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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Nov 3, 2021
Maj Chief, Cyber Integration
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
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Edited >1 y ago
I went into the Army at 230 pounds. In School I played inside linebacker of a 4-4 defense and tight end. On the track team I ran the 1 mile, 2 mile (ran at state), threw shotput, discus and javelin. After AIT I was 215 pounds and always was in the top 10% on the weekly PT testing. I always maxed the old 500 point and later the 300 point AFRT.
All that being said I spent most of my army career being poked, prodded, weighted, and taped until I was sent down to Gorgas Hospital in Panama to be immersion-tested. After the 3rd time I was immersed the Chief Naval Medical Officer (Rear Admiral) stopped my COC from sending me via written letter to them and to be placed in my files.
It has never been purely about just your weight, but also about your AFPT, body tone, agility and performance ability/capacity. If your leadership calls you a fatty just because of a scale then they haven't read the pertinent regulations. They are more comprehensive than poundage. Weight is simply the first indicator.
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SSG Ralph Watkins
SSG Ralph Watkins
>1 y
I am old school. I've see some of the most fit & dedicated soldiers kicked out for not meeting the height/weight standard. The crazy thing is the Army's answer was for them to do more PT. Muscle weighs more than fat & the military hasn't figured that one out yet. One guy was very religious. While everybody went out & partied, he lifted weights. When we would go on alert, he could carry equipment himself that took 4 others to carry. He was good at his job & dedicated to the Army. No, he must be a horrible soldier, a disgrace because he does fit into our pretty little model. They kicked him out.
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MSgt Nancy Wilson
MSgt Nancy Wilson
>1 y
Muscle weighs more than fat. I knew plenty of men who failed the weight test, but they were treated like they were MORE FIT. They were not mistreated at all.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SFC Ralph E Kelley
>1 y
MSgt Nancy Wilson - I won't say I was mistreated but I will say I was annoyed many times by people that barely passed the PT test and couldn't pass the SQT written or didn't understand their hands-on job duties..
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TSgt Mike Biles
TSgt Mike Biles
>1 y
The last time I was the"proper" weight for my height, I was a Skinny High School Freshman. At my fittest, I would be considered 20 lbs Over (no spare tire-or 6-pack... just right.)
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SPC Margaret Higgins
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Maj (Join to see) Ma'am, I happen to have run around the P.T. (Physical Training) track; the fastest; in Basic Training.
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Maj Chief, Cyber Integration
Maj (Join to see)
>1 y
Same! I have never run as fast as I did in basic training again lol. Thank goodness the PT charts go down with age :)
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SPC Margaret Higgins
SPC Margaret Higgins
>1 y
Maj (Join to see) - I agree. Thank goodness. :-)
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MAJ Engineer Officer
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The problem with HT/WT standards is that they’re only good for those who are just endurance athletes (distance runners). They aren’t friendly to anyone who has any muscle mass, and more and more people are becoming hybrid athletes (lift heavy, run fast). It’s beyond time those standards get an overhaul.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
CPT Lawrence Cable
>1 y
I haven't been close to being within by "legal" weight since I started weight training in 1990. Fortunately, the tape test works out for me. Getting my fat, post Covid ass back into shape, but I will be below 20 percent body fat at 2020 (not quite there yet). My lean body mass is back to around 180, but even the over 40 (and I am a lot over 40) BMI number for my 5'9" is 186.
Knees no longer like the run fast.
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MAJ Engineer Officer
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
CPT Lawrence Cable - based on the tape test, I stay around 18-20%, but I’d like to get a more accurate test. The weight the Army says I should be is 195 at 5’11, which is damn near impossible unless I just stop lifting and start only doing cardio. And that’s not happening.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
CPT Lawrence Cable
>1 y
MAJ (Join to see) - I ran about 18% by the Tape Test at my highest service weight, about 205. I was over 40 and still scoring 270+ on the 18 year old scale. Never was real fast, the run kept me from Maxing my age group.
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MSgt Nancy Wilson
MSgt Nancy Wilson
>1 y
Could not agree more.
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Service branches review body composition assessment methods
SFC William Linnell
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I have seen the curse of stupidity with the H/W standards. Personally having buddies then Soldiers who were 5-15 lbs over weight but could still max the APFT and wouldn't make promotion because of it. I have also seen (94ish) the BF % for females by big Army change to giving them 10% more BF%. I being in combat arms, tanker armor units, I never had to track any female records of H/W or BF%.

I too have been subject to the H/W and BF%. At 67" for my age group at the time max weight for me was 167lbs and 18% BF. I was 180lbs and 10% BF. Going to PLDC was the worse. I got the weight and taped 4 different times before I finally was signed in. Also good to have connections with Division CSM at the time too. :) No, I never maxed the PT test. Run time was around 14:30 -15:00.

