Regiment. It has the colors of the various combat teams of the Marauders except for Khaki which was represented by the khaki uniform they wore at that time.
Both of these leaders took a chance with their careers for the sake of the morale of their men. Remember, Darby was serving under Patton in North Africa and Sicily. Patton would fine a man for not wearing a necktie in combat.
It is a good idea for a CO to do something like this, especially if the morale is low. Stupid patches like pork eating crusaders are a no-brainer except for those deficient in that area. Of course he has to have the courage and skill to do so, but if he doesn't, then why is he even there?
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CPT (Join to see)
I see what you are getting at. Although their patches were not really sanctioned by the Army. But they were still a common within that unit. I would consider this similar to the 101 and their cards. But I wouldn't put this on par with soldiers putting on individual patches on their uniforms or flags.
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1LT Richard C.
On my first assignment, we wore strips of BDUs like a rag top tied off to our Kevlar cover. Very distinctive, and I am certain it wasn't in any Army Reg..like our Stetson's for the Cavalry, traditions all have to start somewhere.
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You want to show partnership while deployed to AFG... wear your ISAF patch.
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I have worked Civilian/Military Operations before and I voted for "It can be helpful when building a partnership with another nation". I have not worn unauthorized patches though, but I have seen non-standard uniforms and facial hair with Soldiers doing this kind of work.
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I can see the point of the results. In the cold war we traded all kinds of things with the Germans, British, Canadian, and French. We wore some of the items in the field and it did help the team effort with our national counterparts. After field exercises it was back to AR670-1.
I spent about 4 years in Iraq, Kuwait and Qatar. I would say the troops were very well disciple in the wear of the uniform. Vietnam and Cold War soldier had a lot more crazier stuff going on the helmet, web gear and boots. In some cases we went a little out of control. Meaning going native. So is harmful, no. Should a commander and senior NCO work with it and make boundaries, sure. I am glad this topic is being talked about.
I spent about 4 years in Iraq, Kuwait and Qatar. I would say the troops were very well disciple in the wear of the uniform. Vietnam and Cold War soldier had a lot more crazier stuff going on the helmet, web gear and boots. In some cases we went a little out of control. Meaning going native. So is harmful, no. Should a commander and senior NCO work with it and make boundaries, sure. I am glad this topic is being talked about.
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Last time I was deployed, I was only allow to wear my unit patch, my"war" patch and the U.S. flag. With that said I wouldn't wear another nation flag for one simple reason I am an American in the United State Army.
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No I would not I'm a U.S Solider there for I only wear the patches and flag that go on my uniform. If you read AR 670-1 it doesn't say I can wear a different nations flag on my uniform and I never will
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Last I checked I'm in the U.S. Army, and the regulation is literally black and white. You shake hands or break bread to broker friendship.
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I personally didn't wear another nations flag on my uniform while deployed but I did however wear a "give a fuck meter" patch that was always on empty.
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My guys had different random patches but I only allowed them to be worn under their pocket, out of sight. If they wanted to show someone, that was ok. But then it was back under wraps. As for other countries and us displaying their flag on our shoulder, I believe that is a no go. We are already there in support of their mission and country, there should be no need to display their flag on our uniform.
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Where the soldier in the picture is wearing the Afghan flag, we wore a patch with Afghan and U.S. flags on my first deployment to Afghanistan and an ISAF patch on my second. Everybody wore it and I never heard any complaints, but I think there is a different attitude between people who work with locals all day, every day, like ETT's, and people in line units, who mainly work with Americans.
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There used to be a saying:
"No combat ready unit ever passed inspection, No inspection ready unit ever passed combat."
"No combat ready unit ever passed inspection, No inspection ready unit ever passed combat."
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CSM Richard Montcalm
You never served in the Ranger Regiment then- they live by the Ranger Creed and maintain their standards in and out of combat zones- period...
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SPC David Hannaman
Maybe so sergeant major but I hung out with plenty of Rangers at Fort Campbell that had problems making AR670-1 standard even outside of a combat zone. ;-)
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CSM Richard Montcalm
Thee are no 'Rangers' at Fort Campbell- there are Ranger Qualified personnel there and former members of the Ranger Regiment. To be referred to as a 'Ranger', you should be a current or former member in good standing of the Ranger Regiment- the Ranger Tab is a result of a 58 day course- being a Ranger is a lifestyle that few are willing to sacrifice for...
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