Posted on Aug 14, 2015
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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The recent discussions on adding "In God we Trust" to police and other first responder vehicles all seem to go down the road of mixing state and religion. (or separation of church and state - same idea/concept). Some have even related it back to the Bill of Rights, Constitution, and other historical documents and our "founding fathers". I think the article gives a very nice perspective and reiterates my thoughts as well that God and religion are two very different things. Religion has a place in MY life, but it's 2nd PLACE! People are 1st PLACE!

http://www.rebjeff.com/blog/the-difference-between-god-and-religion
Posted in these groups: World religions 2 ReligionChurch logo ChurchTrust logo TrustSistine chapel image of god God
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LTC Stephen F.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert God tends to be used in texts and speech when the faith is associated with one God such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Lower case god is used in the Bible to refer to man-made gods of wood and stone and to people who looked at themselves as a god - long before Shirley Maclaine stood on a beach and said "I am God" in 2003 :-)
When asked what the greatest command was The Lord replied in Mathew chapter 22: 37 - 40 "Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. ’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
The way believers in Christ show our love to God is by loving people and as Christ taught this includes enemies - those who despitefully use us and persecute us.
The Declaration of Independence as the nation's primary founding document went further than the previous monarchies of Europe which all claimed their Kings were chosen by God. This nation broke from that tradition and sought to establish a non-monarchy system of government built on God-given inalienable rights versus rights bequeathed by a monarch and feudal society with lords and serfs.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-..."
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
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SSgt Alex Robinson - Just wanted to let you know that SGT Dannie T. McLaughlin did respond with a comment which is posted above along with my reply :-)
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SSgt Alex Robinson
SSgt Alex Robinson
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LTC Stephen F. - I did not see it. Thanks.
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SPC Joshua Heath
SPC Joshua Heath
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With respect, sir, we may disagree over who or what god/God Jefferson was referring to in the Declaration. As you noted, many of the founding fathers were deists, and Jefferson was assuredly one. "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" These terms fit many of the ideals of Natural Law, of which many of our inalienably rights derive. Effectively, from Jefferson's point of view (if I may be so bold to assume I understand him), if there is a God/god, the universe was set into motion with natural laws in place. Effectively, the world exists and these laws of nature exist, and therefore humanity is heir to them. In many ways, this cuts Jesus and the entire Judeo- Christian theology out of the equation. Yes, it assumes the universe was created, but it doesn't enforce any other portions of the Christian doctrine.
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
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SPC Joshua Heath - thank you for a well reasoned response. Jefferson most likely believed the deist point of view which was sometime referred to as the watchmaker ... who developed the intricate rules and processes which govern existence, set the in motion and then went on about "his" business doing other "things" :-)
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
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CMSgt Mark Schubert On my personal spiritual journey, I have a problem in the United States with any public entity using God versus using god. When it is capitalized, God is a name, a person, a singular entity as mentioned by SPC Joshua Heath. When god is not capitalized, then it is referring to the divine in general. If we want to use the general divine then no problem, the argument about religion, faith, spirituality, and all the Constitutional arguing that goes with it is rendered irrelevant.

Thing is, you will hear people who are atheists say "God Damn It!" That is less a reference to the god of the Abrahamic faiths, and more an expletive that could be replaced with any other expletive. By the same token, "Divine Damn It!" just wouldn't express the surprise, shock, anger, pain, etc... that caused the initial expletive to begin with.

I personally do not believe in the god of the bible. I think he is a great character in a work of fiction that was written as a moral guide, and book of laws for the Jewish People. I also think that a lot of what was written in there (as with all the mythos from ancient cultures) was written do to a lack of understanding of the world around them. Why is it bad to eat pork? Because they didn't know about food borne pathogens. They didn't understand that you can't undercook pork, and eat it without getting sick from it. What they did know is that people got very ill from it. They equated that with "God does not want us to eat this" so it was written in. Alcohol in Islam. Alcohol alters the state of the mind and body, therefore it must be god poisoning the body, therefore banned. A large portion of religious tenets are about control.

Now when it comes to God, god, gods, or goddesses compared to organized religion, the two do not mix well. Mainstream organized religion is about money and power. Those at the top live in opulent palaces, telling the masses that they need to keep sending their tithes to gain the favor of God. It has been the case for hundreds of years. Mainstream religion has caused more pain and suffering to mankind than anything else. From the time of the Romans, through the Spanish Inquisition, through modern times with the radicalized Islam, killing in the name of God has been a human endeavor for much of recorded history.