In around 97' big Army changed the scale of the APFT on males to where those between 27-32 ish ended up having to do more reps and run time that the 21-26 age group. The theory was that the 27-32 were more conditioned then the younger age bracket. WHAT?? Not sure who they were basing that theory on but being in combat arms; tanks, infantry, arty, our body's are beaten up, hammered and FUBARed.

Since retired, I kinda follow the happening of my beloved Army. This new APFT that's been developed that is/was suppose to be no gender all points the same, I saw a huge problem with that. A factor that they always seem to forget and try to make the events the same across the board. After many tests in units they now have a scale, one for male and one for females.

Going back to BF % and H/W, I have no educated solution. I came in at the tail of the water tank, to taping. Females carry weight BF way different to males. Known fact. But to add more carrying BF% increase is not the answer. Also having mandatory PT in the Am and PM wouldn't solve it. As most who work in the motorpool all day in blazing heat, the last thing on Soldiers minds is OH I have to go run some more. No they want to hang their hats, take off the boots and chill.

I wish all you still serving all the best with the ever changing command climate going on. Still the best job I ever had. Also remember....TANKERS RULE. :)
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SSgt Owner/Operator
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I am glad to see BMI being tossed on its ear - hopefully. It is about time to make fitness personal instead of "one size fits all"!
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As an elder veteran, it's great to have the RWB Red White and Blue Eagle Ethos and Yoga programs to stay in shape.
SGT Jim Ramge, MBA
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The Army’s system is definitely broke! During the 80s, my father, was stationed in Germany. Stationed with him in his unit was a young NCO body builder whom had won Mr. Europe! Tired of being taped, the military lost a good NCO.
During my time in the Army, we lost some good ones as well. Certain gene pools are very discriminatorily held accountable for taping’s at every PT test. I say this because one is born with a certain body composition and they cannot change it, and the system does not care, nor look twice to re-evaluate!
Facts: bone density, muscle mass in the wrong areas, breasts and buttocks sizes are things you cannot reduce or change.
That said, if said soldier is carrying excess in any of those areas due to genetics or are predisposed to having prebuilt muscle and bone density, they are screwed!
Likewise, the PT test and it’s evaluation. Things it measures for certain duty MOS’s and what it should measure for others is something that should be reviewed. Does a doctor, admin, cook, intel, need to run a mile in 12 mins flat? Wouldn’t you prefer to have stronger mechanics breaking track? Or, an all around athletic Infantry, Ranger, Green Beret wo/men? Just some open ended thoughts. I am not saying that none need to be in decent shape, don’t get me wrong - but lean, mean fighting machines for certain MOS’s, some never see the light of combat, let’s be honest… Has a Lawyer ever been “in”? Just food for thought…
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SPC William Weedman
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When I was Active Duty in Korea, we had monthly PT tests & weigh ins. Two sergeants who were weightlifters always held the doors for our company to go into weigh in. They both had less than 5% body fat but their muscle bulk always flagged them as overweight. I was a skinny kid my entire Active Duty time, but had friends who were not overweight but were routinely taped as “over standard”
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PO2 Robert Kelly
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I was a proud member of the fat boys my entire stint in the Navy. I was also one of the most fit corpsmen in every unit I served in. Could never be a 4.0 sailor because of it but I did get to work out for two hours every day for lunch, still miss that. If you were ever severely wounded I was pretty sure you’d want coming for you instead of the 100 lb, two pack a day smoker who looked good in uniform. I could have gone into the tank and gotten out of the program but thought it undignified and wasn’t willing to give up the workout time.
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MSgt Nancy Wilson
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Perhaps, it is a lost art to say that one would prefer to remain home with the children. Now, we need a fitness test to gauge the fitness of a woman based on how many children she has had? You have to be pretty darned fit to be able to keep up with all those children! Where are we going with this?
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MSgt Nancy Wilson
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My recruiter told me to eat a big meal before I went in to Basic, because I only weighed 102lbs, standing at 5'8".
However, slim and trim does not equal Strong and Energetic. Huge difference.
I have always been weaker than, and rely upon, others to help me to get through. The thing is that -- there are MANY factors that go into "pulling your weight" and I always did. The weight standards do not -- can not -- look at the whole person.
And BTW, I do believe the weight standards were put into place in the first place because of uniform size -- back then -- they were mass producing standard clothing sizes. I could be wrong about this -- but it is how I understand the weight standard came into being.
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
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Maj (Join to see) Thank you for the interesting information Major.
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