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As leaders, we should automatically respect our subordinates at all times. There is a stark difference between leadership and dictatorship. As soon as the leaders in the military figure this out, they will notice a peak in the retention rate of their Soldiers.
I have communicated with over 300 Soldiers who are eligible to extend their enlistment contract within the past few months and was shocked to hear the responses from some of them. One Soldier mentioned, “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” I asked this same Soldier if he’d discuss with his leaders the disrespect he feels and he said that he had spoken with them about it. My final question to him was, “So what did they say?” He replied, “They said that I am a Soldier and if I can’t handle it, get out!”
As a leader myself, I apologized to this Soldier and informed him that some leaders are called leaders because of their position or title, not because of their leadership. I then annotated in the retention book that he was not going to extend his contract but instead, leave the military because of the disrespect from his leadership.
Must a Soldier be a Chaplain to get respected? Can a Soldier who informs his or her chain of command that the speaking of profanity is against their religion be provided the same respect that a chaplain receives? Should fellow Soldiers respect these Soldiers? To me, the answer is quite simple. We should.
I am one of these Soldiers. I am a non-paid minister at a local church. The Soldiers who are aware of this duty respect the fact I am a Soldier and a minister. I've expressed to others that I would like for them to be themselves while in my presence, as I would perceive unrealism if they would change their talk, speech, or attitude just because I was standing around in the vicinity. Some disagreed but others said okay and would use profanity as if I’m not around. It didn’t then and doesn’t bother me a bit. However, there might be Soldiers that are affected by vulgar and demeaning language and I believe this should be respected.
If smoking a cigarette around a non-smoker is a sign of disrespect, I believe using profanity around a non-profanity speaker falls within the same guidelines if the Soldier speaks up. Leaders must understand that profanity can be damning to a lot of people. The “F” word has been known to cause havoc, begin fights, and unfortunately result in someone being killed. To tell a Soldier to deal with the disrespect because you're a Soldier is unacceptable.
This is not a new Army. Respect began when the Army began.
I have communicated with over 300 Soldiers who are eligible to extend their enlistment contract within the past few months and was shocked to hear the responses from some of them. One Soldier mentioned, “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” I asked this same Soldier if he’d discuss with his leaders the disrespect he feels and he said that he had spoken with them about it. My final question to him was, “So what did they say?” He replied, “They said that I am a Soldier and if I can’t handle it, get out!”
As a leader myself, I apologized to this Soldier and informed him that some leaders are called leaders because of their position or title, not because of their leadership. I then annotated in the retention book that he was not going to extend his contract but instead, leave the military because of the disrespect from his leadership.
Must a Soldier be a Chaplain to get respected? Can a Soldier who informs his or her chain of command that the speaking of profanity is against their religion be provided the same respect that a chaplain receives? Should fellow Soldiers respect these Soldiers? To me, the answer is quite simple. We should.
I am one of these Soldiers. I am a non-paid minister at a local church. The Soldiers who are aware of this duty respect the fact I am a Soldier and a minister. I've expressed to others that I would like for them to be themselves while in my presence, as I would perceive unrealism if they would change their talk, speech, or attitude just because I was standing around in the vicinity. Some disagreed but others said okay and would use profanity as if I’m not around. It didn’t then and doesn’t bother me a bit. However, there might be Soldiers that are affected by vulgar and demeaning language and I believe this should be respected.
If smoking a cigarette around a non-smoker is a sign of disrespect, I believe using profanity around a non-profanity speaker falls within the same guidelines if the Soldier speaks up. Leaders must understand that profanity can be damning to a lot of people. The “F” word has been known to cause havoc, begin fights, and unfortunately result in someone being killed. To tell a Soldier to deal with the disrespect because you're a Soldier is unacceptable.
This is not a new Army. Respect began when the Army began.
