Posted on Oct 23, 2015
SSG Timothy Sharpe
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What is it that the cadre and policy makers in NCOES schools think they are accomplishing by suppressing 240 years of culture. Secondly, I don't know of anyone who after the school was like "oh I better not cuss now I'm a warrior leader"
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SGT Bryan O'Reilly
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Edited 10 y ago
I would echo what the rest of the guys say. Profanity is just excess verbiage and it can muddle your commands I want a block of instruction delivered as quickly and concisely as possible. especially during a fire mission because lives depend on it. It also makes me seem less in control if I am always cussing at my people. I am in the habit of confirming every instruction I give. I give a guy an instruction, ask if they understand and then have them repeat it back to me. This is a great tool for ensuring your people understand you the first time.
I never argue For the same reason. Control. NCO's who routinely argue with pvts have no business in command.
I also kept a bucket and a scrub brush on my desk, symbols of how you would spend your spare time scrubbing 5 ton trucks if you want to be a hardcase
Like it ior not part of our job is politics. That means we have a side that staff sees and a side our battles see. I want my command to know I am in control and not a hot head. Screaming at people unnecessarily is for illiterate weaklings IMO
I can dress someone down pretty quick without ever swearing, but there is a time when it is appropriate. And that's when it needs to carry power. Use your best judgement sarge, But I like to praise my people as much as possible, cause heaven help them when they do get me cussing
Your pal,
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CW3 Vernon Messer
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Sergeant, you identify a problem that started on the college campus where campus thought and speech police reign supreme. By forcing females into Infantry, Rangers, Special Forces in an effort to eventually get a female Combatant 4 star Commander and/or a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the cultures of these units and organization will be forced to change their modes of operation. This will be the cost of doing business. Also, there is a parallel progressive effort to generally neuter the male in our society. Look at TV commercials, magazine ads, et al. The US male is always the dummy, the weak kneed idiot, or the fall guy. Welcome to the world of political correctness...and it's coming from the top.
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SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
>1 y
"By forcing females into Infantry, Rangers, Special Forces ........" Excuse me, she said with as much composure as possible - sir I feel you are rated for a cuss put down - but I'll try to be a lady about it and say, "You stink."
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CW3 David Covey
CW3 David Covey
>1 y
Facts hurt sometimes, SSG.
I have no problems with females doing anything they are capable of doing as long as the standards are met and not changed to allow for those who are not capable. If being an artilleryman requires the loader to hump 100 lb shells for 30 minutes straight is the standard, then in order to allow a female into the MOS the standard is changed to 50lb rounds, obviously the standard has been changed for the purpose of putting her there.
I think your attitude is misplaced about females and their capabilities, especially in combat arms, special forces.
As Clint Eastwood once said, Ya gotta know your limitations.
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SGT Tim Fridley
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I have used some colorful language in my day but no need for it when instructing troops or giving briefings ect. That is counter productive
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CPL Richard Flagg
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When I went to PLDC now WLC in 90' at Fort Sill's NCO Academy; I remained professional and all that til that REMF fhrew the PRC-77 off his for being "Too Heavy." Then I just had to lay into his weak ass for potentially breaking our commo. The instructors laughed and chuckled at my On The Spot Correction.

It's too bad that times have changed since the PC Sensitivity Police have taken over. Come on our jobs are to kill the enemy not take him out for coffee at the local Starbucks or coffee shop.
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CPL Glenn Cariaga
CPL Glenn Cariaga
10 y
sorry, but the army's mission is changing. the army is being used for policing and for COIN operations. that means taking out the enemy to the local chai shop.
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SGT Scott Henderson
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Probably something to do with "being professional". Personally, I don't think anything motivates soldiers in training better than "MOVE YOUR FUCKING ASS!!!!"
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1SG Patrick McKelvey
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Edited 10 y ago
Good grief people! Are you seriously this wrapped up in verbiage that the term "Profession of Arms" means that my language can create such an intolerable environs that you are non mission capable? It's very strange to me as I prepare to retire that we are so enamored of the linguistics of professionalism that oft times we are forced to forego actual training in the profession of finding, fixing, closing with, engaging, and destroying an enemy (much less the intricacies of COIN which is or should have been our bread and butter for the last 10 years but alas that is another topic altogether) the ARMS part people. . Several millennia ago I was in a course where we had "senior Students" as peer instructors and one of them overheard me use the dreaded F-bomb. She proceeded to lambast me for the better part of 10 minutes on how unprofessional I was and how in her estimation I would be a danger as a soldier and a disaster as a leader because "Profanity is a weak mind expressing itself." That resonated with me because a) it was a rather pithy remark and b) my original statement was " who the f#@k taught you to set this claymore up so you can read it from your foxhole?!" My point here ladies and gentlemen is there is a place for everything and right now after 13 years of combat and an ongoing and apparently never ending battle with limited training dollars, soldiers who cannot come into compliance, leaders who are suffering paralysis thru analysis and an ever expanding administrative choke hold on our training hours it's my F#@KING language that is at issue here?
