Posted on Aug 16, 2017
CPL Metal Worker
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Apologies for my terrible English. Here is the question broken down and explained in what I hope is in better terms.
The situation is that a soldier was given a false pt score by a previous NCO for whatever reasons that he had. The soldier has now changed duty stations and was promoted to Sgt rank. She has not been pinned yet but took a diagnostic pt test and failed the pt test. Now the question is being raised about her really having a 300 pt score and she is scared and has been scared to say anything about the changing of her records. My question is what can she do as for this to not effect her career in a negative way? Especially in light of her not declining the promotion. I do understand that myself knowing what is going on and not saying anything can put me in the same boat as her. I know the wrong answer is to not say anything but what's the best way to go about doing something if anything to minimize the amount of damage done to her or multiple people's careers?
Edited 8 y ago
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CPL Glynnda White
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That soldier needs to take on a mantle of leadership and report the score....she should have done it the day she received the score. She should retain her rank and get her butt in shape to get that 300 and then apply for that promotion again....integrity in this case is more important than career....that is what GROWN UPS do...
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LTC David Harrison
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Seems the time to address this "without negative impact on her career" has passed.
Anyone, anyone, anyone, everyone, everyone, everyone in the military KNOWS the right thing to do was report it immediately when discovered, and have it corrected. The very day it was discovered.
It appears this soldier was perfectly fine with a 300 score on her record until she was found. Now she's scared because she effectively lied, fraudulently took some that she did not earn or produce.
That soldier does not deserve a promotion. That soldier does not deserve to be an NCO.
I would not want to serve with such a person. She was wrong, the time to admit it was the day she knew it.
She should have negative consequences, this soldier lacks integrity and professionalism. She should be happy to be busted back to Private, then learn honesty, leadership, integrity, honor & selfless service the hard way from the ground up.
Alternatively, if she can't accept responsibility for her own compromised integrity, then she needs to leave military service. We don't need people like her.
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MSG Reid Zohfeld
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This is a great topic If you know for a fact that the PT test was fixed then you should say something But You better be right
Second how did you come across this information If you where told or did you look at the training records both come with consequence 1 word of mouth which is not facts 2 Looking at someone’s personal information with out permission
I was in a unit in 05 when we took are PT test before being mobilized This was haunting for many The unit had 12 Col 75 LTC and 75 Maj and 30 capt and below NCO SIDE 12 CSM AND 30 E 8 and below
Top heavy rank
With out proof I would say most could pass height and weight or the PT test
So when we took are PT test it was a sight
12 Lines 1 grader 1 counter 1 Col 1 Csm
The same with those who needed to be taped
Just before the orders where received there was a retirement ceremony where that formation was bigger than the ones who passed their PT test
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MSG Thomas Currie
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What SHE can do is PASS the next PT test. -- That is the ONLY thing that would have any chance to "not effect her career in a negative way." There is nothing she can do now about how she got into this situation. If she passes the PT test and performs her job well, there is a good chance that the new chain of command will ignore whatever happened at-another-time-in-another-place.
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SPC Gary Welch
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Well the NCO who falsified her pt score needs to be punished her COC needs to be punished for sending a soldier to the board that didn't qualify for the board she needs to be punished for going along with it and who cares if it damages her career if she takes a promotion that she didn't earn or deserves then she needs to have ucmj taken on her
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LTC Ken Connolly
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She has already been promoted?
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LTC Ken Connolly
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Are you her squad leader? Why did she take a diagnostic PT test...medical condition maybe? If you are her squad leader or training NCO, then you must raise your observation. If not, then why are you the only one concerned? Too many questions to properly answer the situation raised by the CPL. Basically, it is a matter of self assessment of the benefits and risks of raising the issue up the chain. Just make really sure you have the solid facts to support your complaint.
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SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret
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Do the right thing. That is your duty and responsibility.
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SGT Frank Pritchett
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This act is intentional, when this Soldier knew the score was wrong they had a chance to correct it; but I have seen this before on the good-ole-buddy situation and is common. Once this done it can't be corrected and reflects on the integrity of the Soldier. the issues has to be resolved and hiding it is not going to make the situation any better.