Religion
Respect
Values
Command Post
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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All I know, is that if someone can't handle some profanity in the military, then Lord help them when it comes time to fix bayonets. Do I curse, No (nowadays). Will I quit a job because I get cursed out? No. Do I know how to wear my big boy pants and exercise my right to be heard and solve such miniscule problems as profanity, albeit toxic leadership involved? Yes. Aren't we also problem solvers in the military? Can a simple message be passed along to the C of C or the Chaplain to determine if this leader needs a psych eval for abusing his authority? Is it natural to curse your hard working troops up and down, or is this poor soldier in need of a serious reality check? I find it INCREDIBLY unprofessional to curse. I'm sharpening my admin bayonet (Skilcraft) and getting busy counseling before I'd let some troop have power over me by getting me pissed to the point of profanity.
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CPT (Join to see)
Language for proper impact and in moderation.
Profanity, when properly placed, is an excellent way of communicating or amplifying a point. That being said, in the hands of the ignorant, it can actually weaken a point. It's all about understand who is on the receiving end of the profanity. An Soldier should be able to understand his audience and what is proper communication to that audience. I would never tell my mom to "fuck off". That is something I would probably say jokingly to friends of mine whom I know I can joke with like that. I have friends that are Christian and whom I know are sensitive about profanity. I make it a point to change my language for them. I do it out of respect. The elephant in the room is what is right and acceptable in the professional setting. To me, it starts with the Soldier's leadership. If my BC says that are professionals, just like a bank or law firm and our workplace will be free from profanity, then that is what it is. Again, language for proper impact and in moderation. My question is where do you think profanity fits in the "Profession of Arms".
Profanity, when properly placed, is an excellent way of communicating or amplifying a point. That being said, in the hands of the ignorant, it can actually weaken a point. It's all about understand who is on the receiving end of the profanity. An Soldier should be able to understand his audience and what is proper communication to that audience. I would never tell my mom to "fuck off". That is something I would probably say jokingly to friends of mine whom I know I can joke with like that. I have friends that are Christian and whom I know are sensitive about profanity. I make it a point to change my language for them. I do it out of respect. The elephant in the room is what is right and acceptable in the professional setting. To me, it starts with the Soldier's leadership. If my BC says that are professionals, just like a bank or law firm and our workplace will be free from profanity, then that is what it is. Again, language for proper impact and in moderation. My question is where do you think profanity fits in the "Profession of Arms".
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MSgt Jim Wolverton
I can safely say that in my 24 years I was never cursed at, outside of BMT. Did I swear, yes, but not at my guys, more at the situation. Honestly, if you have to curse at your guys because they are either stupid or ignorant, those people probably don't belong in the military. At least they don't below in the Air Force, I'm not sure how you Army guys roll ;)
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SFC Brian Ewing
What I tell people who use profanity is this:
Imagine you are at a table eating with your Grandparents, Mother and Father or the Pastor of your Church, would you want your kids yelling across the table saying "Hey dad, can you please pass the F*CKING Potatoes??
If not, then you shouldn't curse, besides there is always a better way and a better word to use when addressing someone.
Cursing doesn't make you look hard, tough and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent.
Imagine you are at a table eating with your Grandparents, Mother and Father or the Pastor of your Church, would you want your kids yelling across the table saying "Hey dad, can you please pass the F*CKING Potatoes??
If not, then you shouldn't curse, besides there is always a better way and a better word to use when addressing someone.
Cursing doesn't make you look hard, tough and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent.
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LTC Lee Bouchard
To SFC Mark Merino: I agree. Using foul language has it's place and there are places where it needs to be checked at the door. The user needs to be very aware of his surroundings and what effect or purpose does it serve. There are heated and confusing times when no other words fit the situation than a series of foul words expressly spoken at about 300 disable's and at 400 words per minute. You know, "Gosh and Gee Wizz"
just doesn't cut it anymore. Not in todays world anyway. But saying to the clerk at the check out stand who gave back the wrong change, "Lady, you just Foxtrot Uniformed"
gets close. LOL!!!!
just doesn't cut it anymore. Not in todays world anyway. But saying to the clerk at the check out stand who gave back the wrong change, "Lady, you just Foxtrot Uniformed"
gets close. LOL!!!!
