Posted on Jun 7, 2015
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If three Soldiers are eating at a local establishment (we will say all three are Lieutenants for this scenario), and they have removed their tops, is it authorized? What are your thoughts?
Posted in these groups: 4276e14c UniformsAr Army Regulations
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Responses: 32
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Sgt Walter Howard Wooton Jr
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I had this question pop in my mind today. I was in a Verizon store and this "soldier" came in no with her ACU pants, T-shirt and cover on, no blouse and pants not bloused. Being a Marine I find being out in town in Utilities unacceptable to start with, but to see her walk in looking like a total shit bird set my teeth on edge in a major way. Not knowing the Armies regs I said nothing, but did start trying to find out in case I run into this in the future. Wear it proud or don't wear it at all is how I look at it.
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>1 y
100% fix them, at no point of time soldiers allowed walking around like that especially of post
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SP5 Norman McGill
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I'd say that in a restaurant everybody should remove their headgear. Just common courtesy.
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PFC Bradley Campbell
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you should take it off when changing clothes so you can go out to eat.
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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The only time I ever was authorized to take my top off, was out in the field working on setting up a pipeline system, once we had the terminal set up, tops were put back on, so I would say out in public they are a no go.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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Edited 8 y ago
When You are in Your own quarters changing clothes You can take it off otherwise don't even think of it !
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PO1 John Miller
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Am I the only one who thinks it looks tacky as Hell to wear camouflage uniforms in a restaurant? Yes I realize that Army, Navy, and Air Force uniform regulations allow it but I still think it looks unprofessional.

Regardless, I would have corrected the Lieutenants. I'm retired now and not afraid of correcting an Officer. Heck, I wasn't afraid to respectfully correct an Officer when I was active and I'm not now.
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SGT Larss Ogren
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No covers in doors anytime. If you are off post and in uniform your jacked up, fix it quick fast. I understand Army doesn't have this but you should. Only other time is black flag weather.
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PO1 John Miller
PO1 John Miller
10 y
The scenario isn't talking about covers, it's talking about uniform tops.
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CSM Charles Hayden
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A Round Brown asks RP about uniforms?
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10 y
Asking for general thoughts on the scenario CSM. Too many times SMs are afraid to say anything due to rank when it is obviously out of Regs. I made the individuals in this scenario Lieutenants because a lower enlisted may think twice to correct a group of junior officers. If this had actually happened, I would tactfully remind the individuals they were out of uniform and clearly in violation of AR 670-1.
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10 y
AR 670-1 Chapter 3 section 3-1 paragraph "a" states: "Soldiers will present a professional image at all times and will continue to set the example in military presence, both on and off duty. Pride in appearance includes Soldiers' physical fitness and adherence to acceptable weight standards in accordance with AR 600-9."

What we can take from this is that the proper wear of the uniform exudes professionalism ( all buttons buttoned, boots bloused, pockets secured properly, etc.). Soldiers are looked at as professionals and the uniform we wear is just one symbol of the professionalism we are bound to demonstrate everyday. If we become complacent or sloppy in these minor details, we send the wrong message not only to our fellow Soldiers, but to everyone we come in contact with.

Improper wear of the uniform is one small discipline that can eventually evolve into the execution of bigger disciplines over time.

When we as leaders become undisciplined in the minor details in front of our lower ranking Soldiers, we send the message that it's acceptable which can lead to an epidemic of complacency.

I threw this scenario out there to make every Service Member think regardless of branch affiliation or rank. Many of us are willing to spot the correction, but how many of us are willing to approach an individual who is wrong?

The point is that everyone is well within right to initiate general military authority (along with tact) when spotting a correction regardless of the rank on either side of the situation. Everyone has a responsibility to each other to keep our organization within Regs. Although it may be an awkward situation, it's the right thing to do.
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
10 y
SFC Michael Fischer, You speak of training and attention to detail - I still check that the rear pocket buttons on my trousers/shorts are buttoned even if my shirt is not tucked in and hides those buttons.
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10 y
Roger that CSM. I still find myself doing a uniform check of myself repeatedly during the day just like my Drill Sergeants taught me so many years ago. If I am ever corrected by a lower ranking SM, I commend them for having the courage to bring it to my attention. If I ever make it to the rank of Sergeant Major, I hope my Soldiers will continue to look out for me.
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SGT Anthony Bussing
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if IM not mistaken...no, that would be a big breech....plus, are tey even allowed to wear them off base?
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MSG Talent Management Nco
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I understand the "Lieutenant's" thought process as removing the coat to sit down for a meal is the gentleman or ladie like social protocol and prevents spills which may look unprofessional upon returning to work. Myself, if I know I am going to eat at a restaurant that serves items that may dirty my uniform I.e. barbeque or certain seafood spots, I bring a change of clothes so I will wear civilians off post and change back before continuing duty. And I remember a time where that was common place if you wanted to visit an off post restaurant.
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CW2 Stephen Pate
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I would go out on a limb and guess that AR 670-1, DA PAM 670-1 and TC 10-227 might tell ya how the uniform should be worn and might say something about the commander being the only one authorized to modify the uniform. I know there are plenty of times when it would be nice to take it off, such as working in a hot office, out on a detail, etc, you just gotta get the commander to sign off on it. If you want regulatory guidance then look it up. For a Soldier to say "I'll abide once someone shows me a reg" is the problem with today's troops, but I hear it all the time. Don't worry though, I crush it immediately every time!
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SrA Edward Vong
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Not authorized however for dining, don't think it should be a big deal as long as you put it back on when you get up. Almost like wearing a suit jacket in the office.
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TSgt David Holman
TSgt David Holman
10 y
Actually, it is nothing like wearing a suit jacket... the ABU/ACU is considered work attire, so it would be the equivalent of a worker taking off his outer shirt while in a restaurant. If you wear the uniform off post, wear it correctly. If you are wearing full service dress, and remove the jacket, that is a different story.
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