Posted on Nov 22, 2016
Where can I find the regulatory guidance for the proper way for a commissioned officer to address an NCO?
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Posted 9 y ago
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I worked hard to earn the name master Sgt. And that officer should be told if not by a staff or senior Nco then try going to another officer to get him straight.
Reading some of the comments below makes
Me
Consider if some have missed the point of the question. Restating, it appears the question, is there any regulatory requirement on how to address someone? This officer believes he can address NCOs by their first. Mae in front of the troops.
I would start with the UCMJ where it talks about respect and disrespect towards officers and NCOs and the consequences of not rendering proper courtesies and respect. There used to be a study guide regarding customs and courtesy of the military. In that pamphlet consequences were annotated by citations to the proper regulations.
Being discourteous to either an NCO or officer carries a stiff penalty per UCMJ. I'm surprised this question comes up. This has always been simply understood and didn't need explaining after basic training or ROTC/commissioning program.
Me
Consider if some have missed the point of the question. Restating, it appears the question, is there any regulatory requirement on how to address someone? This officer believes he can address NCOs by their first. Mae in front of the troops.
I would start with the UCMJ where it talks about respect and disrespect towards officers and NCOs and the consequences of not rendering proper courtesies and respect. There used to be a study guide regarding customs and courtesy of the military. In that pamphlet consequences were annotated by citations to the proper regulations.
Being discourteous to either an NCO or officer carries a stiff penalty per UCMJ. I'm surprised this question comes up. This has always been simply understood and didn't need explaining after basic training or ROTC/commissioning program.
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ONLY If he is in Special Forces. Otherwise it is military Rank (SSG, NOT E-6) and Last Name.
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I don't understand why it's an issue. It doesn't hurt anything and I don't think many senior to you do it. basically, your boss can call you by whatever name he prefers. I would prefer my rank and last name, my rank, or just my last name, but it's not something I would let get to me, unless it is done in a disrespectful manner. To some, it is a term of endearment. If it does bother you, go to that officer, let him/her know how you feel, and request that use a more formal term of address for you. If they don't, then get used to it. Maybe if your first name is all they go by, then it probably is a problem and should be addressed formally if necessary.
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I would reply that you earned the title, you are to be addressed as Ssg, Sgt, Sfc, 1sg, whatever. It is HIGHLY unprofessional unless your in group (Special Forces) where sometimes that's used for opsec or integrity. There is a regulation, Google it. If you can't find it contact your local NCO Academy, thete should have the answer. Let me know if you find it
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Even though this is wrong, call him by his first name. For me, if it is just him and me, I will have no issues. However, if there were junior enlisted (E1-E4) he should address me by rank and last name. If he doesn't, I would pull aside an explain to him that by calling me by first name in front of junior soldiers is killing my authority over them. I would give him an example on how he would like it if I call him by first name in front junior officers and even front of senior officers.
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Lack of military discipline by wannabe friends establishes inconsistency in leadership that perplexes sound leadership as well as morale. In my tenure as a senior enlisted man, when I saw faternization of junior officers out side of the normal hierarchy of general duties or the weakening of the chain of command by immature contact leadership, it heightened my anger and disrespect for those who violated this mutually respected rank structure. Even worse was a command led by micro managers who bypassed seniors! Good military pride is structured by observing the chain of command built on holding each level responsible and not based on personality but absolute competence, high performance standards and loyalty! Leadership conduct comes with each step in advancement and respect is the goal and not patronization to be likeable!
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MCPO Kurt Stauff
I like that, Tom; mutual love and kumbaya moments are not what makes the military successful. Mutual respect, firm leadership, and integrity are what makes the fleet run.
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I cannot speak for the other services, and from the comments, I cannot speak for the "modern Navy" but back in my day. In the shop you called a person by their name. First if you were friends or last if you weren't or if that's what they preferred to be called. Some even had nick names. If the Shop had a LPO he was addressed by his last name as a sign of respect All Chief's were CHIEF. Officers were called by their Rank and name or Mister ____ . The X.O. was XO and the Skipper was The SKIPPER When you have a shop full of 1st @nd and 3rd class Petty officers plus Airmen it was unthinkable to call anyone "Petty Officer Such an such. We did not have that much time. We were too busy trying to keep the Missiles on the roof and keep the birds armed. This was all behind the scenes. In public or as Introductions that is another thing and all that is spelled out in the Blue Jackets Manual for the Enlisted and the Newly Commissioned Naval Officers Guide for Officers.
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MCPO Kurt Stauff
Or refer him to your Chief (Navy E7); I am sure any misunderstandings would be overcome.
