Posted on Apr 27, 2016
What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)
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So this CSM from the the 8th MP BDE seems to be out of regulations. From the comments she has been corrected but she claims she is being harassed. I don't even understand how she got to be a CSM at a BDE. What COL out there is letting this happen? In one of the photos she is wearing stilettos in uniform. WTF? What kind of example is this. The worst is from a Facebook user that said:
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
Posted in these groups: 
CSM
Grooming Standards
CSM Grooming Standards
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 903
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Shame.... All I have to say is Shame... on any leader that is supposed to be the keeper of the standard and does not lead by example.
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TSgt Charles Linebery
Black female in the military ignoring regulations and doing her thing = today’s political climate.
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SSG Marlin Dammarell
Today's Army, and it aint getting any better anytime soon. Its all over the Services!! One big reason why I retired at 20 years. lol. Now I can walk around the Base's/Post's and just laugh it it. Even worst overseas. Best decision in my 20 years!! God Speed!!
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CW4 Angela Birt
CSM Poll is correct. This is a leadership failure. NCOs enforce standards and any Bde Cdr who let her get away with that also failed.
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SGT Mike Moschkin
Definitely a failure of higher ups to let him/her know that this is unacceptable we are talking about military standards here !
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This is actually kind of fun to see. The Facebook page of this MP unit is going nuts right now. And the 8th Theater Sustainment Facebook page someone posted about this and they are headed up to Schofield Barracks now lol. Whats good though is I'm sure the lower enlisted were scared to speak up but get a bunch of roudy veterans involved and the problem gets addressed.
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SGT Thomas Bentley
CPT Joe Carmody - Under the last Commander and Chief it would have been a considered a crime(only not one) to correct a minority(god I hate the my Army has come to this) of would be harassment. Had a minority soldier get a shaving profile just so he could put a thin line douche bag (a type of beard) so he could pick up women at the bar. I caught him a he showed me his profile that stated infected area and could be no more than 1/4in. I said in front of his platoon SGT, who should have stopped weeks ago, "You mean to tell me that your infection is the perfect configuration of a douche bag". Then and only then his NCO took action. I hate that the Army has come to this.
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CPT Russell Pitre - Obvious case of Stolen Valor. Someone is impersonating a Command Sergeant Major!
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SFC Jim Ruether
I actually got a response from a Major in the 8th and he said she recently moved on and is no longer a member of their unit in Hawaii. He didn't say whether she got out? Not to beat a dead horse but is there any way to see if she's out or has complied with regulations or did they just transfer a problem child to another unit?
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SPC Korey Kilburn
SPC Lynise Webb my oldest sister went to boot in 1985 a PFC and Retired 20 years later a CW3. She has long curly hair and was always perfectly squared away as well.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
MSgt Rick Szanyi - Seeing as how this was resolved three years ago, I doubt it ;)
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MSG Louis Alexander
Good point! Where's the Officer involvement? Surely they could recognize the deficiency, are they so frozen with political correctness they choose to ignore the situation or fear confronting a senior enlisted and being demonized for doing so?
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SFC William Huse
It is extremely hard to correct someone of superior rank without receiving a nasty response. You have to remember, reguardless of the infraction, these people hold a very high and respectable rank, and most of the time busted their ass to get there. Even if you can't respect the person, respect the rank. In my tenure, I found there was always a way to convey a thought without being disrespectful. Never tear on thin ice. Use your chance n of command, there is always someone higher up the pole. Just saying.
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We fire Command Master Chiefs in the Navy for less.
Any officer should be correcting her, with a witness.
Any officer should be correcting her, with a witness.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
The thing is, Commander, You must have an Officer first that cares MORE for Army regulations than he does for his own career an possibly stirring the pot. "She" evidently wears 4" heels to make her tower over others when in uniform. and she refuses to cut her weave to a decent length so it can be properly kept at length. She thinks Regulations do not pertain to her either because of her Rank, Sex or Race. And evidently her Superior Officers are afraid to discipline her.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Cynthia Croft - I always fostered an open door policy and LISTENED to what my Sailors and Officers had to tell me. I often had my greatest disagreements (maybe fights - behind closed doors - with the CO). Once the door was opened after that - no matter who prevailed, we spoke with one voice. If you wanted to see real knock down and drag out disagreements - that was in the CPO Mess - but once again after conses - one voice from the mess.