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COL John Hudson
COL John Hudson
10 y
I don't have a problem with the idea there's a time and place for everything. Out in the Field is one thing, bringing the Field into a mixed gender professional setting is another. I do have a problem with those who can't tell the difference and conduct themselves accordingly. So does UCMJ.
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SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
10 y
when i was younger and in the field i had a "potty mouth" according to my mom. But, as i got older and wiser i learned other words that could equal the same thing but not be offensive.
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1SG Patrick McKelvey
1SG Patrick McKelvey
10 y
Apologies, perhaps some of you did not or cannot see the frame of reference in my vignette nor the overarching theme in my message due to a tunnel vision on "professional language" discourse. Perhaps I should clarify... I have a foul mouth. That is to say, I have a disproportionate use of verbiage that my Grandmother would have been forced to take unbridled umbrage over should I speak that way at the Family Sunday dinner table, and in that environment that punctuative language would have been unnecessary and counter productive. That said, my grandmother would NEVER have been stupid enough to TEACH someone to emplace a Claymore mine with the words FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY facing towards themselves. And should she have made such an error she would not have hidden her NEGLIGENCE behind the bullshit of a diatribe on how language is more important than ACTIONS. I may not speak "professionally" at all times but I damn sure carry my responsibility for teaching, training, molding, and mentoring those soldiers around me to the standards that will keep them alive and accomplish missions like millstone around my neck. And I will not now nor ever apologize for asking an NCO or Officer what the FUCK they are doing training soldiers like that. I stand by my product and that is competent trained soldiers of any rank and any MOS that I have worked with or for, I have been a trainer for 20 years and I stand by the philosophy of its not the language its the message and the RESULTS. Besides, I overhead a SSG say recently, " oh hell, Top is pissed. You can tell 'cuz he's all quiet and shit." Great news for me, she gets it and I now have a subordinate who is going to correct the deficiency without me uttering a word offensively peppered with profanity or not.
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1SG Patrick McKelvey
1SG Patrick McKelvey
10 y
1LT James Clarke - 1LT For The Record: I was neither inner city ( more Country club and prep school) nor country boy ( Ft Hood broke me of that however, due to the unavoidable excess of Country Music for which I have acquired a taste for) , and I did drop out of college to join the Infantry. Best decision ever!
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SFC Rodrick Carter
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Well first off, using profanity is totally unprofessional. Even though profanity is used by the majority of people in uniform, it doesn't mean it needs to be used in NCOES or any other professional setting. The first line of the NCO Creed is "No one is more professional than I." That should sum it up for you right there.
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CPL Terry Whalen
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If a person in a leadership position feels the need to swear in order to solicite a proper response form a fellow soldier than they need to become a better leader, because they are lacking the proper skills necessary. It's shows a complete lack of respect and gentleman qualities that is sorely lacking in today's leaders and that goes from the top down. Whatever happened to decency and professionalism.
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1LT John Unden
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I have to agree with you Sharpie. We need more action and to stop making useless rules. Officers are supposed to be gentlemen, so I can see us pulling back on our own vocab (a little) for the public eye and to set a better example, but Enlisted and NCOs need to be able to do what it takes to get the job done and get the message across. I used to be enlisted and an NCO so I've seen, given, and taken from all sides. We are all in the business of winning wars, not sending people to the middle school principal's office.
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PFC Janice Mayer
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First sentence of the NCO creed. NO ONE IS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAN I. Last sentence of the NCO creed. I WILL NOT FORGET, NOR WILL I ALLOW MY COMRADES TO FORGET THAT WE ARE PROFESSIONALS, NON-COMMISIONED OFFICERS, LEADERS! Cursing is not necessary to convey a message. As soldier we -mostly-all curse, but, you are no longer an ordinary soldier, you are now a leader, role model, and mentor of others. Be the professional that you have earned the right to be. And don't give me that "I'm infantry, I'm combat arms crap- (I can curse with the best of them), I don't need you to say the F-bomb to know I have to do the job you say.
