Posted on Sep 13, 2016
Would an E9 comply if ordered to attention by an O1?
278K
3.51K
960
289
289
0
Responses: 606
I'm just here to read stories about butter bars getting destroyed by Sergeant Majors
(397)
(0)
LTC Miguel Sepulveda
A good E9 will never let a situation to get to that point, it happened to me once as a1LT and latter as a CPT not to call him to attention, but to at ease, I was correct both times, I did get stupid with a 1SG as 2LT and got my ass handed to me by both the 1SG and the CO
(4)
(0)
PO1 Jess Ryska
SGM (Join to see) - Not to sound like a complete ass, but you 2 sound like little bitches! The "s" is plural as you now rank higher than most other sergeants!
(1)
(0)
SPC Roy Everett
I saw our Captain call the 1st Sgt. to at ease. The 1st Sgt. replied, "F**K at ease". Another time they stepped out behind the O Club and "stripped blouses".
(1)
(0)
SGM Robert Gentner
As A Sergeant Major I knew 15 ways to say YES SIR! and make it sound like curse words. Had one "fight" with an 04. Invited him into his office and chewed his ass out. I was about 5 years his elder. He went to commander (an 06) who called me in and asked my side of the story? I said "The major said what?" He told me what the Major said happened (Pretty accurate actually) I Said "I wonder why he would say that?" Commander asked are you denying it? I said "No, but I haven't been read my rights!" Commander said "For what?" I said "Yes Sir!" He dismissed me. Never had another problem with the 04.
(0)
(0)
Story time, not witnessed, told often to make a point. Not an E9 but an E5 if I remember correctly.
A young 2nd Lt was walking across the parade deck when a Sgt passed by without saluting. The 2nd Lt comes to a halt and orders the Sgt to halt, about face and come here. The Sgt locks it up in front of the Lt. The Lt goes on to berate the Sgt for not saluting an officer. Finally, the Lt orders the Sgt to render 100 salutes to the Lt.
While this is happening, Col Chesty Puller walks by, slows down and comes on over as he sees the Sgt saluting over and over again. He asks the Lt what is going on. The Lt explains the situation. Col Puller nods and says "Very well. Carry on.", turns to leave, then turns back. He then says "Lt, it is every officer's duty to return every salute rendered to him.", then turns and leaves.
A young 2nd Lt was walking across the parade deck when a Sgt passed by without saluting. The 2nd Lt comes to a halt and orders the Sgt to halt, about face and come here. The Sgt locks it up in front of the Lt. The Lt goes on to berate the Sgt for not saluting an officer. Finally, the Lt orders the Sgt to render 100 salutes to the Lt.
While this is happening, Col Chesty Puller walks by, slows down and comes on over as he sees the Sgt saluting over and over again. He asks the Lt what is going on. The Lt explains the situation. Col Puller nods and says "Very well. Carry on.", turns to leave, then turns back. He then says "Lt, it is every officer's duty to return every salute rendered to him.", then turns and leaves.
(365)
(0)
PO1 (Join to see)
Some JO’s I work with have remarked that they’re always rendering or returning salutes and that’s a regret for putting their officer packages.
(0)
(0)
This reminds me of a true story from the mid 80s.
Not exactly the same scenario you proposed, but similar.
CSM is in the S3 shop, when a new 2LT walked in.
CSM says "Good Morning".
2LT "You mean to say, Good morning SIR"
CSM crushes out cigarette, takes a drink of coffee, stands face to face with the young lieutenant and says:
You know what, SIR? I'm retiring in a few short months and once I do there are three things I'll never do again.
1. I'll never get out of bed before 0600 unless I'm going hunting or fishing.
2. I'll never run again unless I'm being chased by someone or something much bigger than I am.
and 3. I will NEVER, EVER, CALL ANOTHER BOY SIR!
and left the room. Shortly afterward, the young man had a 'come to Jesus' meeting with the CSM, XO and Bde Cdr. He was a new man after that!
Not exactly the same scenario you proposed, but similar.
CSM is in the S3 shop, when a new 2LT walked in.
CSM says "Good Morning".
2LT "You mean to say, Good morning SIR"
CSM crushes out cigarette, takes a drink of coffee, stands face to face with the young lieutenant and says:
You know what, SIR? I'm retiring in a few short months and once I do there are three things I'll never do again.
1. I'll never get out of bed before 0600 unless I'm going hunting or fishing.
2. I'll never run again unless I'm being chased by someone or something much bigger than I am.
and 3. I will NEVER, EVER, CALL ANOTHER BOY SIR!
and left the room. Shortly afterward, the young man had a 'come to Jesus' meeting with the CSM, XO and Bde Cdr. He was a new man after that!