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SFC Jim Ruether
Cynthia Croft - That's it in a nut shell Cynthia when you dress for success your uniform is spotless and your grooming standards are ......well to standards. Your mustache is to regulations or none existent. You don't walk around with hair hanging down below our cap whether you are man or woman. It's just not acceptable.
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I worked with her when she was the OPS SGM with the 92nd MP BN at Ft Benning. I was a brand new 1LT. ADA officer, newly crossleveled MP PL. Our unit was mobilized to Benning to backfill one of their deploying companies. I got pulled to be BN S6. No signal/commo experience or training, no NCOIC, no commo SGT, nothing. Just me. After a couple of days they pulled one of our PSGs to be my NCOIC. Charged with preparing comms for this unit's MRX. She sabotaged me and threw me under the bus more times than I care to remember. I'd try to work an issue and she'd get mad and wave me off with a "I've got this LT, stay in your lane", then when a question would be asked about it during a CUB, she'd sit there and act like she'd never heard of it. I witnessed her dog cussing one of their S1 LTs on numerous occasions. Any attempts to address her behaviour with her superiors were summarily dismissed and any attempts to address her directly were like throwing gasolene on a fire. So this does not surprise me in the least.
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LTC (Join to see)
I did say something, and it got me fired and loaned out to another unit on post. She had the BN S3 and the CO in her hip pocket and they backed her no matter what and anyone that crossed her got sent packing. I saw 3 LTs stand up to her, myself included, and all 3 of us were shipped off to other units on post.
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1LT (Join to see)
This is why my SSG told me to record every interactions with soldiers. I feel bad sir that you had to experience when you were just a LT. I don't agree with this behavior and I am female. I hope someone does something about this sir.
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CPT Richard Fematt
It be a cold day 8n hell when a CSM would chew out or harangue this officer!!! LT needs to take charge and inform the CSM that he is an officer and as such outranks the CSM! Sounds like there were more than one toxic leaders in that unit!!!
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LTC (Join to see)
CPT Richard Fematt - yes, there were. Any time anyone stood up to CSM Flonase she ran and tattled to the O4 or O5 and they had her back.
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As a Navy Command Master Chief my primary duty was to set the example in ALL ways, That included appearance. Look I had a lot of things to do and i did them all well, BUT I had to make sure I was totally squared away every day of my career BEFORE I left my spaces and went to work. Leadership begins when your troops SEE YOU.
IF you do not take the time to present yourself as a professional, quit, retire, fade away! She needs to fix it, apologize, and then go AWAY! the damage has been done to many times and she has lost credibility.
IF you do not take the time to present yourself as a professional, quit, retire, fade away! She needs to fix it, apologize, and then go AWAY! the damage has been done to many times and she has lost credibility.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
MSG Louis Alexander - However, I sort of thought that a CSM job anywhere in the Army would be a "highly visible" job, no? I know for a fact the job of Command Master Chief IS highly visible since all of my troops inspected ME on a daily basis as well as every officer both in my Chain of Command and out of it, to say nothing of my peers! I have to wonder about hers.