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MSG Chuck Pewsey
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About the time I was in basic, Linden Johnson outlawed cussing - screwed up some great Jody calls.
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SSG Squad Leader
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There is a standing order from General George Washington that states as a soldier and a professional you should refrain from using profanity in and out of uniform. It gives the wrong image not only of yourself but also of the ARMY and America.
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MSG Jim Gawne
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Sergeant Sharpe - when I went through the NCO Academy 40 something years ago (which later became PNCOC) there was no rule against profanity. It just wasn't used, either by students or cadre. This continued through ANCOC and First Sergeant's School. There is no need for profanity in speech or writing, other than to shock or surprise. Tone of voice and an expanded vocabulary will do the same, without shocking or insulting others. Good luck to you in your career, and try to keep those unnecessary profanities out of your speech.
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SSG Robert Spina
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A FEW PEOPLE COMMENT THAT PROFANITY IS UN PROFESSIONAL AND IT IS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD BUT ON THE BATTLEFIELD THATS ANOTHER STORY JUST A REMINDER ONE OF OUR NATIONS GREATEST LEADERS GEN PATTON WAS KNOWN TO THROW THE F BOMB QUITE OFTEN I BELIEVE IT WAS PROBABLY DUE TO HIS INTENSITY AND A MOTIVATIONAL TOOL MY POINT BEING THAT THROWING AROUND THE F BOMB NOW AND THEN IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING UNLESS YOUR WORKING WITH A SUITE AND TIE IN A MANHATTAN OFFICE JUST MY TAKE ON IT
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MSG Chuck Pewsey
MSG Chuck Pewsey
10 y
Patton cussed because he had a high pitched voice and he was compensating for it.
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SSG Katherine Likely
SSG Katherine Likely
10 y
Patten had a squeaky voice and if he didn't cuss no one would have taken him seriously.
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MSG Dan Foster
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I can't speak for current policy but personally I believe it may have something to do with professionalism. I grew up a "Navy Brat" , raised by a WWII original "Bad Ass" UDT/SEAL. Don't ever remember my father dropping the F bomb in front of my mom and/or brothers and sister. I served 20 plus years and never felt I had to use four letter words to express myself and/or get the message across in any situation. If one chooses to "cuss" I only ask they not do so in front of my wife, daughters and grandchildren. There is a time and a place, be smart, be professional, and be courteous.
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COL Bde Commander
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check the UCMJ, its against the UCMJ to use profanity.
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SGT Robert R.
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You don't have to use profanity to get your point across, or to be a warrior. Sometimes you can stretch the limits of your intelligence and be creative in your diction instead of being seen as a leader with a lower level of unprofessional intelligence.
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SFC Andrew Eby
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As a Senior NCOES Instructor in the late 1980s, I taught the NCOs that it was unprofessional to swear or use derogatory remarks as a Non-Commissioned Officer. As a student, you are not in your unit, but in student status. You can only be evaluated as a student by the artificial stresses placed on you to see how you react. It takes discipline and moral courage to control your tongue. In the old days, NCOs were not professional. Once NCOES was established, a whole new ballgame. You need to review the Creed of the Non-Commissioned Officer. I personally taught 103 Cycles of PLDC in addition to BNCOC and ANCOC. I trained and "Murder Boarded" many Instructors as well. Thus you need to check your cussing at the door and exercise discipline and professionalism. Cussing only cheapens your conduct and deportment.
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SFC Stephen King
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I was once told that if you are a person who uses colorful language all the time ie..the F word.

It losses it's EFFECTIVENESS. However, a well place F in a conversation can be very EFFECTIVE.
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SGT David Plaster
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59580e40
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SFC Management Assistant
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This suppression is one of the best things I have heard about. If you can't communicate as a professional, then you don't deserve the stripes.

I am not all against cussing, but the level the army is at disgusts me.
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CPT Company Commander (Hhc, Cyber Protection Brigade)
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Edited 10 y ago
Well, actually it's a violation in the UCMJ 24/7. Good luck enforcing that one. I think 90+ percent of of service members would have at least 1 AR15 on this one.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-29.htm
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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I don't even want to write something about this one. But it's the army. If you can't handle getting cussed at then don't mess up and you won't hear them terrible words to hurt your feelings. Can't handle it get out. I got cussed out many times and I am happy I did cause I never made them mistakes again. It didn't hurt my feelings. And if you hear a conversation that has nothing to do with you and they cuss who cares. Keep to yourself. People are weak period. Anyone have that Hurt Feelings Report!.
