Posted on Jun 2, 2015
Why does Garrison life continue to interject itself into our deployments?
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I am currently on my 4th deployment and it seems that each time I am deployed more and more of garrison life follows. Things that would not be a good idea in areas where you have IDF (Indirect Fire) happening i.e. organized PRT runs, APFT, organization functions, etc. I don’t object to these things and I am sure risk mitigation is being done but it seems that now a days commands are more focused on all of these aspects of Garrison life rather than the mission at hand. If anyone knows why please inform me or if you are experiencing the same thing let me know.
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Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 8
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Because if standards and discipline are not enforced Soldiers will do....for a lack of a better term, stupid shit!
Now I don't agree with unit runs, that's ridiculous however, MWR sponsored runs happen at least once a month. I am currently deployed to Bagram and the things I see Soldiers doing is out of control. There seems to be no supervision of enlisted Soldiers at all. The Green Bean is always packed, the MWR is always packed, Soldiers are wondering around aimlessly. It's pretty pathetic.
The APFT is a semi annual requirement. If the operational environment allows why wouldn't you conduct an APFT? Soldiers that are unsupervised by NCOs will sit around and do nothing for nine months, or they will lift weights and get so big they can't run 100 meters.
The reason discipline is so poor in the Army is because leaders let standards slip during deployments. It starts with little things like cuffing your sleeves, wearing eye pro that's not APEL approved, letting Soldiers un-tuck their P.T. shirts in the gym, etc. Once you let the little things slip you start a snowball effect.
I agree that some units go a little too far with some things in a deployed environment but discipline must be maintained whether deployed or back at home station in the U.S.
Now I don't agree with unit runs, that's ridiculous however, MWR sponsored runs happen at least once a month. I am currently deployed to Bagram and the things I see Soldiers doing is out of control. There seems to be no supervision of enlisted Soldiers at all. The Green Bean is always packed, the MWR is always packed, Soldiers are wondering around aimlessly. It's pretty pathetic.
The APFT is a semi annual requirement. If the operational environment allows why wouldn't you conduct an APFT? Soldiers that are unsupervised by NCOs will sit around and do nothing for nine months, or they will lift weights and get so big they can't run 100 meters.
The reason discipline is so poor in the Army is because leaders let standards slip during deployments. It starts with little things like cuffing your sleeves, wearing eye pro that's not APEL approved, letting Soldiers un-tuck their P.T. shirts in the gym, etc. Once you let the little things slip you start a snowball effect.
I agree that some units go a little too far with some things in a deployed environment but discipline must be maintained whether deployed or back at home station in the U.S.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you SGM!! I have made some of the same corrections with soldiers in my unit. I have gone as far as printing out the APEL approved list so that I could show soldiers. I am also ok with APFT but just not at the expense of the mission. SM being flow from one place to another just for a APFT at the cost or risk of the mission. Discipline has to be forefront like you said SGM. I continue to make the same corrections as well as others but we have to get all leaders on the same page.
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SFC (Join to see) Time, time, time...we have been in a place way too long and complacency has crept in, so now we are starting to come up with ideas that sometime don't pass the common sense test. Would like to say this is something new, but unfortunately, it isn't!
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SFC (Join to see), I feel that it's a sign of progress! Please hear me out... although I don't enjoy some of our garrison-standard activities, I like what it signifies. Ideally, there would be no "garrison standard" versus "combat standard."
If we were able to maintain our garrison standards (e.g. clean boots, saluting officers, weekly hair cuts, crisp and clean uniforms, PMCSing our vehicles weekly, etc.) at all times, 24x7x365, whether garrison or deployed, no matter our location, WE WOULD. However, if we're short-staffed or feeling overwhelmed by our enemies, our enemies can see that they are winning because it's obvious we're sleep-deprived, dirty, lacking discipline, and have ill-prepared equipment.