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BLUF: Being offended is a personal choice anyone can make. If I'm your First Sergeant and I'm on your ass because you did something you knew better, made that dumbass decision or what ever and you choose to be offended rather than listen to what I'm telling you. You've missed the intent and the reason behind me chewing your ass! Get over it, move out smartly, don't make the same mistake again....and we'll never have this conversation again. GUESS WHAT: 2 minutes after you're outta my sight...I've moved on to the next issue! I don't hold it against you, I won't belittle you in front of others about it later on, it's over. NOW if you do that same stupid crap again...I'M the one Offended, because your dumbass chose not to listen to me and didn't hear a word of advise I gave you the 1st time. Now I know this isn't politcally correct, but guess what, being politically correct and sensitive to your feelings may not be what you need to hear. My advise may save your life one day or the life of another Soldier. Get over it! If you feel this had anything to do with your religion. Go and pray it don't happen again because I'll be praying for you that it better NOT.
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1SG (Join to see)
SGT Curtis Earl If you're getting your ass chewed with f bombs etc for dropping a tool or mishandling something, then you have a toxic leader on your hand. Sorry but I had laugh at your comparision of imagining talking to a wife or POTUS in the context of your dropping a wrench or mishandling somethig, really took me out to left field. However fully agree with the next sentence! Stupidity and ignorance is not offensive, though it is a fact of life. As for the being offended being a personal choice...guess we'll agree to disagree! If you or any of your Soldiers are/were being mistreated in any fashion related to what you've said above, it should have been reported up the chain of command know it. That should not be tolerated. I Hope it's not happening.
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1SG (Join to see)
MCPO Hans Brakob No issue or "offense" with the down vote, however, am interested in your thoughts since you apparently strongly disagree!
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MSG (Join to see)
we as senior leaders are training the next generation to save our asses if these punk ass bitches cant take our crap then they sure as hell wont make it on the battlefield and well white flag ???
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SFC Brian Ewing
What I tell people who use profanity is this:
Imagine you are at a table eating with your Grandparents, Mother and Father or the Pastor of your Church, would you want your kids yelling across the table saying "Hey dad, can you please pass the F*CKING Potatoes??
If not, then you shouldn't curse, besides there is always a better way and a better word to use when addressing someone.
Cursing doesn't make you look hard, tough and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent.
Imagine you are at a table eating with your Grandparents, Mother and Father or the Pastor of your Church, would you want your kids yelling across the table saying "Hey dad, can you please pass the F*CKING Potatoes??
If not, then you shouldn't curse, besides there is always a better way and a better word to use when addressing someone.
Cursing doesn't make you look hard, tough and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent.
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I joined the Army in Oct 82. My first duty station was Ft Hood with the 1st Cav. I was an E-1 when I joined and a CPL 18 months latter (I was real good in the field!) and a squad leader. One afternoon in the motor pool, another platoon SGT (SFC) cornered one of my squad members and commenced to go nuts on him, for something I can't remember, but it was something I instructed him to do. I quickly intervened and the cussing shifted from my troop to the both of us. I told my guy to leave which inflamed the SFC, who up until then, I thought was a pretty good guy/leader. At that point I turned on the Squad Leader mantra and the discussion got lively. He became fully aware of the fact that I was not going to let anyone belittle or disrespect my troops. Then the unthinkable happened, he grabbed the front of my BDU blouse, I cold cocked him. Yep, my fledgling career was over! He stood back up and smiled, "You got balls, boy! I hope you continue to stand up for your Soldiers." Then he walked away. That was the first and only time I ever witnessed him go nuts on someone, and never received an explanation for it either. A month after the incident, he requested that I work for him as a Squad/team Leader on a mission we were assigned. I asked why and his response, "I want guys that give a shit about their team." that was all he would say.
I ABSOLUTELY do not advocate cold cocking a Senior NCO, or anyone for that matter, it was a different army with Vietnam veterans(him included) and we were not that touchy feely. But the key was taking up for and caring for your soldiers and giving respect. You may not agree with their lifestyle or what they do or do not believe, but by the short hairs, as a leader, you better protect and respect them, they joined the same as you.