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MSG Louis Alexander
CMDCM Gene Treants - Well Gene, unfortunately there are CSM’s like this woman who are in a position which allows them to stay in the background out of sight, out of mind simply because of their so-called responsibility, you know, managing others while keeping a very low profile. I’ve seen this CSM in action and from my simple observations she’s poison to any command. Her know it all militant ghetto attitude and the level of persuasion she has over the Commissioned Officer’s through threats is striking. And as posted earlier in this discussion those same Commissioned Officers are so frozen with fear of offending her race, they turn a blind eye knowing their action is inexcusable, allowing for that cancerous political correctness to seep in, and like any good little officer, they want to be promoted and anything negative towards her could possibly jeopardize their career, so they ignore it until they’re backed into a corner is what we’re seeing now. Don’t be fooled, I’m sure the Navy has their own little moles who scurry around from place to place avoiding the brass and creating a living hell for those under their rank structure.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
MSG Louis Alexander - yes we do and of course all of the services have them. I am reminded of an Admiral who was inspecting my (Female) Company at Great Lakes one time. As we got to one of my Sailors he stopped and asked me if the Navy really allowed women to wear Black Nylons with dress uniforms. I was very careful to not laugh at him and responded, "No, Admiral. Uniform regs require neutral or see through not black, however, she is BLACK." With that we continued the inspection. He made no other comments, but I do think he learned a little that day.
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SN Jay Perry
I have seen Command Master Chief's stagger on board so hungover they could barely stand but clean shaven well-dressed and pressed and ready to go to work 5 minutes later after a cup of coffee! You lead from the front standards are set from the top and followed by those below if you don't lead others will not follow!
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I am a African American Female Retired Senior Non Commissioned Officer with over twenty years of service. I give two** about her being, Black, Female, or the Soldier she falsely portrays herself to be. It is my duty as the Senior NCO to be the standard bearer period. She does NOT represent me, nor any other standard bearer that I know or have known in the past. She is the very reason Women in Arms get a bad rep, and great NCO's get out. Shame on anyone who ever was in her presence and did not make the on the spot correction. The Drill Sergeant is coming out. I better get off...before I FLIP***** OUT.
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LTC (Join to see)
The problem was she had a couple of field grade officers in her hip pocket so that anyone who tried to make on the spot corrections got cussed out or ignored and then tattled on to one of her O4-O5 buddies who then called the poor slob onto the carpet and chewed their ass out.
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SPC Jason Van Wey
Well said she needs someone to put a boot in her ass and square her away I took pride in looking right in my uniform it made me proud to wear it she wears it like it means nothing to her and she doesn't care what the standards are or even if she is breaking then. I saw many of good soldiers get out because they didnt get or would not be promoted but then a soldier like her makes it all the way to the top. I am also curious was she always like this or did one day she just started ignoring the regulations?
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SSG Patrick Stewart
I’m tracking for sure. Good for you for calling out one of the multiple issues in the worlds greatest Army. What happened to being squared away?
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You know a simple letter to the SMA with pictures and a basic request for some senior mentorship, based if not on violations of regulations, professionalism, but at the least perception of both...might do wonders....
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PO1 Brian Carlson
Everyone is telling the individual who reported this to use the chain-of-command, but it looks like the chain-of-command failed on this one. Her people in her chain-of-command have not taken any action.
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SSG Kevin Holt
SSG Carlos Madden - why scrub the comments. Should have been relieved for cause by now.
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LTC (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - As someone I know used to say, "In the old 'brown shoe' Army", your first impulse would have been considered not only an appropriate response to that gesture of disrespect, but the MOST appropriate response. Ending the humming is priority one. Demonstrating immediate consequences for disrespectful behavior immediately follows priority one. Some people have been so free of consequences throughout their life that a dose of reality works wonders.
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PO1 Brian Carlson
She has Tony Robbins on her web site. Maybe she has been walking on too many fires.
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SGT Michael Lawler
As a NCO from the VietNam generation, the Army & NCO Creed comes to mind. Obviously, the chain of command must take a portion of responsibility for this complete & utter failure of one of our own! Starting with the Commander-in-Chief all the way down to the panel which promoted this individual. No one is above the the regulation written long before she entered the service. She has not only betrayed her oath but also her gender, many women have struggled for equality in the ranks & with the actions of one lone selfish act will be her post mortem epitaph! It is not what you did yesterday or today but what will be accomplished tomorrow.
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SFC Jim Ruether
SGT Michael Lawler - She has dishonored the NCO Corp and the U.S. Army with her resistance to adhering to regulations in the 670-1. She should be brought up on charges and forfeiture of rank and pay till she corrects her appearance. That ought to take care of this BS once and for all.
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