Establishing garrison standards in our war zones is a signal to the enemy. They can see that we consider them to be no big deal because we're doing business as usual and not sweating them at all.
If we were able to maintain our garrison standards (e.g. clean boots, saluting officers, weekly hair cuts, crisp and clean uniforms, PMCSing our vehicles weekly, etc.) at all times, 24x7x365, whether garrison or deployed, no matter our location, WE WOULD. However, if we're short-staffed or feeling overwhelmed by our enemies, our enemies can see that they are winning because it's obvious we're sleep-deprived, dirty, lacking discipline, and have ill-prepared equipment.
Establishing garrison standards in our war zones is a signal to the enemy. They can see that we consider them to be no big deal because we're doing business as usual and not sweating them at all.
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SFC (Join to see)
The only issue I see with that SPC Thundercloud is that SM with treat it like Garrison and forget that they are in areas with real danger. I have seen to much of it already. SM are worried about what movie is playing or going out to the MWR instead of the real threat that they are there for. In a single word it is complacency. SM forget that they can get hurt or even worse don't take it seriously.
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Motor stables will come next my friend! Look out, here comes another police call!
Good luck over there brother!
Good luck over there brother!
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The thing to keep in mind is that a deployment today is not the same thing as a deployment back in 2005. While the "threat" does exist, it is not near where it was. We can implement the garrison life a little more into the deployed life because Soldiers generally have the time/ability to do it.
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Because the CSM is bored? When you have rooms/bunks/a PX/etc it seems like garrison, even though there are those that would kill you right out the wire. War today is not like it was even 20 or 25 years ago. Troops have laptops and facetime with home and cell phones.
WOW
Perhaps, and I am just guessing as an Old retired fart that it seems more like garrison because it is more like garrison.
WOW
Perhaps, and I am just guessing as an Old retired fart that it seems more like garrison because it is more like garrison.
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The difference between line troops and REMFs. I noticed that when I went from a Line Infantry Company in the 199th Inf Bde to a Corps Signal Bn at IIFFV. Life on the Plantation, much like being CONUS, was much different than being in the bush. When we were back at Bde rear, no one messed with us.
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MSG Thomas Currie
This is a nine year old thread that RP has just popped up in "Recent Discussions"
I'd say one of the biggest reasons that "Garrison life" was (and undoubtedly still is) interjecting during deployments was that most ground force deployments were predominantly garrison duty. Yes, there might be the potential risk of an occasional rocket or drone, but no one from E-3 to O-10 really took those risks seriously on a day to day basis.
Some comments have suggested that "Garrison Life" consists of the discipline that is essential to maintaining an effective force. I have mixed feelings about that. The most effective combat unit I served with recognized a completely unofficial but still clear distinction between the standards and procedures in garrison and in the field (plus a mid level for field when "higher" was around). I'd say this was true of just about all Combat Arms units although the Army does still have some general officers who would throw a Pattonesque fit over soldiers not wearing ties in combat.
I'd say one of the biggest reasons that "Garrison life" was (and undoubtedly still is) interjecting during deployments was that most ground force deployments were predominantly garrison duty. Yes, there might be the potential risk of an occasional rocket or drone, but no one from E-3 to O-10 really took those risks seriously on a day to day basis.
Some comments have suggested that "Garrison Life" consists of the discipline that is essential to maintaining an effective force. I have mixed feelings about that. The most effective combat unit I served with recognized a completely unofficial but still clear distinction between the standards and procedures in garrison and in the field (plus a mid level for field when "higher" was around). I'd say this was true of just about all Combat Arms units although the Army does still have some general officers who would throw a Pattonesque fit over soldiers not wearing ties in combat.
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Bloody Daft isn't it. Spit Shine, Pomp and Ceremony is all well and good back here in the Good Old USA but really has no place in a War Theater. I understand where you are coming from. It would be like us Painting the ship stem to stern while on Picket Duty. Makes more sense just before we pull into home port.
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