(230)
(0)
CPL Bobby McKellar
Dear God...this moron is still at it! Still hasn't figured out that he's just making a fool of himself trying to pretend like he's a soldier. Go home POG!
(1)
(0)
CPL Bobby McKellar
SPC Brian Moore....was this you? I'm betting you wrote this! Has all of the hallmarks of your "style"!
(1)
(0)
SPC Aedan McCluskey
SPC (Join to see) -
Using terms like "Boy" and "White sheets" as you do show you to be just another racial arsonist seeking to turn this into a race thing.
In other words, you're just another asshole and deserve to be igonored from here on out. Have a nice civilian life because you sure don't deserve to wear our Nation's uniform.
Using terms like "Boy" and "White sheets" as you do show you to be just another racial arsonist seeking to turn this into a race thing.
In other words, you're just another asshole and deserve to be igonored from here on out. Have a nice civilian life because you sure don't deserve to wear our Nation's uniform.
(1)
(0)
Pamela Black
this reminds me of a story my Dad told of when he was in Korea-somewhere near White Horse Mt--he was a Sgt in heavy artillery-4 batteries-each had 4 guns--they called for back up in a forward position, my Dad was one to go--they took 4 big guns, and just enough manpower and the LT--when they got to where they were supposed to set up, the Lt wanted them to set up in this big open field and Dad said absolutely not, we need to go up between those hills, undercover, the Lt started screaming at Dad I'm a Lt, I went to officers training and you'll do what you're told, to which Dad replied, Yes, I know you did, and you may someday make a good officer if you don't get us all killed first you little SOB, the Lt called back to the place they had been sent from, speaking to the Cpt that he wanted Dad court martialed, the Cpt said is he there put him on the phone, Dad told him what was going on, he said I'll be there shortly, when Cpt showed he had a Gen in tow--the Gen looked over the situation, asked my Dad if he could take over till he could send a different officer, to which Dad said yes--the Gen then said to Dad, If we were not in the middle of a heated battle, I would handle this differently, but I'll just thank you for not getting my men killed--and left--Dad said they were there 9 days and when he got back he never saw the LT again--
(1)
(0)
So years ago I got a chance to witness an… event lol. This happened back at a Squadron a LTJG walked into maintenance control and told the AZ1 that he was entering the gripes wrong in the system (I don’t remember the programs name) The AZ1 tries to explain to the LTJG that how he is doing it is how the system requires it and it is the only way for that program. The LTJG keeps interrupting the AZ1 and all around showing zero respect for someone that has been working on that system for at least 12 years. The LTJG had been in for all of I think 3 years. At one point the LTJG let lose these pearls of wisdom. “Well AZ1 I’m an Officer with a College Degree, if you had gone to school and gotten a Degree you would know what you were doing and not be a worthless enlisted that doesn’t know jack” At that point the Maintenance Master Chief stepped out of his office to have a word.
MMC: LTJG so you have a Degree? What’s it in?
LTJG: That’s not importin Master Chief.
MMC: No really what’s it in?
LTJG: Mumbles Bachelors in Art history.
MMC: hum, AZ1 what’s your Degree in,
AZ1: Working on my Masters in Electrical Engineering.
The master Chief looks being the LTJG to the two LT’s that have quietly walked up behind him and say
“You may want to correct this” and then walks back into his office.
I learned a few things from that. 1. Know your people and what they are doing with / in their lives. 2. Make your point and then walk away. 3. Don’t get in a pissing match you just get peed on. 4. Be humble when dealing with Junior people. 5. Learn from your people and remember your actions will teach them how to be.
MMC: LTJG so you have a Degree? What’s it in?
LTJG: That’s not importin Master Chief.
MMC: No really what’s it in?
LTJG: Mumbles Bachelors in Art history.
MMC: hum, AZ1 what’s your Degree in,
AZ1: Working on my Masters in Electrical Engineering.
The master Chief looks being the LTJG to the two LT’s that have quietly walked up behind him and say
“You may want to correct this” and then walks back into his office.
I learned a few things from that. 1. Know your people and what they are doing with / in their lives. 2. Make your point and then walk away. 3. Don’t get in a pissing match you just get peed on. 4. Be humble when dealing with Junior people. 5. Learn from your people and remember your actions will teach them how to be.
