Posted on Jul 29, 2019
Capt Michael Wilford
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Please understand, I am NOT bagging on the Army here, I am simply asking a question based on my own observations. I served two tours on two different Army posts and witnessed first hand how lower enlisted soldiers (PV1 through SPC) interacted with soldiers of higher rank (CPL through SSG) and I found their lack of respect and lack of discipline to be a bit disturbing. So, my deeper question is this; is this perceived problem of discipline due to the size of the Army as compared to the Marine Corps where we do not have this type of discipline issue, is it due to smaller unit cohesion, or is it something else? I am writing a white paper on military discipline and any information will be helpful. Remember, at the end of the day, we are one military with different missions toward the same end goal, so please do not use this thread as a means to bash other branches of service. I have not done that to the Army; I have great respect for the Army and for its mission and I am simply looking for others' observations about discipline.
Posted in these groups: Discipline1 DisciplineEnlisted logo EnlistedUcmj UCMJ
Edited 6 y ago
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Todd Rasmussen
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While this may be an Army wide phenomenon, I have seen it manifest itself in society as a whole as a lack of respect. I am a retired teacher, and a couple of years ago, I had a mother come to me and tell me in no uncertain terms that HER son would not call me sir. I was shocked. If I had not called a teacher sir or ma'm, my 1st Sgt dad might not have let me see the next morning.
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SGT Larry Holland
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Too many parents run to protect their baby, by calling their Congress members who run down there to pit someone in their place instead of telling the parents that their baby is an adult & their adult child decided to join the Army (in this case) & tell need to go sit down somewhere. It doesn't help when politicians want to play games with the military either.
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SFC Philip Ogden
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Discipline in the Army. First you must gain respect. Once you gain their respect. Then the Soldiers will have more discipline. If the Soldiers don't like you then they will not have Discipline. Discipline comes with the morale of the United. If you have a chain of command that doesn't care about the troops. The morale is down which deals with discipline.
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Cpl Vic Burk
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I think some of it is the fact that the majority of the lower enlisted ranks are young and immature still. They are testing the waters to see what they can get away with often. The Marines seemed to me to have much stricter expectations of the character of our branch. Yes, we also had some screw offs that needed a lesson or two (sometimes more) to get their act together. It didn't always work and after a while of dealing with them they were given an undesirable discharge. That was a last resort when nothing else really worked.
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SPC Edward Abney
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I would have thought that the "All Volunteer Army" would not have the lack of discipline and respect that seems to be a real problem these days. Is it possible that recruiting standards have been lowered too much? Is it possible that this problem is shared by NCO's and Jr. enlisted?
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SSG Edward Tilton
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You wouldn’t have lasted a week in the Draftee Army. I was often an 18 year old, non high school graduate, Sergeant with a platoon of 23-24 year olds with some college. Yelling only made you look silly. The idea was to keep them focused on the mission, they wanted to get done as much as I did
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SSG Bill McCoy
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Capt Wilford, I think it's as much the result of how the current generation of (many; perhaps even most) soldiers today were raised. Same old stuff --- tropies for LOSING; advancing through elementary and high school regardless of grades, etc. I had a principal tell me once during a Sheriiff's drug orienttion program for parents, "Our primary mob is to get these kids, THROUGH the system and OUT of school." She was dead serious, and I looked at her and bluntly stated, "Obviously EDUCATION isn't in your sylabus or your goals!" Fortunately, she only lasted ONE school year.
Recruits for many years now are pushed trough BCT and their MOS schools the same way. I once had a PV2 who was actually ILLITERATE ... every report he would write was spelled phonetically - such as:
Laceration was lassarashun, etc. When I had his partner re-write the DD Form 2823 with a Q&A format, when the kid signed it, he had to take his ID card out and copy his signature by DRAWING it! I asked how he signed the ID and he said, "My Drill Sergeant did it." We eventually got him chaptered out, but he's an example of how some instructors FAIL THE ARMY and also the Recruits.
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SGT Air Defense Radar Repairer
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Simple there is a problem in leadership.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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For the same reason all the other branches do. We recruit children off the streets before their brains have even finished developing (human brain doesn't finish developing until approximately age 25).
From a biological standpoint, the bulk of the armed forces are cognitively impaired.
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SPC Ryan Vanlaanengregory
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Could possibly come from 20+ years of toxic leadership on all levels that's run unchecked because of constant rotations. Even though the ARMY knows it's there, that it's costing them billions in attrition rates. They make the minimal effort to deal with it. How can you have respect for leadership that's constantly unchecked with known sexual assaults, domestic violence, substance abuse issues, etc...
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