Posted on Apr 22, 2016
What is your advice for Females joining the ranks of the combat jobs in the Military?
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I am an Army Recruiter and it would be great to share.
As we gear up to ship out some of our first female Future Soldiers in combat jobs, I ask of the members of RP, what is your advice for these young soldiers?
Please keep it constructive and nothing along the lines of they shouldn't be able to serve in these positions because that ship has sailed and opinions about how they should not serve in these positions are not going to change anything.
Edit: The conversation among RP members about mentoring these service members is amazing. Honestly, I did not know what to expect when I started the thread, because this is a subject many feel strong about. Thank you so much for all of your advice thus far, I cannot wait to share it with our female and male recruits and hope you share it in your ranks/communities as well. Together we are molding the future of the military.
As we gear up to ship out some of our first female Future Soldiers in combat jobs, I ask of the members of RP, what is your advice for these young soldiers?
Please keep it constructive and nothing along the lines of they shouldn't be able to serve in these positions because that ship has sailed and opinions about how they should not serve in these positions are not going to change anything.
Edit: The conversation among RP members about mentoring these service members is amazing. Honestly, I did not know what to expect when I started the thread, because this is a subject many feel strong about. Thank you so much for all of your advice thus far, I cannot wait to share it with our female and male recruits and hope you share it in your ranks/communities as well. Together we are molding the future of the military.
Infantry
Combat
Training
Women in the Military
Combat Arms
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 403
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I would say that if they want to play with the boys, they need to be prepared to be treated as one of the boys...and not get their feathers ruffled when they do. If they do that, they will likely find acceptance. If they try to act like they are a special snowflake deserving of special treatment, they will find themselves ostracized.
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SrA Margie Hooley
LTC Paul Labrador, We all took the same oath and to put it "if they want to play with the boys" is very offensive. I did not serve in combat, but I never felt I had to compete with anyone but myself. I trained to do a job and I did it and did it well. I know in my heart that I would have given my best in a combat situation, as I took my job and my oath seriously. I worked at a VA Hospital after leaving the military, and I met many many combat veterans - men and women. (I don't recall meeting any boys or girls). Coming home after serving in a war zone. God bless them all and their courage. There are many different personalities in the military. Who knows why they join? But for what ever reason, as volunteers, they all stand head and shoulders above the crowd in my book.
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LTC James McElreath
That is such a good statement of what will have to be expected! They are going to play a little rough though.
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My advice? and worth every penny...
Just go and do.
if the unit does it right there will be NO changes..
You either can complete the program of instruction or can not .. don't ask for anything special, if the task is to move something you can not, it's not because you're a female, it's because the SM tasked with the mission needs help. .. that's it.....figure out what to do and accomplish the mission.
Color and gender has no place in the Military
Willing and able
mission accomplishment
Is all that matters..
And yes... I thought that way when i was in..so not trying to push something just because Im no longer living it.
Just go and do.
if the unit does it right there will be NO changes..
You either can complete the program of instruction or can not .. don't ask for anything special, if the task is to move something you can not, it's not because you're a female, it's because the SM tasked with the mission needs help. .. that's it.....figure out what to do and accomplish the mission.
Color and gender has no place in the Military
Willing and able
mission accomplishment
Is all that matters..
And yes... I thought that way when i was in..so not trying to push something just because Im no longer living it.
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SP5 Alan Morland
There is only one way to serve in combat. Be a warrior, never quit, destroy the enemy. If you can do that, sign up.
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SGM Erik Marquez
MAJ Keira Brennan - Thank for the kind words. I went back and re-read my post.... And honestly, don't see anything in it all that spectacular. It was conceived and typed without much thought, as are most of my responses that come from personal experience and observed reality. The tough thought provoking responses are those that the user has never personally seen, done, lived.... that one above was a simple answer to a simple question.
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SP5 Michael Barczykowski
SGM Erik Marquez - You didn't have to think about it because you spoke the truth from your heart. Kudos.
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My advice to put it lightly is just to not to expect everything to be handed to you just because you're a female. You'll have to push yourself even after duty hours to be an equal. And I guess just to not expect special treatment. They need to understand in uniform you aren't male or female, you are a soldier what one is expected to do others will be expected to do.
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Take nothing for granted, expect nothing glamorous, expect to be treated like everyone else, because in the grunts no one is special. But most importantly, have fun.
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SFC W Earl Stone
Its all about attitude as well---keep your perspective in check face and take challenges to give it your all as your counterparts do as well. Equality is what women strive for not just in military service but in the private civilian sector as well.
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Be prepared for some culture shock. There are social graces and norms women enjoy in civilian life they will most likely not find in their unit. I've heard a good Infantry Squad Leader described as an "Equal Opportunity Asshole" during a firefight. None of it is personal.
There are also social norms that they'll be expected to move past. If they're not comfortable urinating in the woodline, not showering for days, or changing their shirt in front of their squad combat arms is probably not the career path for them.