(181)
(0)
Sgt Jason Shaw
I mean no disrespect, I just want to help so please don't get upset with me. I know how confusing the naval rank structure can be, especially the officer ranks. You're right that LtJG is short for Lieutenant Junior Grade, a lot of sailors and Marines I served with didn't know that. But a LtJG in the Navy is an O-2 and equivilant to a 1st Lt in the Marines, the Army, and the Air Force. An Ensign is an O-1 and the naval equivalent of a Marine, Army, and Air Force 2nd Lt. Ensigns have the same capacity for foolish ineptitude, inexplicable self-importance, and shameless but frequent oral podiatry that 2nd Lt's possess so the only difference is the name. The vast majority of LtJG's learned to "know their role and shut their hole" as Ensigns, but there are always a few who refuse to be educated and need remedial training their whole career.SPC Rodger Johnson -
(3)
(0)
SN Lonnie Wilcox
SGT (Join to see) - ltjg LT junior, grade AZ would be aviation the 1 would be first class (E-6)
(0)
(0)
Hell yes you have to comply. The fall out is priceless though.
I once had a new 2LT throw me off his job site for talking to Soldiers without having asked his permission. News flash.... CSMs don't need permission to talk to Soldiers and I had already let the PSG know I was on site out of courtesy.
I simply popped to attention saluted about faced and left laughing my ass off once I got in the truck. My Driver and gunner were in shock, I told them to shut up and just watch and learn. Without ever tattling on the LT, word got to the BC what had happened and you can bet your backside that was the last time anyone tried that crap.
In 30 years of service that and three epic land nav incidents were the only bad run ins I had with officers.
I once had a new 2LT throw me off his job site for talking to Soldiers without having asked his permission. News flash.... CSMs don't need permission to talk to Soldiers and I had already let the PSG know I was on site out of courtesy.
I simply popped to attention saluted about faced and left laughing my ass off once I got in the truck. My Driver and gunner were in shock, I told them to shut up and just watch and learn. Without ever tattling on the LT, word got to the BC what had happened and you can bet your backside that was the last time anyone tried that crap.
In 30 years of service that and three epic land nav incidents were the only bad run ins I had with officers.
(164)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
The thing to remember, is that with little exception, E9s of any branch are generally always going to help rather than hurt you. I've been in 28 years, enlisting under Regan before the wall fell, and now I'm a 1LT in a large company command...I love my CSM. I couldn't appreciate his advise and guidance more.
(1)
(0)
CSM Richard StCyr
MAJ (Join to see) - You know sir, I sat and thought about the LTs I served with as PVT- SFC and this what I came up with; The three land nav incidents all occurred in the 80's before and during the Army of Excellence push under Reagan. Two of those LTs burned in and were relieved (not as result of the land nav incidents). One went on to be a COL. and is still a friend. Of the slew of others there are two GOs and they are still serving. Two I can't find anything on and don't know what happened to them, but they were good to work with. Three retired as LTCs and two as MAJ. The two Majors were SSGs before becoming LTs so I think they still did well. The LT who was a bone head when I was a CSM later ended up resigning sometime after I PCSd, was told the LT just didn't get along with anyone.
So when you look at the 30 year span I think the Army's putting out some pretty good young officers just when they assed up they did it in a grand manner..
So when you look at the 30 year span I think the Army's putting out some pretty good young officers just when they assed up they did it in a grand manner..
(0)
(0)
SPC Ann T.
Land Nav and Officers: Before I ever wore the shiny stuff, I was an E4 monitoring radios during a field exercise in Baumholder, Germany. I heard some of the most amazing things.... And the ones that always broke everyone in the room up always came from LTs. Why there are SO many like that is more than I can say, but there's the facts: More LTs say ridiculous things during land nav than any other rank.
(2)
(0)
Most E9s I've known would respect the rank of the O1, per their oath of enlistment and their experience. That said, I witnessed this once. The CMSgt told the 2Lt, "All I owe you is a 'Sir' and a salute. Anything else that I give you is a bonus." SNCOs can make or break a young officer's career in ways that the young officer cannot even imagine. And SNCOs (E9s in particular) can damage an officer's career in way that he/she cannot prove or even imagine. Young officers would be wise to show deference to age and experience. Even now, as a not-so-young O4, I approach SNCOs with respect.
(156)
(0)
SMSgt Patrick Vitullo
I witnessed many young officers get set up for failure for not respected SNCOs. They can either propel young officers to greater heights or get them fired.
