Posted on Jan 7, 2016
CPT Russell Pitre
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I just saw this video and felt like I was watching a multi-car accident on the interstate. It just got worse as it went on. What made it so bad as this was a SGT. The Safety was professional as he could be. Hats off to him. When I heard her say "I'm not Active Duty" I would have kicked her off the range. I am glad the Safety told her that she was a soldier and that he was a reservist too. If I was her CO I would have do everything I could to reduce her. But I think if you have a NCO like this in your unit the unit itself has a lot of issues in the first place. What kills me also is that she has a combat patch.

What would you have if you were the Safety?

Just so you know that you know it is believed that they Safety was a SSG just the same as was the soldier trying to load the mag.

https://www.facebook.com/Theseniorspecialist/videos/ [login to see] 43848/?fref=nf
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COL Jeff Williams
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I just watched this. Something odd about the video. 1. Why are they on the firing line training and shooting a video? Who would allow that? Why is the Soldier loading the magazine there? Why wouldn't she have the magazine loaded before she got to the firing line? Which makes me wonder if this is even real?
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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1LT William Clardy - I propose the same in another part of the thread
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
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I know, LTC Jason Mackay -- I was actually agreeing with you on that point and adding my two cents' worth.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
>1 y
In violent agreement I think
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SGT Jim Arnold
SGT Jim Arnold
8 y
if my memory serves me. there is a speed loader in each bandoleer you pull from the can. a group of 3 to 4 individuals can load more than enough magazines well before the whole firing line could empty their mags. I was always picked for loading detail.
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PO2 Steven Erickson
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OK. I'm with LCDR (Join to see) on this one.

IF this is real...

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO CORRECT IN PRIVATE? Facebook? Are you f'ing kidding me? If I was the CO of that soldier who posted it on Facebook, I'd have had him/her in my office RFN (That's even faster than ASAP... it's Right F'ing Now). This soldier would get a written Knife Hand like you wouldn't believe, and he/she would be giving a public apology to the SGT, her entire unit and my entire unit. CPT (Join to see) is right... sorta. It'd be "HULK SMASH" but not at the sergeant.

Then I'd make sure that the SGT's boss made DAMNED SURE this wouldn't happen again.

IF this is fake...

It's not funny, and I've found that my sense of humor scale is A LOT broader than most people.
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PO2 Steven Erickson
PO2 Steven Erickson
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Sorry, CPT (Join to see), I don't think I was clear...

My rant is aimed at the JACK-WAGON who posted the video! I would NEVER condone or tolerate an act like that - it's destructive behavior and puts the ENTIRE reserve force in a bad light! The internet is NOT a "broad paintbrush" - it's more like a FIREHOSE of paint that gets EVERYONE dirty.

Please note that I also said that the SGT's boss should make sure this doesn't happen again.

In no way, shape or form am I saying that the SGT hasn't "sucked out loud" and this wasn't an EPIC FAIL... I'm just pissed at the guy(s) who put this on the internet.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
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PO2 Steven Erickson, forget "correct in private." Can anybody explain why range personnel who break out a camera and start taking pictures when they're supposed to be getting the firing line ready aren't bounced off the range as safety violations?
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
CPT Russell Pitre, the purpose of discipline is to correct behavior when it is correctable, not to punish anybody. The NCO needed training, and probably still does. Publicly ridiculing her does not accomplish that.
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PO2 Steven Erickson
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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This hurts my heart....
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
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Since You Happened To Ask,
"What would you do if your Sergeant didn't know how to load a magazine"?
Makes Me Wonder If Perhaps He Didn't Renew His Subscription?
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SFC Marcus Belt
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I've been doing this long enough to NOT be surprised by anything. Fix the problem, continue training. Afterwards when I'm not burning daylight on a range, I check to see if I need to conduct more remedial training.

Given just the video, I don't know the backstory or anything about this Soldier's performance, but I do know that being a dick about it can alienate Soldiers who aren't even involved. Being a dick is rarely the preferred technique for teaching someone to do something and do it well, nor does it create optimal conditions for unit cohesion.

Everybody remembers that leader in their career who'd take every opportunity to make everything suck (worse) for those around him. Remember that person?

If Soldier's didn't have deficiencies to be corrected, a great many of us would have to warm up our [rather dusty] resumes.
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COL Charles Williams
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I would train them properly, or retrain them. Apparently, her chain of command did PMI (pre marksmanship instruction) with her to ensure she was trained properly before she got to the range? That is where I would start.

The thing "between the lines" CPT Russell Pitre that continues to kill me is excuse making - "I am not on active duty..." But, an active duty service members a a similar comment about are the guard or reserve, they are quick to tell us, they are in the Army... They can't have it both ways.... Can they?