I ABSOLUTELY do not advocate cold cocking a Senior NCO, or anyone for that matter, it was a different army with Vietnam veterans(him included) and we were not that touchy feely. But the key was taking up for and caring for your soldiers and giving respect. You may not agree with their lifestyle or what they do or do not believe, but by the short hairs, as a leader, you better protect and respect them, they joined the same as you.
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SGT Michael Glenn
My 1st art 15 was much like the way your situation went down, I was Unit armorer (a cpl) and had a spc as my assistant, back then it was a against policy for the Armorer or his asst to pull any guard duties for any reason. A discussion came up one day with the infantry plt's and how headquarters plt always got over, the 1sg had told an E-5 to pick his cq runner for the night and since he didnt like my asst and they had bad blood when he was not an E-5 he cornered my spc and was lecturing him on how he should be honored to be his runner, I approached both at that time to which the E-5 attempted to turn on me and lock me up, I told the spc to leave and not to worry about the runner position as it was against regulation and the E-5 had not the authority to snag him. getting in my face ( like drill) he began pushing me with his finger on my chest, which prompted me to respond with a knee to the groin , putting him where he belonged, where I messed up after that was another NCO who saw the tail end of the whole thing rushed in and I took a swing at him thinking he was gonna defend the E-5, I didnt contact thankfully cause he would have cleaned my clock but I got nailed for swinging at him just the same, nothing happened for kneeing the E-5 and the spc didnt have to pull runner duty.
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SFC William "Bill" Moore
That was all I thought about, getting an AR 15 then having to leave the Army. I've been pretty lucky in my career. I will let anyone walk all over me, but, when it comes to troops, family and friends, I have a very explosive temper. I had a very good LT nickname me BFFI (Biffy) Brute force and F@#king Ignorance for some of the things I would do.
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SGT Nia Chiaraluce
I wish the same respect was given to female soldier's that exude the same tenacity, the fact is senior males don't. They think we are snarky and emotional.
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My Sergeant Major when I was a cadet had 6 purple hearts from Vietnam and one day he had me following him as the unit photographer and he stopped to listen as the cadet (prior service) battalion commander screamed in profanity at the other senior cadets in formation. He waited a moment and then bellowed in all his magnificent authority "DROP CADET!" To which the shocked cadet commander quit his tirade and said "who me?" and the command was re-iterated even louder and he told the formation to go to parade rest. He then turned to me in fury and I locked up and he hissed at me "do you know why I did that?" (while the Cadet LTC continued to push ground) "NO Sergeant Major" was my quick reply. And this incredible man, normally of very few words and extremely careful of what he communicated to us, looked me in the eye and said, "you cannot call yourself a leader of MY soldiers if you cannot communicate to them without profanity." And to my wonder I realized that even after growing up in the military, my father and his friends never used F bombs and I never once had heard this true leader curse at us or in our hearing. Profound leadership lesson for me.
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COL (Join to see)
SSG Peter Ludlum I disagree. I have found this in my own experience that what comes out of your mouth represents your character, experience and motivation. I personally believe that words which encourage or curse possess power: written, spoken, or signed. What I learned that day is that we respected our CSM more than the Cdt Bn Cdr, because his words always invoked his respect for us as individuals. In essence this action stated (and he shook me by the collar a couple of times further on this) is if you cannot respect the people you lead, you do not deserve to lead them. Here is the definition of "to curse" from Free dictionary.com...to me none of these show or communicate respect.
