Why does the Army appear to have a discipline issue with the lower enlisted ranks?

A lot of the young soldiers have been too pampered in their lives and don't like to be told what to do or not do. Everybody is equal, all get a trophy, etc... I saw this already in 2002 before I retired after 28 yrs of svc.

The concern over military discipline is a valid one. However, I have been through this with the Marines and the Army from 1961 through 1993. I was a Marine from 1961 - 1967 and an Army Green Beret from 1967 / 1994. I experianced some disrespect for those in authority. The Marines handled with Article 15’s and loss of rank. The Army gave the offender more rope to hang hisself, then lowered the hammer hard. They both had morale problems afterwards. Some came around and it was a win, some didn’t and were discharged with various discharges that fit the charges in the board or authority pressing charges.

Sir and not being a dick here just my observations. I have been Retired since 1996 and have overtly watched the decline of the US ARMY that I served in. My opinion if you want excellent information for your white paper. Just hang around on rally point look at questions asked, Then see the answers I have seen in one thread where you get three totally different answers too one small leadership question/situation. RP is full of these kind of examples. Soldiers saying " its just a job just like any other civilian job" and seniors both Officer and NCO'S agree with them.

Unfortunately when the Senior leadership see's it "Just as a job like any other job" That is all you have.
When you have civilians telling the Military how to run the show, what leadership is, what discipline is, What to do with a Soldier When Charged with,? My opinion once the civilians get that involved you are doomed to fail and especially when you have Seniors agreeing with the Civilians. How did this happen? Well I have my opinions how ever some times you have to decide if you want to attack that Hill at this time or not. This is one of those times that I will have to admit that Hill 429 is going to be their tomorrow.
Best information is right here on RP in the questions asked and by whom, And how they are answered and by whom. Hope this helps. Good luck with your with paper and Thank you for your service.

My first thought is in general the younger generation has gegraded in itself.

I've been out 50 years, but what I saw then and in the jobs I have had since then have not changed. Lack of respect and discipline in the lower ranks start with lack of respect and discipline in the upper ranks, NCO and Officer. If you are a Corporal, Buck Sgt. or Staff Sgt then the E-1 through E-4's are not your buddies. By the same token, E-7's and E-8's are not your buddies. They should be your teachers to prepare you to advance to the higher level as you should be teaching the lower ranks to improve themselves. You need to remember, once upon a time you too were a Private and did the same stupid things that they are doing now. When I was promoted to Sgt I was moved out of the bay with all the Spc. 4's and to a NCO bay. I was moved from my platoon I had been in for a year and to another platoon. 3 of us were promoted the same day and the First Sgt explained to us that we were no longer "enlisted men" but NCO's and had new responsibilities. 2 months later two of us were still Sgt's and one was a Spc. 4 again. He did not want to be a Sgt and leave his buddies.
I saw the same thing in the officer's ranks. Our company CO's were usually 2nd Lts and not much past the learning stage. But Maj. Lucino the Bn XO and LTC Robert Greenberg the Bn C.O were outstanding if you needed help. They were always available to help their troops from PFC to SFC's .
Now in 14 months in Nam I never met the BN commander or his XO. I think he flew into our compound once while I was on a convoy. The BN Sgt Maj. stayed as well hidden as they did. Our company commander was a drunk. He thought nothing of coming to the NCO hooch at 2am and waking us up to drink Schlitz with him. If he went on one of our convoys he took his cooler with beer with him. He was a nice guy and a good guy but not a good officer.

It might be a symptom of how the culture is shifting, away from the old rigid standards!

1SG the Army has not catered to generational changes lack of and poor leadership has done that, disrespect should not ever be tolerated, two things a solder hates to lose is time and money AR 15 can do both

I could ask the same of NCOs and officers who had little or no discipline at all, even in 2008 and such. You want to discriminate on a select group of the most underprivileged, overworked and intimidated group of the military, and you expect them to act as kiss-ass robot doormats for NCOs who may or may not have *earned* their rank, or officers whose only merit of holding the rank is in possessing a college degree. I find your belittlement and condescending nature typical for an officer, but also disturbing.