When I first started on my spiritual path, I used to say very mean spirited things about other paths. It wasn't until I came to two realizations that I stopped. The first was that if I wish to have my beliefs accepted and respected, then I need to show that same respect and acceptance of other's beliefs. Each person regardless of faith, spirituality, or even the absence of both is entitled to their beliefs, and should not be ridiculed for it. The second is that another person's beliefs have no bearing on my life. Why do I care if another person is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Pagan, or even Atheist? As long as they are not pushing it on me, and they are not a complete and total waste of human flesh let each be to their own beliefs.

On a personal note, I think "E Pluribus Unum" "We the People" or even "Semper Fidelis" (yes I am stealing from the Marine Corps) would be far better choices for our national motto as any of those indicates the true values that this nation was founded on.

LTC Stephen F.
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SPC Joshua Heath
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You, and others, seem assume that there is a god, or that there is only one god and that is the acceptable default expression of faith. The use of the term God to refer to a singular divinity is directly related to the Judeo-Christian/Abrahamic traditions, which have multiple religious expressions, but are still part of the same assumptive monotheistic worldview.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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This is all true - and to me, God is much more than an assumption.. :-) but that's a different story. The question is "Why do people think using the word "God" in something is religious?" In the article, I quote "It is my belief that many people who call themselves atheists are really just anti-religion. Maybe that's true for you, too. I think there is a difference between faith and religion." Does this apply to you? :-)
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SPC Joshua Heath
SPC Joshua Heath
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CMSgt Mark Schubert -

I'm not anti-religion. I'm a polytheist (Heathen/Asatru). There is a benefit to structured religious orthopraxy.
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Why do people think using the word "God" in something is religious?
PO1 John Miller
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
Chief, I think a lot of people just want something to be offended at!
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SSG Program Control Manager
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If our money had a picture of the United States that omitted Florida, couldn't people want to see a better representation used without being offended? All of us are not Theists, much less monotheists, so it's clearly not accurate.
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SCPO David Lockwood
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Because of what the word God represents. The all mighty. The holy Father.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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While that's true (for some) that does not mean God = religion. :-)
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SSG Program Control Manager
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CMSgt Mark Schubert - While such a statement isn't exclusive to one religion, there are several who do not share it. If you are taking a religious position on God, God is this or She isn't that... you are knee deep in religion.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
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CMSgt Mark Schubert, Every time I see, "IN GOD WE TRUST" I feel like religion is being shoved down my throat. I feel like someone is trying to bring me to Jesus. It is a major butt hurt event for me. What about separation of church and state? I don't feel like this but many do. I think its going a bit over board. That's like a woman seeing a picture of Bill Clinton and with this womanizing history and saying, "I feel like I am being sexually harassed.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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SSG (ret) William Martin
Wow - how the heck do you spend money? LOL! (just kidding)
I'm not sure why you would think that - God and religion are two very different things - and I agree with you - it's not right to "shove religion down ANYONE'S throat" and that is certainly not the model Jesus taught - and I beleive in. I do think that the US motto was largely adopted when a VERY high percentage of people DID believe in God - where as the latest info I could find shows now only 74% of Americans believe in God - and I can't help but wonder if that has something to do with our declining culture.. :-)
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SSG (ret) William Martin
SSG (ret) William Martin
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CMSgt Mark Schubert - "I don't feel like this but many do. I think its going a bit over board." Did you see that part?
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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SSG (ret) William Martin
I thought you were refering the the preceding questions - "What about separation of church and state?" Sorry - misunderstood that it was related to all of the above.. :-)
Then I can rephrase - "I'm not sure why ANYONE would think that." :-)
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MSgt Jim Wolverton
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I'm not religious and as I've said in another post, I'm not sure I really believe in God but I'm not offended and it doesn't bother me, I'm from the South and grew up in the church. I think that people are too sensitive and easily offended.
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CMSgt Mark Schubert
CMSgt Mark Schubert
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I hope you took the time to read the article - it's really good!
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SSgt Alex Robinson
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We are a superpower because of our actions. We have spent blood and treasure to help the oppressed and have saved numerous countries at various times in our history. WW I and WW II are perfect examples
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
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Did you mean to post this response under why-do-people-think-using-the-word-god-in-something-is-religious SSgt Alex Robinson?
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SSgt Alex Robinson
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Thanks for sharing
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SSgt Alex Robinson
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It is not necessarily a religious word. It depends on the use and intention of the person using it. Could be a description of the God Zeus , etc.
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SPC Joshua Heath
SPC Joshua Heath
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When it is capitalized, the default usage is for the Abrahamic God (Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah), whom is said to be a singular divine entity.
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