There are also social norms that they'll be expected to move past. If they're not comfortable urinating in the woodline, not showering for days, or changing their shirt in front of their squad combat arms is probably not the career path for them.
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1SG Terry Gibbens
CSM (Join to see) - I was a 1SG with the 1015th Ag Co Postal during the 1st Gulf war you are correct my unit was 50% female and they did a good job. Everything you said was spot on.
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SFC Anthony Pawlisz, PMP
CSM (Join to see) - Have you gone on patrol and carried a 81 mm base plate for the mortar team along with all your gear? Just asking... in the Marine Corps everyone is a rifleman first!
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PO2 David J Horn
TSgt Thomas Reed - There are women that can work wonders, but in my personal experience, the collective of them have lesser requirements; For example, they have lower standards for the PRTs (Physical Readiness Test). Also, before they sent women to submarines, I could not help but notice that on the bases of the all male submarine bases, the shore duty often had a majority of women (mostly pregnant). I eventually left military service due to worsening health problems; while I could do my job perfectly, I no longer was "physically fit" to stay in. I find it insulting that women of my same age group have lower standards, yet I would have had to get out if I had matched their performance. On the other hand, I found how invaluable women have proven to be when I had orders to be a prison guard in Cuba. I have met some horrible females in the military, yet I have also met some very, very fine ones too. In short, I find the "at-all-costs-without-any-regard-to-consequences" politically motivated agenda quite repulsive, yet I evaluate each female on her own individual merits. Lastly, the focus appears to only be the performance of the women. I was on submarines before they stationed women on them. I remember when women went underway with us, and the men's performance at their jobs was significantly different; it was not good. There are circumstances where having females can greatly enhance the carrying out of missions, and others where it can hinder the same. Blindly forcing the issue can do as much or more harm than good; great care should be taken in any matter if they have any care for the lives both genders...
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MCPO Katrina Hutcherson
CPT Pedro Meza - I can't believe that you would, because of your experience with one woman, make a statement that women smell worse than men when going without showers. I know that with judicious use of cleansing wipes and deodorant that both men and women can keep their body odors from offending anyone. That type of broad statement with nothing more than one experience to base it on is, IMO immature and uncalled for. And please know that I'm not a feminist or the least bit thin skinned. I'm just crying foul because that statement didn't add any useful information to the discussion and was only meant to shock and insult the readers.
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Tell them to get used to smelling like foot and ass for weeks on end, being treated like a pack mule and hurting in places they never knew existed.
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SFC David Pratt
It'll be interesting to see a slit trench in a defensive iron triangle with a privacy curtain.
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SFC David Pratt
Will be a tactical nightmare.... I could go on about SLLS, etc; but will refrain as to not offend anyone.
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SSG Delanda Hunt
Get ready for a lot of pain and suffering and nobody is going to care unless the girl is hot.
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My advice to them would be stay strong and confident in all situations. Take emotion out of it and do your job to the best of your ability. Perform with equality and you've earned the right to demand the same professional respect and acknowledgment that your male counter-parts enjoy. And finally, help and support each other making sure to check the drama at the door.
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SSgt John Jensen
Excellent. I would say the same. Drama is for the queens. You are a soldier and earned that right. Prepare yourself for the worst and hope for the best. Let your training and instincts take control. May God Bless you and return home safe.
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SGT Robert George
I have Two nieces that were lieutenants over in the sand box , I don't think either one of them had a problem doing their duty....
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In 1985 while in Colombia I went up against two well trained female guerrilla fighters of the M-19 group, my take away from that experience is that well trained and armed women are deadly when employed properly. The two ladies followed and shadow my team and Colombian ARMY escorts by blending in with the locals, in essence they stalks/hunted us, and at a restaurant for their amusement they sent be a beer with the message "Your Time will come LT". Bethany, tell your female recruits to always be flexible because weak men will challenge them, but tenacity combined with training will develop their fighting skills, and this gives them an advantage against these misguided religious idiots we are fighting. "Carpe diem is translated "seize the day",
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CPT Pedro Meza
SFC John Trujillo - Trujillo, Women in Colombia traveled quick and saw no need to carry heavy loads, bullets and a weapon was enough. You just proved my point that you are fighting old wars. M-4 kill just like M-16, but M-16 can bash thick skulls like yours.
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CPT Pedro Meza
SFC John Trujillo - Sad to see an E-7 planting doubt in today's new fighters that have the potential to do a better job against religious misguided idiots that fear armed women, just because the E-7 bases guerrilla warfare fighting abilities based on male standards. So how many E-7 Trujillos can accomplish what one ARMY women can accomplish against ISIS? Trujillos tienes miedo, that a women can do better then you.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
CPT L S - I can only speak of the Evil in Latin America that I contributed too. Not a good thing for a Good Catholic Boy to be responsible for the Murder and Rape of Catholic Nuns and Priests there. I will always remember the Righteousness of Bishop Oscar Romero and the Mary Knoll Sisters.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
'On This Day' 1980: American Nuns Kidnapped, Raped & Murdered by U.S.-Trained Salvadoran Death...