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CW3 Terry Gile
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Your obligation is to inform the chain of command. As others have pointed out there is no solid evidence against the soldier, so the commander should ensure that a preliminary investigation is conducted to determine if in fact the 300 APFT score was fraudulent. Did something occur that could have had an impact on the soldier's performance? A physical or medical issue, or change in environment due to the PCS -- elevation or ambient temperature changes could have effected her ability to perform.

If it is determined that the score was falsified the commander should make a decision based on the overall performance, efficiency and value of the soldier to the service. (Personally I would recommend revocation of the promotion and letter of reprimand at an absolute minimum --- assuming the soldier is an outstanding asset in other respects. Otherwise "hang her high"!) Additionally if it is determined that the score was falsified the chain of command of the NCO responsible for the falsification of her official APFT record should be informed so that they can also take appropriate action.

Liars are as bad as barracks thieves, for they steal the truth from us.
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MSgt Donald Graves
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The truth shall set your free.
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SFC Roger Hudson
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Falsifying a record to achieve monetary benifit should be dealt with immidiately as criminal. Investigate immidiately. Integrity must be kept in US Army.
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SFC Kenneth Hunnell
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Going by what you said, she already told on herself by not coming close to the 300 pts from previous APFT. Failing the following one says it all, unless she all of a sudden got injured, you didn't say anything about any injuries
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SPC Americo Garcia
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Let's do an initial pft to see if you can still do 300 cause corporal course or no school is going to be impressed. So were taking the top pfters and see where they sit so after the promotion we can get them in a bit quicker to school. Play it that way it's not forcing anyone. But just a recheck and involve others who were top and pormoteable. To assure it is not a fluke. I had to prove I could do pullups for First Sgt. Since I was minimum on pullups to be a LCPL. No shame in proving if you can do it. Or have her suction as a whole do an initial pft. We had them all the time besides at Marines were always ready to do it for promotion. RAH!
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LTC John Wilson
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Man up, come clean about the false score. And decline the promotion. Integrity will earn her more support than lying.
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1SG Retired
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Step 1. Invent time machine.
Step 2. Use time machine to travel to moment before the decision was made to conspire to defraud the Army and violate Army values.
Short of that, the "SGT," needs to contact JAG for a legal opinion and options.
I'm not certain that you have a legal obligation to report this, it's the moral dilemma that you need to work through.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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You have no role since she is in another unit now. Your previous role would have been to speak up when it occurred. You should in fact identify the person who assisted her and let your unit take care of that issue. She is wrong, as is the person who supported this act in her records prior to her PCS move. The good news is that she failed and will not be pinned if she does not pass. If her 1SG is in there job, he or she will realize their was something hokey with records and contact the losing unit, and from there connect the dots and bring about a fair and equitable solution for all who were complicit, including you. It does not take a genius to figure out that someone who recently scored 300 should not fail a subsequent test. What you may want to do to help your friend and you to get ahead of this is to tell her to come clean on the other side.
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SPC James Moya
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A great leader motivates. A good manager, organizes. I cannot say that this person is a good manger or organizer because the soldier obviously failed to plan for the APFT. I also cannot say that this soldier is a good leader either, because there appears to already be a lack of confidence from those concerned. From experience, I watched 15 people at Fort Hood all receive article 15s and rank reductions for cheating on their education records to score points under the old promotion system. I can tell you that your soldier not only deserves to lose rank, but also deserves to receive an article 15. What this soldier did was take a promotion away from an otherwise already qualified solder. Integrity means doing the right thing even when no one is watching. This does not mean that this soldier cannot bounce back. Some of the best leaders I've known in the Army have been demoted at least once, and these folks learned from the error, bounced back, and came out even stronger because of it. If you are looking for a way to whitewash this, you too are running the slippery slope of failing as a manager and a leader. Always remember one thing, no one fires or demotes a soldier. The soldier fires or demotes themselves.
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Maj Robert Lang
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She committed a fraud on everyone between her actual score and what was recorded. At a minimum she should lose the current promotion and on more stripe. The turd who lied for her, he needs to be fully investigated to see what favors he took from her, and then get a Big Chicken Dinner.
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SGT Josh Moyes
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Put the turd back in her pocket. This is her mess to clean up. If she doesn’t do the right thing, then she is the turd and flush her. No integrity; no promotion. Simple.
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