1. To invoke evil or misfortune upon; damn.
2. To swear at.
3. To bring evil upon; afflict: was cursed with crippling arthritis.
4. Ecclesiastical To put under a ban or an anathema; excommunicate.
" The words themselves hold only the power we give them. But curse words tend to be powerful indeed, because to linguistically reduce something or someone to the level of biological functions (and their resultant products) is almost always an act of contempt. And contempt is toxic." Carolyn Arends
"I counsel many leaders who falsely believe that carefully directed anger and occasional swearing actually strengthens their leadership position. Nothing could be further from the truth. Number one – real leaders never get to the place where anger or swearing is necessary to maintain their leadership. And number two, as I mentioned in the CBS article, the minute you lose control, you’ve just telegraphed to your team that you’ve run out of real answers, and don’t have a clue what to do next." Phil Cooke
1. To invoke evil or misfortune upon; damn.
2. To swear at.
3. To bring evil upon; afflict: was cursed with crippling arthritis.
4. Ecclesiastical To put under a ban or an anathema; excommunicate.
" The words themselves hold only the power we give them. But curse words tend to be powerful indeed, because to linguistically reduce something or someone to the level of biological functions (and their resultant products) is almost always an act of contempt. And contempt is toxic." Carolyn Arends
"I counsel many leaders who falsely believe that carefully directed anger and occasional swearing actually strengthens their leadership position. Nothing could be further from the truth. Number one – real leaders never get to the place where anger or swearing is necessary to maintain their leadership. And number two, as I mentioned in the CBS article, the minute you lose control, you’ve just telegraphed to your team that you’ve run out of real answers, and don’t have a clue what to do next." Phil Cooke
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COL (Join to see)
PS I am not coming at this from a "better than thou" attitude, as I mentioned it has come through experience...I came back from Jump school cursing "like a sailor" and thinking it was cool and lost a friend because of my "potty mouth", so I cleaned it up and it was not instantaneous...I came to believe that cursing is lazy because it creates an excuse for not really communicating. I also realized once when I screamed"BS" in front of my platoon that I hurt some of the relationships I had built much like the quote from Phil Cooke above. A couple of good books that address this subject are "Emotional Intelligence," and "Language Shock." If nothing else if you are a heavy curser, just give not cursing a try and see how your relationships evolve. What have you got to lose?
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COL (Join to see)
PPS -so for the "rest of the story"---that former cadet battalion commander is well on his way to general officer and went on to make incredible sacrifices for his country in the last 26 years and stayed married for just as long to the love of his life despite at least 5 deployments, some with SOF. He is an amazing person and I am proud to be his fellow alumna. I stayed in touch with the CSM until he retired and for the next 10 years and when he was about 75 he "faded away" : my letters were returned and his phone was disconnected. He mentored me the entire time we were in touch and I am truly blessed to have been able to call him my friend.
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SFC Terry Wilcox
One of the other lessons to learn, is to never (under normal circumstances) ever repremand a subordinate in front of the troops. Always remove the person from the situation and then (as you've described) without profanity, make the corrections to the person's actions.
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Respect is earned; so is disrespect. Let the individual define the rank he/she holds, not the stripes. There is a time and place for directive leadership style, and when necessary, an ass-chewing if earned. Praise in public, punish in private.
BLUF: Troops at any rank will respect a NCO/Sr. NCO/Officer who communicates with them, not at them. Initial training notwithstanding...
BLUF: Troops at any rank will respect a NCO/Sr. NCO/Officer who communicates with them, not at them. Initial training notwithstanding...
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
Well said, I agree 1000 percent, that's the way I lived as a Soldier.. Awesome statement
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PO1 (Join to see)
Respect is a given from the start, both up and down the chain. However, respect CAN be diminished by the performance of the individual, whether personally or professionally. Rank should always be respected, though I have seen times where rank does not equate to ability.
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People I stand on my last comment; I see some of you are still in uniform. all I am saying is; start preparing yourselves for the outside world. start going to trade shows, hiring events and ect. to interact with civilians and take note of how people speak and so on. if you do this more often, cursing will soon leave you in some way shape or form. no one says you have to stop overnight, but start practicing how to speak. check in your city and state for toast master events, this has help me out in a big way. just passing on some good information from a veteran to veterans and or about to be a veteran soon. just something to think about.
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SPC James Mcneil
I am a firm believer in Toastmasters. I am a past club president, and I know that Toastmasters has helped my speaking skills immensely.