(3)
(0)
SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates
I live by and have taught my children about 3 types of respect that should be given: 1) Respect the person as a human being, regardless of feelings, or opinions, the person is still deserving of the same basic human rights as every other human being; 2) Respect for the rank/title/position and acknowledge to yourself that the person holding that position was awarded it in some manner, that took effort in a positive direction; and finally, 3) Respect that the person has earned by nature of your relationship with them where you give such respect willingly. Not everyone deserves all three types of respect, but each person you meet deserves the first type. Each person appointed over you, who has more rank than you, and who holds any high position has earned #2 (even Adolph Hitler did something smart to earn his position and I respect that, regardless of how horrible a person he was of the lowest moral code). I have always conducted myself in this manner, taught my children to do the same, and encourage my coworkers, friends who struggle with this issue at their workplace, and now I bring it to you. It saves a lot of heartache, we can all keep our integrity and sanity intact, and nobody has to get a big beef up in their body parts unless they really are "that stupid."
(2)
(0)
SGM (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - Another one that sucks up to get ahead....sounds like a yes man!
(0)
(0)
SGM (Join to see)
SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates - thank you for your commitment to our Nation, just know that what you do and will continue to do with integrity and honesty will take you a long way. I understand and know that regardless of your MOS, your job is just as important as the combat arms Soldiers, your role is what kept Soldiers of all ranks to strive to walk the straight and narrow. While deployed to Afghanistan in 2013, my Battle Captain, which were a 1LT did a phenomenal job in supporting operations, needless to say, his Bronze Star was downgraded to an MSM, I knew the hard work and effort he put into his daily duties. I was the first to step up and reach out to the CSM and the GEN in charge of the Special Forces Command to relook their decision of their downgraded award because I felt that my LT deserved it and earned it. I was personally contacted by the CSM and he informed me that the ward will be approved. Keep doing what you do and you will have a great career....."Army Strong"!!
(0)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
SGM (Join to see) - Definitely not SGM, I set the example for my subordinates. After the LT does the correction pull him/her aside with your BN Commander and address it behind closed doors. If you address it in public it shows your subordinates it's ok to disrespect LTS
(1)
(0)
If I saw a LT call an E-9 to attention, I would grab my popcorn and get ready for a show, haha
(92)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
TSgt Frank Shirley - That's where people get it confused. Rank is to be obeyed, not respected. It is the person wearing the rank, and how they conduct themselves, that earns respect.
(3)
(0)
PFC Darren Ward
I'd just pull up a lawn chair I actually watched a e-9 just blow off a 2ND lt it was hilarious
(1)
(0)
No matter how high rank the NCO, he/she still, by all rights is required to. I as a SGM was about to receive a counseling statement from a CPT. I let him have his say first then it was my turn. I spent the next 20 minutes setting this young CPT straight. It was behind closed doors and not in front of the troops - which should never happen.
(68)
(0)
CW3 David Covey
As a CW2 I did something similar after being chewed on by my new 1LT Battalion Maintenance Officer. While standing in our bivouac site in Saudi Arabia just prior to crossing into Iraq. After chewing on me for a bit he stated he was going to write me a counseling statement but it would not effect my OER.
I was respectful to the rank as I explained what my mission was and at the end all I could do was laugh and asked if that was the case why was he wasting his and my time..
The reason for my ass chewing... The Division Commander was rumored to be coming through our area. He thought it was more important for me to clean than to continue fabricating parts for the divisions pacing equipment.
I still laugh when I think about it..
I was respectful to the rank as I explained what my mission was and at the end all I could do was laugh and asked if that was the case why was he wasting his and my time..
The reason for my ass chewing... The Division Commander was rumored to be coming through our area. He thought it was more important for me to clean than to continue fabricating parts for the divisions pacing equipment.
I still laugh when I think about it..
(4)
(0)
I always find discussions like this interesting, for so long as I have been in the Army.... I spent 7 years enlisted, and now 12 as an officer, and never have I seen this play out in real life. I have had the good fortune of serving with Soldiers of all ranks who were generally respectful to others and cognizant of their place in Army. Honestly, I think at the end of the day, polite, professional leaders on both sides of the isle will never find themselves in this situation. Officers are generally respected by NCOs for their rank, and NCOs are respected by Officers for their experience. Would the 2LT in this scenario be a pretentious little fool? Most definitely! Would the hypothetical SGM be acting in an unprofessional and arrogant manner too? Again I think the answer is yes. One thing is for sure though, if we treat each other with respect, and act like the true military professionals we are expected to be, we will never find ourselves in this situation.
(49)
(0)
Read This Next