Posted on Apr 27, 2016
What would you do if your CSM was ignoring uniform and grooming standards? (CSM Flournoy)
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So this CSM from the the 8th MP BDE seems to be out of regulations. From the comments she has been corrected but she claims she is being harassed. I don't even understand how she got to be a CSM at a BDE. What COL out there is letting this happen? In one of the photos she is wearing stilettos in uniform. WTF? What kind of example is this. The worst is from a Facebook user that said:
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
"This one!!!! Holy **** she was in charge of us in Afghanistan!! I could go on and on about this toxic leader!! Trying to maintain professionalism but this one.....when a CSM so jacked up like this, she was laughing her ass off during our rehearsal of my brothers ceremony after he was killed in Afghanistan, she f***ing yelled at me because I "took too long saying my goodbye " as I'm f***ing crying kneeling in front of it. This post will probably get me in trouble, and ruin the rest of my army career as well as my day and my army experience."
What would you do if you were there? What if you were on command?
What should the Army do about this?
(Thanks to Army MP WTF Moments and it's followers for the photos.)
**************UPDATE************************
The 8th Theater Sustainment Command CSM will be travelling to the 8th MP BDE to have some one on one time with this CSM. It is amazing as leaders will do when they are being called out. He should have done that a long time ago.
Posted in these groups: 
CSM
Grooming Standards
CSM Grooming Standards
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 903
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I knew this CSM when she was the BN CSM at Leonard wood. She was a disgrace then and she is a disgrace now. The garrison CSM tried to get rid of her and her battle buddy at the replacement detachment. But had no backing from the commanders. Hopefully she will not be around to do any more harm
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Well I say if all the stories are true and that the leaders above her have not taken action then we have a bigger problem than a rogue CSM ignoring regulations. As for the disrespect issue raised in this discussion, she apparently has lost her respect for the uniform, the position of trust she occupies and the Soldiers she fails at leading. I just wonder how she got away with this for so long. It would be interesting to see who her last 4 or 5 raters were and how they rated her on the ole NCOER.
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SFC William Adamek
100% percent dead on. This problem, reading through the personal experiences on here, did not happen overnight nor in one command. This problem is not so much the CSM as the chains of Commands she reported to for continuing to allow it and even elevating her to higher levels of responsibility. Many of you are saying that her leadership are now on their way to see her because of this social media flair. I say that if they are her leadership then they already knew or themselves should not have been in their leadership roles. They themselves have allowed this to happen and continue to happen. Again... this problem did not happen overnight nor in just one command!
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Obviously the system and the leadership is failing here. If the system does not have the proper input from the leadership the system won't work. We should not be having this discussion if the CSM's leadership were doing the right thing but obviously not. It is up to the young NCO's in and around this CSM to correct this infraction and if the case by what I have read toxic leadership. There is again the NCO Support Channel, the chain of command, EO and of coarse anonymous reporting above the CSM immediate supervisors. If not send me a email ( [login to see] ) with her direct line and higher COC contact info and I will inquire and complain. Bottom line is if you want to correct it then do something about it. LET'S FIX OUR NCO CORP WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE FIX. TRAIN TO LEAD
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SSG Robert Webster
CSM (Join to see) Your statement about the young NCO's bothers me. Is this really good advice or did you mean the senior NCO's around her? I can tell you from personal experience that younger NCO's should not go this route unless they have strong hidden ally/mentor in the background, otherwise an action like that will spike their military career no matter how correct they are.
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CSM (Join to see)
SSG Webster,
Of coarse it would bother you, it bother me back in the days but the Army has changed and continues to change and we can't take this Army into the future with outdated thoughts. In today's Army all individuals are responsible, held accountable and expected to address issue, make on the spot correction. Our Soldiers are our future leaders and all these CSM giving sound advice will not be around when they take over therefore we must mentor them to do what is right and not shy them away because they or someone thinks that their career is at stake, heck if that were the casue I would not be where I am today.
To many NCO's at all level are turning the other cheeck and claim it is not in there lane. uncorrected substandard issue are in NCO's lane.
Of coarse it would bother you, it bother me back in the days but the Army has changed and continues to change and we can't take this Army into the future with outdated thoughts. In today's Army all individuals are responsible, held accountable and expected to address issue, make on the spot correction. Our Soldiers are our future leaders and all these CSM giving sound advice will not be around when they take over therefore we must mentor them to do what is right and not shy them away because they or someone thinks that their career is at stake, heck if that were the casue I would not be where I am today.
To many NCO's at all level are turning the other cheeck and claim it is not in there lane. uncorrected substandard issue are in NCO's lane.
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SSG Robert Webster
CSM (Join to see) - Thank you for your comments. You are quite correct about too many NCO's at all levels turning the other cheek. Thank you for upholding your end of the bargain and ensuring the education of the NCO's and Officers within your sphere of influence.
