Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
My active duty was July 1970 through March 1972 followed by active reserve until August 1985 when I was caught in Reagan 's RIF (I was in Command and General Staff school at the time instead of a TOE unit), so I experienced both the draft Army and the volunteer Army. I much prefer the volunteer Army. Having said that, I also witnessed draftees in my unit who bitched continually but did their duty.
Draft dodgers and draft resisters are two different animals. I did not think much of Mohammed Ali one way or the other when he was just a boxer, but he gained my admiration when he refused to serve and went to jail rather than run to Canada. He was a resister. Those who ran to Canada were dodgers for whom I had no sympathy.
After all of these decades, I would like to think that I harbor no bad feelings toward the dodgers, but a recent event makes me unsure. Since my retirement from my civilian career, I have been working in my wife's shop. a few weeks ago, a lady came into the shop. In the course of our talking, she relayed with great pride that she had been a war protester in the late 60's and early 70's. Although I did not respond, I reflected back on how I and others were treated during that time and felt real resentment toward her.
Draft dodgers and draft resisters are two different animals. I did not think much of Mohammed Ali one way or the other when he was just a boxer, but he gained my admiration when he refused to serve and went to jail rather than run to Canada. He was a resister. Those who ran to Canada were dodgers for whom I had no sympathy.
After all of these decades, I would like to think that I harbor no bad feelings toward the dodgers, but a recent event makes me unsure. Since my retirement from my civilian career, I have been working in my wife's shop. a few weeks ago, a lady came into the shop. In the course of our talking, she relayed with great pride that she had been a war protester in the late 60's and early 70's. Although I did not respond, I reflected back on how I and others were treated during that time and felt real resentment toward her.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughtful, and thought provoking comments and experience. I too respect Ali's principled approach. But for the record, though he was convicted, he had the money to keep appealing the decision until his conviction was overturned. He never actually did jail time.
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When I was drafted in 1967 it was mostly accepted as a person's duty in Okla. Was not crazy about it but tough.
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The Draft was the law of the land, and obeying Draft was not hard for those of us who loved [loves] this Nation. We served, fought beside and died with volunteers, and we never had anyone question our induction route and love for this country. So your beliefs that draftees were not "Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force" are based on ignorance and demeans a whole generation of great American patriots. We served with unity, honor, courage and confidence that our homeland would remain free because of our service. The draft evaders and/or those who supported them have the same rights I served to insure for you and those who demean our service. I normally don't take the time to respond to discussions like this, but today I am saluting my fellow Vietnam Veteran, Senator John McClain, and was visiting RP to see how the rest of this Nation's veterans are doing this. President Trump is assaulting the greatest Nation on earth, but greater is He that's in US than he that's in the world. He is seeking to divide and conquer US for the seek of Russia. Are we to be the United States of Russia in America? I was awarded the Purple Heart Medal for being wounded-in-action in the Vietnam War, and over 58000 of my peers were killed-in-action in that war standing against the spread of dictatorships. Yes, the politics of that day got US to where we are today. We won the ground war in Vietnam but lost the political war in Washington DC. Senator John McClain spent his whole life fighting for this Nation. In my eyes, he was the greatest American patriot of our times, and I am just appreciating him right now.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. No disrespect intended to those who were drafted. My point was that I hold no disrespect for those who were forced to serve against their will, or to those who used legal deferments or medical exemptions, or even those who fled forced Servitude. Thank you for your service. I truly wish you hadn't gone all political in the end though it detracted from your great message. Respectful Regards.
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No ill thoughts to those who dodged the draft, except those like Ted Nugent who acted so pro-war during the Bush Presidency.
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You are fortunate today's wars have been of low intensity I know from my own experiences having fought in the last high intensity war (Vietnam) without the draft there wouldn't have been enough replacements. We deployed as a full strength TO&E company of 178 men which included the weapons platoon. After our first battle in which we took 55 WIAs and 2 KIAs we never got up to full strength again. The tree line platoons were less then 100 men one time we lost a full squad in my platoon so we stayed a two squad platoon for three weeks. Yes there a lot of volunteers back then but not enough to meet the needed replacement number draftees made up a third of them. I had volunteered RA for 4 years myself and I saw that there were difficulties meeting quotas in this all volunteer Army and thus lowered standards to meet the quotas. It wasn't just differment you omitted the bone spurs to boot !
