Posted on Feb 15, 2018
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Why do you think there are so many school shootings now as opposed to say 25 to 30 years ago? We all know that guns can’t shoot themselves, so obviously that is not the problem in my opinion. I honestly believe that there is a direct correlation between the rise of school shootings and the taking of God out of the classroom, and kids not getting a well deserved a** whooping. Thoughts on this?
Posted in these groups: Activeshooter Active ShooterOriginal Crime
Edited 6 y ago
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
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I don't think the issue can be distilled down to a "this is the reason why" situation. There are myriad reasons why the culture is so much different today. We can point to the removal of God, the Pledge, and respect for authority (teachers) from the classroom. We can also point to the breakdown of the family unit, tolerance of alternative lifestyles, political correctness, social media, moral decline, and "everyone is a winner" mentalities. It's just my opinion but I believe ALL of these play a part in the disintegration of society. We've removed the consequences of our actions and told our children that "hey, as long as YOU feel good it's OK". We've failed to teach our youth the value of life (human and otherwise). Let's not overlook the media's role in all of this as well. They've dramatized, sensationalized, and over-hyped each incident to the point these individuals are seeing similar events as their chance at immortal fame.

I don't have the answers. If I did, I would probably be sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave instead of grinding out a meager living in the foothills of the Smokies.
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SMSgt Personnel
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Agree....many factors to consider!
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SPC Sql/Business Intelligence Consultant
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Bullying and mobbing are common tactics used to gain social status. Find a weaker student, gang up on him/her with classmates, isolate, repeat. Bullying can have long-term mental consequences. Workplace shootings, as well as school shootings, are the result of bullying/mobbing action by colleagues/classmates.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
6 y
SMSgt (Join to see) - It shouldn't matter what the administration is or is not teaching kids, directly or by example. If Presidential example carries that much weight, there is a serious lack of parenting skill in the family.
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Leadership by example from the top down! The executive office of America should always set the very best values for all Americans! Basics values and mentoring starts at home but I’ll never excuse anyone who doesn’t represent themselves as a good Person for our Children act like! The truth is the truth about the Bullying my friend! Remember there’s always someone who will crush the Bully and set the proper example!
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SSG Todd McAllister
SSG Todd McAllister
6 y
SMSgt (Join to see) - So you're calling the president a bully and saying he should be setting the example? I agree, he should be setting the example, and he does in a lot of things. But let me ask this question, what other president has "set the example"? Reagan was a pretty decent guy by all accounts. I don't think we can call Clinton a good example, sex in the oval office with interns isn't what I want my kids emulating. Let's go back further, Kennedy, now he set a pretty good example, as long as you don't bring up that affair with Marilyn Monroe of course (presidential affairs while in office was a pretty common thing actually). I could go on but the point is, as Maj John Bell stated, we suffer from a serious lack of parental skills in our families. Don't like what the president says or does, teach your children to do better.
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SMSgt Personnel
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Agree to disagree! Yes we should all do our parts in being the best examples possible for our Children and all Americans within our society! Leadership starts at the top and spreading hate, division and propaganda has been pushed by all Administrations in the past! Teaching our children not to be hateful and insulting others! Also about human rights, equality and freedom for all Americans! My oath is to the Constitution and if anyone violates the Constitution why do we have one?
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
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Lack of proper discipline at home and school.
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Susan Foster
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Some really good responses here, and I can see all of them have merit. The question is: if you started tomorrow and put God back in the classroom and parents had to beat their kids, would it stop? I don't think so. I think it's way too complex and some of these things mentioned have had just as big an impact. I have never seen a kid who overcame their issues with an a** whooping, but perhaps you have. I think it's more about how they are parented, or lack thereof.
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Susan Foster
Susan Foster