On another note, here in the Army, while in rare cases there are issues with a lack of genuine respect, it's far more common that we treat each other like family. Officers are our parents or big brothers/sisters, down through NCOs to the lower enlisted. The Army is a family unit. Is it truly a lack of respect, or bonding between family?

Ah, I see you're a Marine. Well there you go. Perhaps since most Marines (vast majority) come from broken or extremely dysfunctional families, you might not understand this analogy.

Nevertheless, when in war-time, we take things very seriously because our lives are on the line, and the lives of our family of soldiers and battle buddies around us are also in our hands.

The Marines are a strike force, a shock and awe surgical tool designed to batter the enemy before sending in the Army to clean house. It's more important therefore that they are always focused and rigid and "hard ass", or robotic, that they function at their maximum capacity to do the job they're required of, which is a source of constant stress and pressure, as they are typically taxi'd around the world by the Navy and sent into whatever combat scenario they're expected to do.

Fortunately, the Army is not the Marines, or else there would be a lot more suicides happening after they get out.....

I believe it starts with the parents of recruits/trainees. These kids have lived a life of not getting disciplined, and back talking and the parents just let them because they’re so worried about being their friend. The kids now believe that you need to cater to them, which in turn has forced the Army’s hand into doing so. So now you literally have brats that join for either school, or just because they wanna look cool. Look at some of your soldiers profiles and see how they pose in Snapchat stories with their uniforms. It’s about image for them, but they hate being told what to do. And the army allows a PV2 to have power enough to back talk his/hers higher ups.

This is problematic and symbolizes the civilian problem at a much closer view.

Call it what it is, lack of discipline and respect growing up, thinking they are entitled. When these individuals enter service is the time to mold them teach them, stress card my butt. Things have changed so much, Officers aren't staying in their lane and letting NCOs do their job. NCOs letting Officers do there job, I come from a generation where NCOs lead the way. NCOs train your Soilders to do your job give them responsibility and hold them to a standard. You'd be surprised

Isn't obvious? A generation expecting entitlements and it is not only the enlisted personnel, it all throughout the whole armed forces at almost all levels. The brass is allowing it and they are the biggest responsible (or irresponsible) for it.
I started in 1996 and left in 2001 wanting to come back and rejected due to a physical injury in 2003. Because I could not come back, I became a civilian chemist while most my buddies went from enlisted personnel to officers ranks.
My buddies are the embodiment of success through sheer intelligence and persistence. However, when I speak with about half of them (still serving), they act like children and do not know what is going on around the world. This is part of their job, to understand and act to protect our country. The top brass that allows for this immaturity must pay regardless of rank and position. Discipline starts at the top and unfortunately, it supposed to start with our commander in chief (not to be political but behavior critical). That is not happening and so, how do you expect to impart discipline when the mature and the military top brass act like entitled children?

Yes, this is long but it goes a long way to be a little more insightful and consider the different aspects of why it is of what you see. Of course there is a broad range of multiple issues but I emphasize clearly on the well-being of soldiers.

It is the lack of commitment, trust, and competence of leaders who allow disrespect and indiscipline to run rampant. Although I would love to introduce the motion of political integration, instead I will focus on what truly matters.

Upon entering service we are indoctrinated about the values in leadership, as well as how it is implemented, but most of all our commitment to the welfare of soldiers. Units rely heavily on the individual efforts of troops, especially Non-Commissioned Officers and their subordinates upon mission accomplishment. New soldiers to their first unit are motivated and willing to perform but over time being overlooked for skill level expansion and overworked without recognition or much needed mentorship to excel can and will evolve soldiers to become less compliant or the common ‘shitbag’ status perceived we all love to share.

I’ve seen many soldiers who seemed perfect in fact, but due to leadership and the works of our system they get burnt or just exit service altogether realizing the propaganda of recruitment well overrated as well as their potential best utilized elsewhere. Those who have stayed in, either complain and do nothing or idle by on benefits along for the ride of early retirement, unless you have other reasons for staying in.

It is challenging to find good leaders who not only empower soldiers to better themselves but be reliable and trustworthy. Understandably many leaders lose competence over the focus of progression and with the army changing promotions and performance expectations this not only encourages this but also strays further from soldiering in order to meet desired standards. I could invest time to train soldiers but time for myself to involve civilian education, military schools, and performance upon duties & responsibilities, not to mention taking on additional tasks for broadening evaluation performance is literally drained. Don’t forget you’re mix of training requirements, mandatory monthly briefings, and the mission requirements leaving you blown away at the thought of anything more than counseling’s as a resolve. Although how many of you honestly keep up with those? Also for those who do more to make connections and various achievements, good for you.