When I was a Company Commander at Fort Drum, I had a PSG, I actually gave a summarized Article 15 to (trying to make a point) because he was failing at every NCO responsibility in AR 600-20; I actually read NCO responsibilities to him from the AR. His comment to me, more than once, was "I have never been a PSG before..." At the ART 15 hearing I told him "I have never been a Company Commander before either."

Sad, but, if a Soldier is not properly trained, we/you need to fix it. I would start with her NCOs who sent them to the range...
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CPT Russell Pitre
CPT Russell Pitre
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That is a pretty sad excuse. If they didn't think they could handle it maybe then the should have downed down the promotion.
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SGT Richard H.
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I'm sure that my first reaction (like most NCOs) would be utter disbelief that a fellow NCO doesn't know how to load a magazine. Beyond that, it's a teachable moment. Remove the shooter from the firing line, teach her what she's doing wrong while having a private chat about an NCOs responsible to remain proficient at basic tasks, and move on. There's no reason for this to be filmed, let alone posted on the web, but there's every reason to fix the problem. As noted by others, it also appears that there are some range safety rules that need to be reviewed, and there's a real good chance that this SGT shouldn't be allowed to shoot that day unless a whole lot of proficiencies can be demonstrated first.
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SSG James Newman
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Well, I think a lot of what you said is probably true as far as the unit having issues. I wish I could see the video to see how the Spc. handled it. Myself I am a retired SSG and I think if one of my Sergeants had this issue I would first be embarrassed that I failed him as a leader in such a simple task. I would certainly give him a counseling statement and the corrective action would be for him/her to load all magazines for the unit. It would be for a given time over maybe the next few ranges or something to that effect.
The piece about her having a combat patch I would have to see if she had actually deployed if she hadn't deployed with me.
If the SGT did not report to me I would report the incident to her NCO or officer, depending upon who was available.
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SGT(P) S6 Communications Ncoic
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Unbelievable. On all accounts. You have an unbelievably untrained NCO who clearly believes that being in the reserves is an excuse to be a piss poor soldier, and on the other hand, there is that mouthy Specialist who is more concerned with being able to belittle and disrespect a higher rank than actually helping the situation. This is one of far too many flags that are raised showing the decline of our military.
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PO1 John Miller
PO1 John Miller
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I don't feel the SPC was being mouthy and disrespectful. He was training the Sergeant.
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CPT Russell Pitre
CPT Russell Pitre
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From what I am hearing is that they were both SSG. I don't think he was rude. There comes a time when you need to be told you are wrong.
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SGT John " Mac " McConnell
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OMG ! That is an accident waiting to happen ! SMDH !
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CPT Russell Pitre
CPT Russell Pitre
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I agree. I would have not let her stay on the firing line.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
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I'd have put her in charge of reloading magazines for the rest of the day(s).
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CPT Russell Pitre
CPT Russell Pitre
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That is a good idea.
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CSM Bn Ssa
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Another example of Soldiers being promoted before they are ready. With all the changes to the promotion system the past couple years we have Soldiers being promoted without even putting in a promotion packet. Just because they meet TIG and TIS does not mean they should lead. The whole system needs to be reworked. You have NCO's being RCP'd because they cant get promoted due to their promotion points being 798 regularly. Its sad that we push out our most trained and experienced NCO's and just replace them with younger inexperienced ones.
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MAJ Contracting Officer
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Don't let ISIS see this video or it will be all over their recruiting videos!
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CPT Russell Pitre
CPT Russell Pitre
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LOL. It would make us look bad.
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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I just saw this video yesterday too, and subsequently posted it on my FB page, tagging all of my NCO friends. This is just totally ridiculous. The "SGT" (I not only use that term VERY lightly but I won't call her an NCO) is unprofessional at worst and heavily untrained at best. I've done nearly every single job at a range to include being the Range OIC and the RSO (not at the same time, mind you). If I was the RSO, she would have been kicked off IMMEDIATELY and notified her chain of command. Depends on my mood, I might have counseled her after I pulled her off. She's an embarrassment to the NCO Corps.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
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SSG (Join to see), what would you do if you were the RSO and saw one of your range personnel operating a smart phone when he's supposed to making sure that the firing line is ready?
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
SSG (Join to see)
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1LT William Clardy, excellent question. I was wondering if someone would notice that aspect of it. I would approach the Safety and inquire what is going on. I would react appropriately depending on the circumstances and his answer. Regarding this particular situation, I would have pulled the SGT (still NOT calling her an NCO) off the line, verbally counseled her and sent her to remedial training. I would also inform the Safety his phone needs to be put away and not used since his duties as a Safety are critical to the safe operation of a range. I would also thank him for being diligent and assertive in dealing with the clearly untrained SGT. Thoughts?
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
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I would have shushed both of them off the firing line, her to get some overdue training in loading techniques and him to get a one-on-one rebriefing on what his duties and priorities are supposed to be while he is on my firing line. If I knew him well enough to judge that this was an out-of-character lapse, I'd send him back to the firing line after (1) suggesting he practice the "mutual respect" aspect of communicating with a peer a little better, (2) reminding him that preserving safety and training quality is even more critical when dealing with untrained personnel, (3) instructing him to deposit his phone with my range NCOIC (to be reissued only after the range had gone cold for the day) and (4) having him pick up some stripper-clip guides from the ammo point to distribute along the firing line. If I didn't have reason to believe he already knew better than to whip out that phone, I'd pull him off the line, confiscate his phone and inform him that he could fetch it back from his first sergeant after I got back to the cantonment area. Harsher than your suggestion, but I think reasonably so. Your thoughts?