On December 2, 1980, Maura Clarke, Jean Donovan, Ita Ford and Dorothy Kazel, 4 American church women, were kidnapped, raped and murdered by U.S.-trained
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Bethany:
In a 21 year career, I have seen basically 2 types of service women.
Those who think they need to put themselves out front and be "recognized" all the time. I.E. "Look at me, see how hard I work, see me"?? And those who just get the job done. Act like one of the group, don't look for special privileges, etc. My best advice to any woman going into a combat role. Use your training. Listen to those who know more. Get the best experience out of it you can. BE YOURSELF!
In a 21 year career, I have seen basically 2 types of service women.
Those who think they need to put themselves out front and be "recognized" all the time. I.E. "Look at me, see how hard I work, see me"?? And those who just get the job done. Act like one of the group, don't look for special privileges, etc. My best advice to any woman going into a combat role. Use your training. Listen to those who know more. Get the best experience out of it you can. BE YOURSELF!
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Every job in the military is a "combat job." I believe you mean Combat Arms as opposed to Combat Support or Combat Service Support.
1) Remember just because you do CS/CSS doesn't mean you won't end up with CA units (My first unit was a Grunt BN).
2) Pick a career field that sounds interesting. If that's Admin, pick Admin. If that's Combat Engineers, pick CE. If that's Infantry, pick Infantry. It's up to the "system" to prove you can't do something, not "people within the system."
3) Don't do something to promote an agenda. Do something because you want to do it, or because you want to challenge yourself. Doubts are fine, but if you don't willingly choose it, you're going to hate it. Be committed to your choice.
4) No matter what unit you go to, there's going to be a lot of Suck. And there's going to be a lot of Fun. It's up to you to focus on the latter. If you focus on the former... your time will reflect that.
1) Remember just because you do CS/CSS doesn't mean you won't end up with CA units (My first unit was a Grunt BN).
2) Pick a career field that sounds interesting. If that's Admin, pick Admin. If that's Combat Engineers, pick CE. If that's Infantry, pick Infantry. It's up to the "system" to prove you can't do something, not "people within the system."
3) Don't do something to promote an agenda. Do something because you want to do it, or because you want to challenge yourself. Doubts are fine, but if you don't willingly choose it, you're going to hate it. Be committed to your choice.
4) No matter what unit you go to, there's going to be a lot of Suck. And there's going to be a lot of Fun. It's up to you to focus on the latter. If you focus on the former... your time will reflect that.
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MSgt (Join to see)
correct me if I'm wrong but is a turret gunner "infantry"? Could be, I suppose. But as a grunt, we walked or were dropped off in some god forsaken piece of earth and made a home there until we walked out or were picked up...
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
MSgt (Join to see) - I think MSG (Join to see) may be referring to someone filling a Machine Gunner role. Service Differences. All of our Infantry are "hikers" where as they have "riders" (like cavalry iirc) which was highlighted in the USMC integration recommendations. Don't quote me but it would be like one of our 0331 with a turret mounted M19 or M2 on a vehicle (I believe).
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MSgt (Join to see)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - my original MOS was 0331 (M-60) later 0321/8653 and finally 2336
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
MSgt (Join to see) - Check. I think he inadvertently replied to me (through the feed) as opposed to the top post, so I'm "guessing" as much as you are.
Army vs. USMC has lots of little differences and "rider" vs. "hiker" was one of the big ones for Combat Arms. When the Integration Recommendations came out from HQMC, all "rider" MOS (08/13/18 series) were recommended OPEN, while "hiker" (03 series) was recommended closed.
The debate was "why the difference between USMC and Army" when both have Infantry? USMC justification was that USMC has less MOS doing same number of tasks (we only have "hiker" in 03 series, whereas Army has "hiker" and "rider" in their 11 series).
There's never been a debate as to whether ANYONE can operate a firearm (from sidearm to machinegun, we use Bandsmen as rear area security per T/O). The debate for USMC centers around Loss of Efficiency, and Injury Rate. So I'm not sure where Turret Gunner comes into play.
Army vs. USMC has lots of little differences and "rider" vs. "hiker" was one of the big ones for Combat Arms. When the Integration Recommendations came out from HQMC, all "rider" MOS (08/13/18 series) were recommended OPEN, while "hiker" (03 series) was recommended closed.
The debate was "why the difference between USMC and Army" when both have Infantry? USMC justification was that USMC has less MOS doing same number of tasks (we only have "hiker" in 03 series, whereas Army has "hiker" and "rider" in their 11 series).
There's never been a debate as to whether ANYONE can operate a firearm (from sidearm to machinegun, we use Bandsmen as rear area security per T/O). The debate for USMC centers around Loss of Efficiency, and Injury Rate. So I'm not sure where Turret Gunner comes into play.
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