Also important to note these qualities mean nothing when seeking key positions in order for better chances of guaranteed promotion and progression. A pulled record brief and interview will value the personality and the preferred background performance of the individual whether they fit the bill or not. So don’t stress the importance of being a good leader just whether or not you can fulfill the job requirements expected of you. Quite interesting but sometimes for the best.

I can’t entirely blame leaders for not being leaders through responsibilities and expectations but preventable deaths and consistent disappointment in the system to better the lives of soldiers has taken its toll. The lack of discipline reflects this with acknowledging there are different forms of respect and undisciplined behavior. There is always drama with soldiers over leaders and consistent childish behavior especially with social media but well deserved to how these leaders are leaders in the first place. I must say it is an embarrassment to see more junior soldiers competent in their MOS over non-commissioned officers including things leaders should already know again trumped by junior soldiers. Substandard. Do you not know the implications of that?

So we could look at generational changes, pathetic parenting in what kids are as of now, but lets be realistic and take a deep breath. What we have going on within upon the health verses wealth debate. But yes, it is much different to the Marines Corps of course and your perception of discipline far from what I could maybe imagine to be or out of this world. Personally I lead in a way soldiers can trust as well as confide in me at anytime and provide independence within their roles to strengthen confidence and competence.

It is annoying to see those junior soldiers who have acted like some of the responses below just knowing then I would have been knocked out on the spot but really because they proceed to run to IG or whatever program to hide behind for their actions. They have yet to meet the fear of god honestly.

Curiously, what do you do to enhance soldiers for success and the perceived expectation of discipline? Also for those undisciplined and disrespectful, what resolved it?

Start in bootcamp. Return to sixties level. Do not let anyone out of boot without meeting strict standards of behavior and discipline. Actually punish wrong-doers with article 15. It that does not work move it up to spec ct martial. Assign hard labor for those found guilty. Make sure everyone else sees the example. Sweat in training or bleed in combat.

Bring back hazing or at least real smoke sessions. Get rid of entitlement in the ranks. Having leadership that cares enough to discipline, but also to teach. I have had some amazing NCOs who have smoked the dog shit out of me and who commanded respect, but they’re the same ones I would run through a wall for. I’d follow them into combat any day, in any situation. They are the ones who also taught me how to be tactically and technically proficient. They built trust and set clear expectations. They took ownership of the team, squad, platoon, etc. To the point that it made me want to be better and take more ownership over what I could control to try and pull some burden off their back. The Army has hamstrung it’s good leaders and promoted to many unqualified leaders who could run well. When boards become about finding the intangibles instead of seeing who can regulations and creeds or pt scores pissing contests then they will begin to see a culture change again

From what I've seen, standards have been lowered,to accommodate our new troops. Can't understand why,the military would be willing to coddle them. We were a tight knit unit all the way through basic. after we got our assignment, were expected to carry ourselves according to military protocol. If not disciplinary action was taken.

IMO, when the military started giving out participation awards and becoming a social club(gender issues, non-deployment, lowering of standards) vs. killing people and breaking things =. The military as a whole started down a path that it is having problems recovering from today.

I believe it has more to do with an easing of the punishments, at training level, for lack of respect infractions. I don't know if they still exist (though I know they once did) but I heard some stories about "time-out" cards being issued to basic trainees. I was in before they existed. That added to this "everything is offensive to somebody" mentality that seems to be permeating our culture is surely a big part of what you're seeing.

The military reflects the greater society if comes from. Young people today are not as disciplined as older veterans. They were raised to be selfish, not selfless. A generalization for sure but I believe it to be true. From what I've read, the Marines are not as disciplined now as they once were but I don't have your cross service experience.

It appears the Marines are not quite the role model for discipline and respect these days either. Looks like there is a white papers worth of screw ups just at Camp LeJune. ;)

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/05/02/crackdown-at-lejeune-inside-the-2nd-marine-division-commanders-controversial-call-for-discipline/