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SPC David Shaffer
The use of profanity can be warranted but I often find it's habbit in the military in most cases. I have also found it to be the fact that most civilians just don't have more intelligent words to use and if they do they would rather use slang or Answers that are quicker and less thought out . Well in the area I live in at least. I think it's very important to choose the words you use very carefully in the world since most people decide what kind of a person you are within the first conversation you have with them.
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SGT Michael Glenn
I have been out for 22 years, spoke German for 17 of those 22 and still slip when talking English , In German I dont cuss that much and resort back to German when really peeved.
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MSG (Join to see)
ssgt i love your touchy feely response but i work in a factory and of course the education level is not that high, so cuss words flow like sailors on the seas, if these civilians can endure then guess what theses little bitches that want to be war heros need to man up get over it its war and the touchy feely shit dont mean nothing when you are dead
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MSG (Join to see),
This is certainly a unique take on cursing, religion, and respect.
While I will not curse around those who make it known their objections to that type of language, two scenarios come to mind; 1. the soldier doesn't voice their preference, and 2. or the soldier does something so incredibly stupid I am forced to swear at them (gross incompetence, safety issues, etc). In the second case my regard for a soldiers' preference goes down the toilet because mission and soldier/equipment safety take priority over hurt feelings.
I also leave religion out of the work place. There is only mission accomplishment; feel free to use whatever higher power you need to get it done, just get it done. It's none of my business and should have no impact on the working environment.
This is a gem. “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” is a telling quote all by itself. I have yet to meet an NCO (other than a DS) who prefers to yell and curse over simply stating their guidance and giving direction. I am the same way. I would much rather not spend my days yelling and cursing. This one statement leads me to believe that the soldier in question might have problems accomplishing his assigned duties with any sort of proficiency, and the result is a butt chewing. Whether cursed at or not, I bet he would say the same thing. I have no doubt he is a grown man, and God bless for his choice to serve, but he is a grown man who must not be very good at his job.
The Army is predicated on respect. I start every encounter respecting each new person I meet. They either earn more respect or lose it based on action, proficiency, and effort. You can be a total rag-bag soldier, and you've got my respect as long as you keep trying to do right. But there's no way I'm going to compromise my integrity by "faking the funk" to avoid hurt feelings. One of the most telling attributes in our profession is the ability to brush off a butt-chewing, make the needed correction, and drive on. If a soldier cannot do so when given a simple assigned task, that soldier is sure to fail in combat.
This is certainly a unique take on cursing, religion, and respect.
While I will not curse around those who make it known their objections to that type of language, two scenarios come to mind; 1. the soldier doesn't voice their preference, and 2. or the soldier does something so incredibly stupid I am forced to swear at them (gross incompetence, safety issues, etc). In the second case my regard for a soldiers' preference goes down the toilet because mission and soldier/equipment safety take priority over hurt feelings.
I also leave religion out of the work place. There is only mission accomplishment; feel free to use whatever higher power you need to get it done, just get it done. It's none of my business and should have no impact on the working environment.
This is a gem. “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” is a telling quote all by itself. I have yet to meet an NCO (other than a DS) who prefers to yell and curse over simply stating their guidance and giving direction. I am the same way. I would much rather not spend my days yelling and cursing. This one statement leads me to believe that the soldier in question might have problems accomplishing his assigned duties with any sort of proficiency, and the result is a butt chewing. Whether cursed at or not, I bet he would say the same thing. I have no doubt he is a grown man, and God bless for his choice to serve, but he is a grown man who must not be very good at his job.
The Army is predicated on respect. I start every encounter respecting each new person I meet. They either earn more respect or lose it based on action, proficiency, and effort. You can be a total rag-bag soldier, and you've got my respect as long as you keep trying to do right. But there's no way I'm going to compromise my integrity by "faking the funk" to avoid hurt feelings. One of the most telling attributes in our profession is the ability to brush off a butt-chewing, make the needed correction, and drive on. If a soldier cannot do so when given a simple assigned task, that soldier is sure to fail in combat.
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CPO William E. Mahoney
because of my own beliefs I never use the Lord's name in vain, I afford everyone respect until they do something to lose my respect, and as the saying goes always respect the uniform or the office someone holds but you don't have to respect the individual.