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SPC John Tacetta
Indeed, aside from Fallujah, many of the post Vietnam engagements would have been considered skirmishes during Vietnam.
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Didn't hear many complaints about Bill Clinton who got out his contract with the military and didn't serve. I consider his actions worst than Trump's.
I didn't respond to my draft notice in 1966 because when it came, I was a 1LT in Korea.
I didn't respond to my draft notice in 1966 because when it came, I was a 1LT in Korea.
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SGT Mike Moschkin
I guess you weren't around people that voiced their disdain for Clinton being a draft dodger also. I know I had issue with it and when he came to the Vietnam Memorial the Vietnam Vets turned their backs to him. I didn't out of respect for the position of commander and chief. The other guy who didn't turn his back did it for the same reason as I did.
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In regards to the POTUS, how he may or may not of avoided service is now water well passed under the bridge. Previously many draft dodgers were given amnesty and how they bear with it is between them selves and any higher power they observe. The same feeling I just expressed applies for Mr. TRUMP. What happened in the past may have some bearing in how he responds today. But I am in no position to judge. Not having been of draft age then. And having served in the Army when Mr. William J. Clinton, another draft avoider served as POTUS.
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73 Years old, Served 3 years US Army. "The War" really started after JFK's murder. After LBJ's coup, he escalated it. WHY? Brown & Root became a colossal corporation, and made the insiders a lot of money, a lot.
Pres. Eisenhower had warned about the MI Complex, and the grave danger it will, and does. represented.
Johnson has JFK murdered, in response we Americans see the attempt to dissolve the 2nd Amendment. And the effort to Socialize this country.
Ezra T Benson warned that we will come very close loosing the Constitution. That if it is preserved it will be with the loss of our own blood.
The one great HOPE I have is that the leaders of our Armed Forces, who have vowed and sworn to
defend, preserve, protect the Constitution of the these United States will do so.
Robert DeBuck
Pres. Eisenhower had warned about the MI Complex, and the grave danger it will, and does. represented.
Johnson has JFK murdered, in response we Americans see the attempt to dissolve the 2nd Amendment. And the effort to Socialize this country.
Ezra T Benson warned that we will come very close loosing the Constitution. That if it is preserved it will be with the loss of our own blood.
The one great HOPE I have is that the leaders of our Armed Forces, who have vowed and sworn to
defend, preserve, protect the Constitution of the these United States will do so.
Robert DeBuck
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No, the right to vote or hold public office should be restricted to veterans. If you are unwilling to put your life in jeopardy to defend this nation, why should you have any say in how its run?
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your comment. I recall Heinlein using that measure for voters in Starship Troopers. But he also said this.
"When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived."
One might ask a few questions.
First; might restricting the vote to such a narrow band of the militarily indoctrinated lead to an equally narrow field of concerns and issues?
Second; of it's ones aim by implementing such a policy to encourage military service, by requiring such to vote, aren't we really seeking a militaristic society, ruled by the military? A monetarily dependent entity, known to be grossly inefficient, and wasteful?
Lastly; doesn't such a requirement, by definition exclude the disabled, and even the mildly handicapped from having ANY say in our direction or governance?
Just some thoughts, and questions to apply to your answer.
"When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived."
One might ask a few questions.
First; might restricting the vote to such a narrow band of the militarily indoctrinated lead to an equally narrow field of concerns and issues?
Second; of it's ones aim by implementing such a policy to encourage military service, by requiring such to vote, aren't we really seeking a militaristic society, ruled by the military? A monetarily dependent entity, known to be grossly inefficient, and wasteful?
Lastly; doesn't such a requirement, by definition exclude the disabled, and even the mildly handicapped from having ANY say in our direction or governance?
Just some thoughts, and questions to apply to your answer.
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The draft dodgers who used their wealth and connections to avoid the draft are worse than the individuals who fled to Canada. Especially the draft dodgers who now cloak themselves in the flag and act like patriots....
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