6 y
1st Lt Rev. Dr. David Poedel - I'm so glad you worked through that and overcame the awful upbringing you had. I cannot even imagine how difficult it must have been. I have never seen a child raised that way who came out the better for it. God bless you!
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Susan Foster
Susan Foster
6 y
MSgt Kurt S. - I agree. I've never seen it help either. Love never fails, but anger and fear always do.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
>1 y
I grew up in a loving hosehold that beleived in discipline. I use the following phrase lovingly.."Mess up get jacked up". What I mean is that my parents disciplined me and my siblings when we misbehaved or got into trouble. When we were younger it was spanking and guess what...it hurt enough for me to remember not to do it again. As we got older they found different ways to hold us accountable. They started taking away privileges...for me it was hunting or fishing or just being outside. later it was driving privileges. However, whateer they did it was out of love and I knew why they were doing it...they didn't just spank me because they could...I truly could see the pain and disappointment in my fathers face when he spanked me and when it was over we talked about why and it worked...Today, this time out stuff...maybe it wokrs for some but not for all. Prime example...I was at a friends house for Christmas when I was stationed in North Dakota. Someone else brought their kid tothe party. The kid pick up crouqet balls and started dropping them on my frinds glass top table. His parents said please stop and we wish you would act better...guess what he kept doing it. The parents left the room and my friend leaned down to that kid and told him that if he picked up another ball and threw it at that table, he was going to wear his @$$ out. Guess what he sat quietly the rest of the night. With actions come accountability and I don't think we are teaching our kids that these days.
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Susan Foster
Susan Foster
>1 y
Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth - I never got spanked hard enough for it to be a big deterrent after I was very young. My father had been beaten by his father, and it affected how he felt about him, and never wanted us to feel the same. But he had a way of talking to me that was just as affected. And I was always punished out of love, in things like taking privileges away. I never spanked mine either--just decided it wasn't effective, but did discipline, and I believe there's a big difference. And a big difference when they know you do it out of love. But on the other hand, I think the handling of the ball was brilliant--he wasn't sure he wanted to get his a** whipped, and that alone was enough to stop it. Sometimes the behavior just needs to stop right then and there. I agree a lot of parents definitely aren't doing it--I've seen kids screaming and misbehaving in public and parents totally ignoring it (didn't want to break their spirit). That pendulum in those cases have definitely swung too far the other way.
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A1C Samuel Leggett
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Since the States closed virtually all mental health hospitals across the country decades ago, there is no place to place persons who have a mental disorder. That is until they break the law and end up in prison. Once the hospitals were closed down, some patients went into halfway homes, others released to parents/guardians who wanted them to "live a normal life". Many of these patients are on antidepressants and are not followed by a trained psychologist or psychiatrist, if they are even seen by a General Practitioner that would be a miracle.
The other problem is with today's youth, and twenty-somethings". They live in a world in which they played computer games during all of their informative years. Many have no social skills (talking online is not a social skill). Many are severe introverts and easily offended by other people's opinions that do not relate to their beliefs, but because they have no social skills they lash out. Some physically, others with whatever weapon that they can get their hands on, knife, ax or firearms.
We here about these mass causalities because the media has an agenda, and the sensationalism builds their ratings. We hear nothing about the daily shootings in large cities like Chicago, the New Your Boroughs, Durham or Charlotte, NC, etc. We only get to hear what the media cranks out to fuel the fire.
If we just opened up the mental health hospitals again, these people would get the help that they need. Oh yes, and it would create more jobs. Forget the usual hospital elitists, I mean janitors, electricians, plumbers, cooks, etc.
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Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
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Edited 6 y ago
And as we learned this evening, the FBI had the shooter on their radar (people reporting the persons actions, etc.) and the FBI did nothing.
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SMSgt Personnel
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Agree and wonder if that's part of the agenda for those who actually run America....the Corporations and the Media who are owned by whom?
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MSG Charles Turner
MSG Charles Turner
6 y
Sir,