May I ask what "outdated thoughts" that you are referring to?
May I ask what "outdated thoughts" that you are referring to?
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SFC Anthony Iocca
Lets Identify the problem "correctly" she is the best America can produce under Affirmative Action.
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So, with all the SgtMaj's running around, officers, VIPs and such, it took a Facebook rant to deal with this? Unless she's literally lost her mind, this was not something that just happened. This started long before she became a SgtMajor and CSM. Her chain of command needs to get hip checked too
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My thought would be that CSM Flournoy and the 8th MP Brigade Commander should both be relieved of their duties. The CSM works for the Commander...and in my Army the Commander is responsible for all things...done or undone. This is really a very serious command climate issue that needs to be addressed very directly and very soon.
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Classic example of " Do as I say, not as I do". She must have felt totally safe as a double minority. All she had to say was Harressment and her supervisor would have been relieved for cause for correcting her. I saw the start of this in 1990 while attending USASMA. A few double minorities were coming to class every day not to standard. Even when shown right out of AR 670-1 by their classmates what was wrong they would not conform, saying it is open to interpretation. All the cases I saw were about hair color, hair length, and grooming standards in class A uniform. The issue was brought to the chain of command with no resolution ever being reached. Basically we were told to let the dead dog lie, instead of raising a stink about it. A few male SGMs were discharged from the school for gross violations of Army Regs but no actions were ever taken against a double minority violator.
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From what it sounds like, she was like this long before she got to her current duty station... And if nobody in her chain of command did anything about it, I would have to say (in my honest opinion) that shes got some pretty damn good knee pads and a set of lips to get away with being like that for so many years!!!
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Cpl Daniel Lee
Its appalling that a SgtMaj., who is supposed to be the standard bearer for all enlisted SMs, to be a nasty bag of ass... its even more appalling that another SgtMaj and some other SNCOs are defending her nasty ass!! You should be ashamed of yourself for defending that SgtMaj!! That just tells me that you dont give a fuck about the standards that are in place what so ever!! But, hey... do as i say and not as i do, right??
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Cpl Daniel Lee
Its no fucking wonder that alot of good, if not great SMs are getting out... its because of some stupid, nasty bags of ass like yourself and that SgtMaj!!!
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SFC James Asbill
respect is first of all EARNED ..... and its obvious she has not earned any self respecting NCO's respect. Her rank demands respect .. not the individual ... and she is being called out as an individual ...
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I can only assume the command team was broken. I would argue that the Bde Cdr was also derelict in his/her duty. As an FBC, I can say that my CSM and I had many heart-to-hearts on all kinds of subjects. I counted on him for insight and advice...and friendship...that included telling me when I was wrong. The picture of the CSM's hair bun bulging from her uniform cap says a lot. That growth did not occur overnight and neither did the apparent lack of leadership/counseling at every level during that growth.
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SCPO Anthony Wingers
With all due respect Col. Her peers, the other senior NCOs should have pulled her over and had a little heart to heart with her a long time ago. That failing , they should come to the CO and unload. This outfit must be crippled top and bottom!
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COL Thomas Baltazar
I completely agree...we're on the same Senior Chief. My point was that the entire "leadership" system broke down.
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My first question is where the hell is the leadership here! How can this be allowed? No one can tell me that senior leadership never saw this... and to claim harassment....sorry... not buying it. Everyone who puts on that uniform, regardless of branch, knows full well the standards for dress and appearance. A good leader Always leads by example. They know how to properly set and enforce those standards, they exemplify those standards.
This type of behavior, in my humble opinion, is indicative of todays Politically Correct world and entitlement generation... Why do you enlist if you want to live by your own personal standards? This is what causes dissent and disrespect. How can junior enlisted enforce rules and regulations when the leadership won't live up to them. How can we demand mission completion through teamwork, when the idea of true teamwork is trampled on. I've had the misfortune of having to have dealt, on occasion, with those who bend the rules for themselves, yet enforce those same rules upon everyone else... Sad thing is, it created serious issues in the ranks. Many of which were not resolved for far too long and then took much too long to get things back in order. In the meantime, the mission was put at risk.
Senior leadership needs to address this ASAP. She needs to go!
This type of behavior, in my humble opinion, is indicative of todays Politically Correct world and entitlement generation... Why do you enlist if you want to live by your own personal standards? This is what causes dissent and disrespect. How can junior enlisted enforce rules and regulations when the leadership won't live up to them. How can we demand mission completion through teamwork, when the idea of true teamwork is trampled on. I've had the misfortune of having to have dealt, on occasion, with those who bend the rules for themselves, yet enforce those same rules upon everyone else... Sad thing is, it created serious issues in the ranks. Many of which were not resolved for far too long and then took much too long to get things back in order. In the meantime, the mission was put at risk.
Senior leadership needs to address this ASAP. She needs to go!
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