Posted on Jul 29, 2019
Capt Michael Wilford
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Please understand, I am NOT bagging on the Army here, I am simply asking a question based on my own observations. I served two tours on two different Army posts and witnessed first hand how lower enlisted soldiers (PV1 through SPC) interacted with soldiers of higher rank (CPL through SSG) and I found their lack of respect and lack of discipline to be a bit disturbing. So, my deeper question is this; is this perceived problem of discipline due to the size of the Army as compared to the Marine Corps where we do not have this type of discipline issue, is it due to smaller unit cohesion, or is it something else? I am writing a white paper on military discipline and any information will be helpful. Remember, at the end of the day, we are one military with different missions toward the same end goal, so please do not use this thread as a means to bash other branches of service. I have not done that to the Army; I have great respect for the Army and for its mission and I am simply looking for others' observations about discipline.
Posted in these groups: Discipline1 DisciplineEnlisted logo EnlistedUcmj UCMJ
Edited 6 y ago
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Todd Rasmussen
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While this may be an Army wide phenomenon, I have seen it manifest itself in society as a whole as a lack of respect. I am a retired teacher, and a couple of years ago, I had a mother come to me and tell me in no uncertain terms that HER son would not call me sir. I was shocked. If I had not called a teacher sir or ma'm, my 1st Sgt dad might not have let me see the next morning.
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SGT Larry Holland
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Too many parents run to protect their baby, by calling their Congress members who run down there to pit someone in their place instead of telling the parents that their baby is an adult & their adult child decided to join the Army (in this case) & tell need to go sit down somewhere. It doesn't help when politicians want to play games with the military either.
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SFC Philip Ogden
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Discipline in the Army. First you must gain respect. Once you gain their respect. Then the Soldiers will have more discipline. If the Soldiers don't like you then they will not have Discipline. Discipline comes with the morale of the United. If you have a chain of command that doesn't care about the troops. The morale is down which deals with discipline.
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Cpl Vic Burk
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I think some of it is the fact that the majority of the lower enlisted ranks are young and immature still. They are testing the waters to see what they can get away with often. The Marines seemed to me to have much stricter expectations of the character of our branch. Yes, we also had some screw offs that needed a lesson or two (sometimes more) to get their act together. It didn't always work and after a while of dealing with them they were given an undesirable discharge. That was a last resort when nothing else really worked.
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SPC Edward Abney
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I would have thought that the "All Volunteer Army" would not have the lack of discipline and respect that seems to be a real problem these days. Is it possible that recruiting standards have been lowered too much? Is it possible that this problem is shared by NCO's and Jr. enlisted?
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SSG Edward Tilton
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You wouldn’t have lasted a week in the Draftee Army. I was often an 18 year old, non high school graduate, Sergeant with a platoon of 23-24 year olds with some college. Yelling only made you look silly. The idea was to keep them focused on the mission, they wanted to get done as much as I did
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SSG Bill McCoy
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Capt Wilford, I think it's as much the result of how the current generation of (many; perhaps even most) soldiers today were raised. Same old stuff --- tropies for LOSING; advancing through elementary and high school regardless of grades, etc. I had a principal tell me once during a Sheriiff's drug orienttion program for parents, "Our primary mob is to get these kids, THROUGH the system and OUT of school." She was dead serious, and I looked at her and bluntly stated, "Obviously EDUCATION isn't in your sylabus or your goals!" Fortunately, she only lasted ONE school year.
Recruits for many years now are pushed trough BCT and their MOS schools the same way. I once had a PV2 who was actually ILLITERATE ... every report he would write was spelled phonetically - such as:
Laceration was lassarashun, etc. When I had his partner re-write the DD Form 2823 with a Q&A format, when the kid signed it, he had to take his ID card out and copy his signature by DRAWING it! I asked how he signed the ID and he said, "My Drill Sergeant did it." We eventually got him chaptered out, but he's an example of how some instructors FAIL THE ARMY and also the Recruits.
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SGT Air Defense Radar Repairer
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Simple there is a problem in leadership.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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For the same reason all the other branches do. We recruit children off the streets before their brains have even finished developing (human brain doesn't finish developing until approximately age 25).
From a biological standpoint, the bulk of the armed forces are cognitively impaired.
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SPC Ryan Vanlaanengregory
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Could possibly come from 20+ years of toxic leadership on all levels that's run unchecked because of constant rotations. Even though the ARMY knows it's there, that it's costing them billions in attrition rates. They make the minimal effort to deal with it. How can you have respect for leadership that's constantly unchecked with known sexual assaults, domestic violence, substance abuse issues, etc...
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
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If I had to hazard a guess, such disrespect is more likely to occur in places like Afghanistan, rather than other, non-combat areas. I've not looked for any peer-reviewed studies, etc., and this is simply my own opinion on the matter. (Similar things occurred during the Vietnam War...)
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Capt Robert Vincelette
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I was in the military back n the 1970's and have not seen this unfortunate cultural decline in America, but I saw it coming. Recruiting commercials targeted less disciplined market researched pop culture fans to make recruiting quotas.
But I did not see how far it would go till I years later I earned my PhD and taught at two universities. Freshmen students who must have cheated they way high school math came to university unable to do 6th grade arithmetic, especially adding or subtracting fractions. In class they always come late and in class they exchange text messages rather than take notes and wait till the last day to do their homework and prepare for their final exams. When they fail they try to negotiate for a passing grade.
I think this decline in culture affects the military too.
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SFC James Corona
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Weak Chain of Command without high standard value support.
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Cpl Ernest Thomas
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From someone that was both Marine and a Soldier. In the Corps we are the best in the world. In the Army (beit active, reserve, NG), it's a joke! I watched Army Staff NCO's act like 6th graders, have complete disregard for the soldiers well being under them and yet demand respect while acting like a child themselves. How are young troops supposed to have any respect for their leadership when the leadership has zero discipline themselves?
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SPC Chris Ison
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You know what you did not say? What kind of unit it was.

This shit doesn't fly in line companies.

But in Aviation, Medical, and Intelligence it does.

In aviation it is because of the relationship between the aircrew and maintenance, you piss mechanic off and you die.

In medical it is because the officers are not combat oriented and the relationship between the enlisted is very close.

In intelligence it is, generally, because the enlisted have more responsibility than an infantryman.
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SSG Donald Donnie Foerch Jr.
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I was a Reservist on active duty from Sept. 25th 2001-October 2003. I had a pvt call me “Dog” I saw privates and specialist totally disrespectful to an NCO when I asked the NCO why he didn’t jump on his ass he said it doesn’t matter his command doesn’t care and won’t do anything anyway.
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SFC Melvin Brandenburg
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We're too busy managing their feelings.
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MSG Kenny Lane
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The Army has gone soft in my opinion. You have to be so concerned about their feelings , that what you say can be misunderstood and you end up on the carpet talking to the old man because you swore at some troop. The basic training I believe has not done us any justice. I as an E-8 had a E-2 fresh out of AIT , STAND AND TALK TO WITH HER HANDS IN HER POCKETS.....WTF IS THIS ...SERIOUSLY.
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SGT Frank-John Limiero
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The lack of respect comes before these individuals join the military. Many don't do it for "God and Country" but rather a good paying job with plenty of entitlement benefits. Today's military culture has changed from what it was; simple changes like discipline, mixed genders, physical demands, active homosexuals, even KP duty. Compare nobodies lack of respect with Combat Veterans, you'll see a big difference.
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SGT Tomas Lopez
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I would say it is because of the government getting involved with what we do as soldiers and not letting us run the Army the way we were taught to run it.
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