As to not calling the firer an NCO, well, she is one whether you think she should be or not. I learned that lesson as a corporal when I didn't manage to keep a grimace-free face while I was at battalion headquarters (1-501 INF, not some support unit) as a master sergeant pontificated about how all this marksmanship stuff was a waste of time because he never once aimed his rifle during the firefights he was in (in Vietnam). As I recall, the battalion CSM and my first sergeant both agreed with the master sergeant that a corporal should always show proper respect to a senior NCO (although I do vaguely remember somebody rephrasing it later on as "he's an E-8 first and an idiot second" along with some caustic comments about foul moods caused by getting stuck with having to endorse an idiot -- I learned more than one lesson that day).
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
SSG (Join to see)
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1LT William Clardy, I can agree with your COA although IMVSO I think it is a little harsh. Regardless of my feelings and personal COA though, if it was you (as the OIC) approaching both Soldiers then I (as either the RSO or NCOIC) would definitely support and back you up.

Regarding the NCO bit, I stand by my assessment of the SGT. Yes, she is in technical essence an NCO but I would NOT call her that since she has failed to act and behave as a Noncommissioned Officer, which is to be the immediate leadership of and set the example for the junior enlisted. ANY Service-member who does not know the very basics of BRM should definitely NOT be in the NCO or Petty Officer ranks. I am not saying they need to be experts in Marksmanship let alone with military grade firearms but they should know the very basics which many learn for the first time in basic training. A person may "hold" the rank of SGT, or SSG, or SFC, etc (or the equivalent in sister branches) but that does NOT mean they are NCOs by any means especially when they don't know the basics.
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PO1 Richard Nyberg
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That would be strange because if he went through basic training he should know how.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
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If he can't load a magazine properly, why is he an NCO? If a private or a SPC has show him, it's a shame.
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LTC Jeff Shearer
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to me that may or may not be a reflection of the good SGT. If the SGT cant load because she is having a hard time with it, train her ass off. Train her every available opportunity.

If the unit, i.e. platoon/company just dont have time to train because they are too busy typing stuff or cleaning offices, that is no go and a much deeper problem. When the company or platoon leadership should have random people in the unit give training that is outside their expertise. There are a million reasons that could have happened. The important part is the leadership should help make the soldier as complete as possible. I could write volumes about this but I will not bore yall, however, if yall want to discuss it over a beer or a whiskey come on over.
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SSgt Douglas King
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To the best of my knowledge, (Retired Security Forces) this looks like a belt fed weapon not magazine fed. And the belt is on wrong side and backwards. I know that the weapons have changed since i retired in 1995 but not in that manner. Please correct me if i am wrong. Active duty or not you are wearing that uniform. Thank you very much for your service.
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SSG Recruiter
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First of all reservists get very little training and are lucky if they get 2 days a year at the range.
When I was a PMI in the Marine Corps, i had a female Gunny who hadn't loaded an M16A2 since basic training. This was during the 90's instead of belittling her, I took a minute and taught her. I spent more time with her than my other shooters. She ended up qualifying expert forr first time.
As a safety NCO your job is to look for SAFETY. Since when does not knowing how to load a magazine constitute a safety violation? Why not take the time to teach someone and bring to your level?
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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Well... is she 1) A prior service vet frkm another branch, where she did NOT receive firearms training ? Or 2) Is she from a unit that does NOT stress the importance of training to thdir troops. I have seen both scenerios... Let us not belittle this service member until we have all of the facts
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