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MSG John Wirts
I loved one of my training aids I wish I had kept it when it was superceded, The sergeant is complaining one of his solders is unable to complete a task. The commander asks him what the solder is doing wrong or failing to do. The sergeant replies I can't explain it. The commander then says if you cannot properly explain what is required, or properly correct what is wrong, then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Stop complaining and go think about something important unless you can solve your problem.
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MSG (Join to see)
SSG Christopher Taylor, no disagreement here. Not enough info was provided from the situation given at the beginning but I agree with you. You appear to have repsect for your Soldiers. ---BREAK--- MSG Sommer Brown, I was so elated to read your response as a Senior Leader. We have to set the example that our subordinates should follow. With all of the cutbacks, some of these Soldiers will find out the hard way that communication is the key to any relationship. ---BREAK--- MSG John Wirts, I like your scenario. Sometimes we have to admit that some leaders could be the problem.
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MSG John Wirts
This was a training Aid Scenario. The beginning the sergeant tells the solder to do an unspecified task. the solder is unable to complete the task to the sergeant's satisfaction. The sergeant goes to the platoon leader and requests article 15 proceedings against the solder. The platoon leader asks what the task was and what was his failure? The sergeant was unable to give a specific answer. The platoon leader's response was if you cannot completely describe the task, and tell the solder how he failed and how to correct it. He cannot succeed, your job is to train, direct, and correct.I do not see how you could have trained him, If he is not trained you can't direct him,nor can you correct what he doesn't know. Since you have not done these things and cannot give a specific Task, condition, and standard for guidance, you are the problem. until you can accomplish these tasks, go sit somewhere and think about this.
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I have heard this from many people, drill sergeants included: "Give your heart and soul to God because your ass belongs to me for the next 13 weeks (at least). After my 13 weeks your ass belongs to the Army."
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SGT (Join to see)
CPL Brown,
No atheists in foxholes. I know there was a whole discussion on it here, but I am a firm believer that no one just stumbles upon religion or Christ, Buddha, and what have you. It takes a significant emotional event.
I would say Boot or Basic takes that one.
No atheists in foxholes. I know there was a whole discussion on it here, but I am a firm believer that no one just stumbles upon religion or Christ, Buddha, and what have you. It takes a significant emotional event.
I would say Boot or Basic takes that one.
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SSG (Join to see)
Not sure how the last two comments relate to respect and the military. If we look at the Army values respect is defined as "treating others as you would want to be treated." This is something that a lot of people were taught form a very young age. If we put this into practice in the military you will find that things operate a lot smoother than they would if we didn't respect each other. Also, with the topic of respect you also have respect for the veterans that have passed and the ones that are still around. They have done something with their military experience to have earned the title of veteran. They should be afforded the respect that is due to them as there is less than 1% of the US population that actually serves their country.
As far as the CPL's comment the Drill Sergeants got that line from the movie Full Metal Jacket and have been using it for years. Still a good line to quote though. And the whole "No atheists in the foxhole" quote also came from a movie. I believe it was called the Fighting Seabees, but it's true to an extent.
As far as the CPL's comment the Drill Sergeants got that line from the movie Full Metal Jacket and have been using it for years. Still a good line to quote though. And the whole "No atheists in the foxhole" quote also came from a movie. I believe it was called the Fighting Seabees, but it's true to an extent.
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1SG (Join to see)
Or the lines came from something already been said time and again in the military and used in those movies!