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CPT William Ainley
CPT William Ainley
10 y
Sergeant, I assure you that just because it rolled off you, doesn't mean that you are in the majority. My feelings are not hurt by your tasteless comment, my feelings are incensed by them. Before being commissioned, I too held the rank of Sergeant First Class (PSG) as an 11-B. I never resorted to "cussing" someone out when remiss in performing their job or in small talk. Of course I am Old School, and was a Non-Commissioned Officer before you were old enough to worry about acne. The Leadership Courses beginning in 1971 did not include any reference to," it's okay to use vulgar language" but emphasis was on "It is not okay to use profane and vulgar language".
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
SFC (Join to see)
10 y
CPT William Ainley - Sir, I am not saying everyone should go around and cuss people out. But the problem is now a days people are looking to jack up someone's career. No one is out to take a butt chewing when they are wrong and have thick skin and fix themselves. Problems like this was not talked about in the 90's. And it's my opinion. You can tell me you have been in before I was old enough to have acne. Haha good one. I guess your proud of that. But they asked for our opinion so I gave it. Your reply to mine is the exact same thing I was talking about. If you don't like it then ignore it. The military would be a better place. You can give me a tumbs down on this one as well if it makes you feel better. Take care and Happy Halloween!
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CPT William Ainley
CPT William Ainley
10 y
Tsk, tsk, Sergeant, regarding your response to my comment about acne, it does make me feel good! When I enlisted into the United States Army, our Great Nation was being torn apart by my peer group,a generation of cry babies called "Baby Boomers" resorting to both emotional, and in many cases physical violence while expressing their reluctance to be involved in the war being waged in Southeast Asia by our Government. This anger, and disrespect was also directed toward men and women in uniform on an every day occurrence from those that remained silent, but "glared" to verbal assault, to actual physical assault!
I don't get your drift regarding " Someone looking to jack up someone's career". By now, you, as a Senior Non-Commissioned Officer should have the perception to know your boundaries when in the presence of Officers, and other Non-Commissioned Officers in a facility, or when out in the field.
In regard to your assertion that " But they asked for our opinion so I gave it" Then you should have implied, "I said what I meant, and I meant what I said" Instead you concluded by stating "Anyone have that Hurt Feelings Report".
In regards to your comment "People are weak, period!" What?
I did enjoy Halloween, and made sure all the "Little Ones" got plenty of candy, I hope your Halloween was a pleasant one too. Thank you for your service to our Great Nation, and be sure to take full advantage of all the "freebies" being offered by restaurants on Veterans Day, I know I will, we have earned it!
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SFC Michael Moberly
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If all you've got is a bunch of F words strung together, you will never get respect or integrity from your soldiers. Your skills and care for your soldiers will qualify your speech and leadership skills. If want to sound strong, never say "was LIKE oh I better not cuss." We don't need that culture change either.
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CW2 Michael Mullikin
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Hmmm, make that 2,400 years of culture. Remember the Athenian corporal who had been assaulting the walls of Troy for ten years,"How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?"
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SPC Franklin McKown
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Edited >1 y ago
WHO the FUCK knows?
SCARED I guess,THERE is a time for profanity amongst ones peers.
When attacking and the occasional individual ,requires a pep talk. WHO here remembers the scene in "Pacific Rim" ,where the female pilot drops out into an emotional funk.ALL of that could have been CUT through with the appropriate racial epithet and a condescending description of her sexuality and lack of intelligence.
odds are little Mariko has never been spoken to that way,by shocking her back to reality.
The ONLY thing quicker is a slap...which tends to aggravate commanders for some GIRLY reason.
THAT my friends is a CONCISE and logical reason. I WOULD avoid it in Church or around LADIES in the O-club but AT LEAST don't expect KNUCKLE draggers to kid ourselves.
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SGT Mark Grier
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The purpose is to further pussificate the US Army
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CW4 Angel C.
CW4 Angel C.
>1 y
"Pussificate" ROTFLMAO
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CW3 Kim B.
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I always thought they were acronyms
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SPC Infantryman
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Profanity doesn't matter to point. In my opinion the only time it shouldn't be used is in public/garrison or talking to a higher ranking due to respect that should be shown, other than that who f***in cares. Also just cause one uses profanity it does not define their intelligence.
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SPC Operator
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I don't thank using profanity is a necessity.
If there's a rule you can't use it in school then there is a rule. Do I thank it is a nisessity? No Do I feel inforcing it is a waist of time? Yes We are Profesionals but we are also not the girl scouts or politicians. I know if I and many nco's over me are not going to care when an event happens were life's are on the line.
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