It seems Politics are more deeply inset in our government than many of us thought!!!

TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING
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PVT Mark Brown
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I couldn't agree with you more. I am almost 70 and the way our families are run today is exceedingly different from back when I was raised. At times I thought my parents, particularly my father, were overbearing, unkind, downright mean. Now I know different. Wisdom sometimes arrives very late in life. Not only taking God out of the classroom but the flag and pledge is gone from many schools in California. I just do not understand.
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SMSgt Personnel
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America First has disappeared because it's all about making a Dollar!
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Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
6 y
Mark, Agree Completely.
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PO3 Phyllis Maynard
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SSG(P) (Join to see) I do believe at the top of the list that taking GOD out of the schools was the first big event that opened the door to anarcy. Now, it is not as elementary as this , but the foundation was lain. Next, that unbelief attitude took over the family. So if parents are not equipped with the relevant tools (for any project or belief), kids will follow the path leading out of their own homes ( of course, a child's home life is not the rule for bad behavior - parents are not responsible for every wrong committed by children). The spirit in which child abuse legislation was drafted has taken a dog dive and backfired in its' intent. The system became overwhelmed with calls of abuse by children who use the resource to protect their bad behavior and adults who wanted to make unnecessary problems for parents they disliked, which seems to have put the controllable behavior problems in the court systems and law enforcement systems lap. So, I firmly believe tearing GOD out of the school system was the catalyst for what we have now. Taking GOD out of law making, out of the courthouses, off of public lands and monuments, is (by my humble faith) gave permission for lawlessness to rise up and allow baby's, adolescences, teenagers, young adults to birth rage and misdirection into shooting peers.
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PO3 Phyllis Maynard
PO3 Phyllis Maynard
6 y
SPC David Willis I not speaking about the simplistic aspect of prayer at all. I speaking in terms of a bigger aspect of societal values, mores, taboos, that were important at the heart of the country that served as a beacon for what contributed to law, order, acceptable, unacceptable and so on. For example, concerning me personally, I wanted to be stationed far, far away from the US because I died at the thought that someone from home would see drinking and tell someone else that might would know another person from home. I did not want my grandmother to be disappointed in me. I respected what was a part of my grandmother's structure that kept my community good, respectful, honorable. I was speaking on another premise that transcends "small". As a matter of fact this is a good time to address COL Mikel J. Burroughs. That only picture of me that survived the fire is a picture I took in my dress whites for CO's inspection, whereby, I went out drinking the night before. I looked like a good ball because my head was spinning. My grandmother has been dead about 12 years and I was good and grown and my son was 16 years old; I concealed that picture from her
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SPC David Willis
SPC David Willis
6 y
PO3 Phyllis Maynard - Right, but you still drank and had a good time. Its not like I drink and then call my grandma and tell her how drunk I am haha. My point is though that you were still doing things that some may have considered immoral. Kids were drinking and smoking pot in the 60s and that's supposedly part of the "good ole days" Those kids are now grown and have healthy fully functioning grandchildren themselves. And all this was being done at a time where "god was in school"
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PO3 Phyllis Maynard
PO3 Phyllis Maynard
6 y
SPC David Willis,COL Mikel J. Burroughs not "good ball" "goofy ball". The power of that respect for my grandmother's beliefs caused me to sober up and that picture reminds me that choosing not to adhere to what contributed to good society in my community is still my shortcoming.
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PO3 Phyllis Maynard
PO3 Phyllis Maynard
6 y
SPC David Willis very good point. I'll only say one other thing to that. ...raise up a child in the way they should go and they will not depart... I guess I'm saying I had something to encourage me to return to a place that was "good" and "healthy" for me and others that I know.
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SGT Program Coordinator
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It get's the most attention at the moment in time and place.
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PO3 Curtis Tower
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I agree with your position that children are less supervised and disciplined in our day. One of the most damaging aspects of our social deterioration is that children's "rights" are being emphasized over their responsibilities. Couple that with the fact that children even up to the age of 18 see the world through an inexperienced and undeveloped lens. Children who walk out of class to "protest" election results are doing so without having even attended a civics class or a clear understanding of how our system works. It doesn't help that would-be adults in positions of influence are visibly acting just as immature, and doing so for the whole of society to see.

The break-down of the nuclear family is another factor. The old paradigm was a couple getting married and having children, raising them, then growing old together. Now, irresponsible sexual behavior with a lack of sense for responsibility is the norm. There was a time when being a single parent was the result of a divorce or death. Now single parenthood is something that is celebrated as a choice, rather than being respected out of a set of unfortunate circumstances.

Then there's social media. Social media is not "news" media, but everyone is influenced by things that are presented there. I, myself, have even allowed an item or two to ruffle my fur...that is, until I took a deep breath and attempted to get more perspective on the subject. Social media does one thing well, it isolates individuals from natural interaction with others. Isolation from others filters personalities and breeds ignorance in the nuances of reading others face to face. It also numbs individuals' empathy for one another. After all, it's "just a computer".

Which leads to the subject of violence in video games, which most parents unwittingly encourage because it keeps kids quiet and pacified for the most part. Get your head blown off in a war game? Simple, restart and go at it again...ignoring reality.

Then add our most recent ingredient into the mix..."You're special and unique so don't let anyone tell you that you can't be what you want to be." This has been the most perverted truth propagated in modern history. While it is true in the proper context, it has also been made to convey false entitlement. It has bred a sort of "Self Identification Du Jour" that will affect the masses for years to come. The notion that one can "self-identify" with being something that they are not, and will never be genetically, breeds confusion and division within a society where a modicum of virtue is required to exist in harmony with others.

I don't think that these issues are limited to children; however, childhood is where most of these issues begin. And there has been a disturbing trend with the ages of the perpetrators. I say that this is where we need to begin looking and taking steps to correct. In all solutions sought need to be carefully weighed and be spiritually and constitutionally sound.
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