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I can and do have all the respect in the world for any person's faith regardless of how they choose to worship. However, this has nothing to do with the use of profanity. Some may choose to try to use their faith as a means to state their dislike for profanity. I'm not buying it. Did I use profanity as a Platoon Sergeant and First Sergeant...Hell YES! Did I ever bring a Soldier in for counseling/mentoring and verbally abuse them by cussing them out....NO! Did I ever use profanity when addressing some damn serious issues, YES. Some of you may not beleive this, however, I have seen more positive response and reacation by Soldiers and NCOs when a point has been made with profanity. More often then not, the added profanity brought out the seriousness or the importance of the issues.....and the Soldiers GOT IT. They were not intimadated, threatened, and here is that word again....feel DISREPECTED! As a young Soldier and NCO, I never felt disrepected when profanity was used in my presense or directed at me. Some of the Best Leaders I've ever served with both Officers and NCOs used profanity......as an effective tool in their leadership toolbox. I also knew what is called 'toxic leaders' who verbally abused Soldiers with profanity. We all know the difference. If one chooses to not use profanity, that's great. If one chooses to use profanity, that's his/her choice as well! We all know how it's delievered when used and the impact its intended to make. Instead of making it about "your hurt feelings" make it about the point trying to be made. Once again the Army has taken the route of one rule fits all and often those who make the rules are the 1st ones to violate them. We've seen it a hundred times.
I learned early in my career, that if the Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant , Commander, or Command Sergeant Major was cussing, it wasn't to step on my toes or hurt my precious feelings, it was because it was important to them and they wanted us to know it needed to damn important to us too. As expressed in earlier responses, we all know the difference between profanity that's abusive and when it's effective as hell. Respond and deal with both as they should be! One may require you to seek out your First Sergeant, EO or IG....the other may require you to move the hell out smartly! Most remembered words I recall from my days (6 plus years) in the 11th ACR, "Find the Bastards and Pile on!" We knew what it meant and if anyone was offended, they were in the wrong outfit.
I learned early in my career, that if the Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant , Commander, or Command Sergeant Major was cussing, it wasn't to step on my toes or hurt my precious feelings, it was because it was important to them and they wanted us to know it needed to damn important to us too. As expressed in earlier responses, we all know the difference between profanity that's abusive and when it's effective as hell. Respond and deal with both as they should be! One may require you to seek out your First Sergeant, EO or IG....the other may require you to move the hell out smartly! Most remembered words I recall from my days (6 plus years) in the 11th ACR, "Find the Bastards and Pile on!" We knew what it meant and if anyone was offended, they were in the wrong outfit.
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG Sand and SFC Moriset, I think we're speaking nearly the same language now. MSG Sand, I agree with you that trust is earned. We appear to be misinterpreting trust to mean respect and these two are different animals. I respect others because I am human and so are they. They can lose the respect I have for them from their actions. They however have to earn my trust and in time can lose this as well. I respect the E-1 through the O-10. Why? Because they are human and secondly because they were the uniform. Treat people as they should be treated is the foundation of respecting them until "ACTIONS" determine otherwise.
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SFC(P) Tobias M.
maybe I miss typed. Trust is what I also meant. I also respect each and every person I deal with until given a reason not to. with that being said respect needed to be earned due to what my troops have been through. they have been lied to way to many times so didnt trust or respect me. they do now thank god
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Additionally, the Army in its infinite wisdon has strayed from Leadership Principles in an effort to be modern and politically correct. I still have FM 22-100 from 1983, and from it comes:
1. Know yourself and seek self-improvement
2. Be tactically and technically proficient
3. Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions
4. Set the example
5. Know your Soldiers and look out for their welfare
6. Keep your Soldiers informed
7. Ensure the task is understood, supervised, and accomplished
8. Develop a sense of responsibility among your Soldiers
9. Train your unit as a team
10. Make sound and timely decisions
11. Employ your unit in accordance with its capabilities
All the PC add-ons and modern touchy-feely guildelines don't change basic leadership, particularly "lead by example."
1. Know yourself and seek self-improvement
2. Be tactically and technically proficient
3. Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions
4. Set the example
5. Know your Soldiers and look out for their welfare
6. Keep your Soldiers informed
7. Ensure the task is understood, supervised, and accomplished
8. Develop a sense of responsibility among your Soldiers
9. Train your unit as a team
10. Make sound and timely decisions
11. Employ your unit in accordance with its capabilities
All the PC add-ons and modern touchy-feely guildelines don't change basic leadership, particularly "lead by example."
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SGM Mikel Dawson
Just a little add to the list above: Never ask your soldiers to do something you cannot, have not, or will not do yourself.
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