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Its hard to say for sure why your Officer is calling people by their first name without knowing his/her background. I've seen a lot of this in the medical community while I was in and I understood it that they wanted to be more hospital like atmosphere. That said, as it has been pointed out, your first name is Sergeant, in fact, that is the only name you need when it comes down to it. Lastly I will leave you with this, there is a great different between a Sergeant and a Non Commissioned Officer, Sergeants are promoted everyday, just like Officers come from colleges, neither makes a leader, that is something you have that can be developed, or not. A Non Commissioned Officer will know and understand his/her place in the military structure and where their authority comes from, as a SSG you are both in the NCO Support Chain, but also in the Chain of Command, in that, you are in a Section Chief position (I assume) and that is the first position position that a LT can interact with the Enlisted through you. There are things that all NCOs must know in order to lead, you are the backbone of the Army in you know and enforce these things. When ever an Officer is telling troops what to do, there is a large lacking in NCOs in that unit. I have observed and corrected this in many a unit as a 1SG, you and your Soldiers are a weapon system, Officers need only point you at the target if you are doing what you are supposed to do, and yes, anyone regardless of rank that ever tried to address my by other than my rank would have a closed door meeting, had a few West Pointers try to challenge me on a few leader topics, unfortunately had to get them squared away at the COL level. So in a nutshell, pull that Officer aside, be tactful, explain that it undermines the units discipline and if it doesn't stop, use your chain.
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MCPO Kurt Stauff
The medical community in all services is unique. They have a closeness and job that is very different from all the rest of the various military subcultures. I know that I have been a bit peckish as to how a Hospital Corpsman treated my rank, and the easy way they had with commissioned doctors and nurses; but I understood, because my mother and my sister were both RN's, and I understood that job was life or death on occasion. After I became a Navy Chief, and started hanging around with Chief Corpsmen, I understood there was a special relationship between the officer and enlisted components of that branch. But that still did to stop me when I was a Senior Chief in Yokosuka, JA, when an E5 Corpsman could not start an IV after 4 attempts; I called for a nurse and the procedure went fine after that. A year later, I went back for the same procedure and was confronted with the same Corpsman with an IV in his hand; I just said, "Do it right this time, Sailor," and he did.
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1SG Jay Vanderford
MCPO Kurt Stauff - Please understand that I was not being demeaning in any way to the medical profession, and I think you said it right here, they are a special crew with a bond that surpasses most due to the nature of what they do. There are different levels of discipline in the Army for different jobs, makes sense to me really, I was in a combat arms so attention to detail and absolute no questions when a given task is to be performed, no time for it. Then we have a great deal of support elements, for the most part they were just a disciplined by nature of the unit they were attached to, there were some growing pains for some that hadn't been on the line but it all eventually worked out.
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This was just a quick search so validate that this FM is still current.
FM 7-21.13
4-4. Courtesy among members of the Armed Forces is vital to maintain discipline. Military courtesy means good manners and politeness in dealing with other people. Courteous behavior provides a basis for developing good human relations. The distinction between civilian and military courtesy is that military courtesy was developed in a military atmosphere and has become an integral part of serving in uniform.
4-6. Military courtesy is not a one-way street. Enlisted personnel are expected to be courteous to officers and likewise officers are expected to return the courtesy. Mutual respect is a vital part of military courtesy. In the final analysis, military courtesy is the respect shown to each other by members of the same profession. Some of the Army’s more common courtesies include rendering the hand salute, standing at attention or parade rest, or even addressing others by their rank.
FM 7-21.13
4-4. Courtesy among members of the Armed Forces is vital to maintain discipline. Military courtesy means good manners and politeness in dealing with other people. Courteous behavior provides a basis for developing good human relations. The distinction between civilian and military courtesy is that military courtesy was developed in a military atmosphere and has become an integral part of serving in uniform.
4-6. Military courtesy is not a one-way street. Enlisted personnel are expected to be courteous to officers and likewise officers are expected to return the courtesy. Mutual respect is a vital part of military courtesy. In the final analysis, military courtesy is the respect shown to each other by members of the same profession. Some of the Army’s more common courtesies include rendering the hand salute, standing at attention or parade rest, or even addressing others by their rank.
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I saw this more with Air Force and Army Personnel. So many officers used to be enlisted in those services that I think they forget who they are now.
Not in the Navy. Few Commissioned Officers were ever enlisted and there is strict discipline against fraternization. When I was jogging years ago on the base I had to go completely around the officer housing area. The excuse given was that I might see something that might demean my respect for them as if I didn't see enough of that at work. Or the night I was on duty and a call came in on the radio that a certain officer's wife was chasing him around the housing area with a butcher knife. He was in a pair of boxers. Their next door neighbor was the Captain. They were moved off base the next day.
Not in the Navy. Few Commissioned Officers were ever enlisted and there is strict discipline against fraternization. When I was jogging years ago on the base I had to go completely around the officer housing area. The excuse given was that I might see something that might demean my respect for them as if I didn't see enough of that at work. Or the night I was on duty and a call came in on the radio that a certain officer's wife was chasing him around the housing area with a butcher knife. He was in a pair of boxers. Their next door neighbor was the Captain. They were moved off base the next day.
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Fine Call Him By His 1st Name NCO'S Earn Their Rank That's Why We Say Sgt or Cpl 1st Before the Name Plus You Can Always Ask Him To Fetch a Level Bubble Calibration Kit
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In my opinion, this shouldn't be an issue. I would o as far as to consider it boarding on fraternization, so long as it remains a select group of individuals. All encompassing, it is extremely unprofessional.
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Look In FM 7-21-13 it has lot of Information that Might help You the Chapter would you are asking is in Chap 3
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