Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
251K
6.15K
2.36K
646
646
0
I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
This was a fairly long post. So, I will offer a fairly short answer.
No. We got the better deal.
No. We got the better deal.
(1)
(0)
It isn’t the actual draft that is the issue. The rich could go to college, they could get into a reserve unit.etc etc. Normal people wound up moving their draft forward because they couldn’t get a decent job until they had served. None of it effected me, I enlisted stead at 17, without even completing High School. I had no interest in life outside the Army. It was/is class warfare
(1)
(0)
SSgt Robert Van Buhler III
That is how I felt; my life after high school was on hold. I informed the draft board of address changes when I moved, but I asked for no deferments. I was not called for a draft physical until I was nearly 22. I didn't spin my wheels, though. I spent two years getting a technical education and another couple getting a start on an electronics career, knowing I would probably be drafted. I formed no strong romantic attachments because of that sword over my head. My draft board exercised unrequested neighborhood discrimination, I believe, based on "zipcode." On the day I went to Fort Wayne to leave for Lackland AFB, every male I grew up with in a six or eight block radius was there waiting for induction into the Army. Every one of them was 19-22 YO. You could say the draft favored many over others, including me, but I didn't spin my wheels waiting for it or didn't come from a wealthy family. Today, years later, I recognize how the draft can be abused and make some classes or races of people available to be used for cannon fodder. But my conclusion is your life is what you make of it, and if you waste your life spinning your wheels, it's on you. Hats off your jumping right in. We came out with some rewards from the VA for our service that compensated a bit.
(1)
(0)
If you dodged the draft, you're a douche bag! There, I said it. As other have pointed out there were many many many ways to legally avoid being drafted. I know numer people who used dererments to stay out of the military, but they played by the rules.
(1)
(0)
PO2 Robert Cuminale
It's the motivation to play by those rules that is in question. Did they honestly go to college to get an education or to earn the deferment?
(2)
(0)
PO2 Robert Cuminale
It matters in a moral sense although the person himself would have to acknowledge it. I doubt that most of the people who used the rules to their benefit without honest intentions probably see all life that way. They use rules to gain a benefit and to hell with others.
(0)
(0)
Why would you ask that question? How long ago was that. They did what they did and they have had to live with that. We all did what we felt was right for us and we honorably volunteered and did our time. To me, it's not our place to judge.
(1)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Richard Brue,
Respectfully, I asked this question because there WERE/ARE a lot of people judging, and doing so for political purposes, and without regard to the nature of the draft itself. Which I, and many others apparently, believe there is room for discussion.
Regards
Respectfully, I asked this question because there WERE/ARE a lot of people judging, and doing so for political purposes, and without regard to the nature of the draft itself. Which I, and many others apparently, believe there is room for discussion.
Regards
(2)
(0)
i'm not . to each one's own moral decision, since for some the war was political .
(1)
(0)
Can't agree , how can you call him Commander in Chief if he used some fake ass heel spurs plus 3 deferments. I'll be 75 tomorrow , joined at 18 ; trump same age led some bullshit life , scamming and scamming . 58,000 + names didn't die in vane, if your country calls you go , or else we just give up too the very thing that our Forefathers , Fathers , Brothers, Sisters , Mothers ,fought an died for . My dad stormed
Omaha Beach, captured spent the next 345 days in Stalga 4 b Mulberg Germany. 54 men im my Company were KIA in Vietnam. Aco/2nd/502.101st Abn 1966. We went trump ran.
58,000 were not loser's as trump implied, POWs were not loser's as he spoke of John McCain.
While we were defending he was grabbing pussie.
So , the Veterans that are willing to follow trump I personally can't understand their thought process , but wouldn't deny that they served ,not servitude, nor slavery , but love of country.
Mutual Respect
Omaha Beach, captured spent the next 345 days in Stalga 4 b Mulberg Germany. 54 men im my Company were KIA in Vietnam. Aco/2nd/502.101st Abn 1966. We went trump ran.
58,000 were not loser's as trump implied, POWs were not loser's as he spoke of John McCain.
While we were defending he was grabbing pussie.
So , the Veterans that are willing to follow trump I personally can't understand their thought process , but wouldn't deny that they served ,not servitude, nor slavery , but love of country.
Mutual Respect
(1)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, history, and experiences. Respectfully, though, this question wasn't really about President Trump, it was about the nature of compulsory service. Regards.
(1)
(0)
SSG Edward Tilton
Draft boards were local. It always seemed to me there were a lot of 26 year olds who finished college and got drafted. I was a 21year old E6 and I learned to use them
(1)
(0)
SSgt Robert Van Buhler III
Bill Clinton falls into the same category as Trump on deferments. Outrage can be selective. Clinton was a far better President than Jimmy Carter, a Naval Officer, or LBJ Naval officer reserve, who got us so deep in Vietnam, it took a lot of American blood to get out. And Bill Clinton was doing as much pecker poking around as Trump or more.
(1)
(0)
Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis
SSgt Robert Van Buhler III - In the case of pecker poking, Clinton did it while he was IN office. Trump never did, while in office (exceptions for Melania, of course). I personally think that's a huge distinctions. Also, Trump did the less savory stuff while he was a Democrat. Respects to SSG Seidel; this post is not about politics.
(1)
(0)
oddle enough reading you views andnotice you mentioned the civil war the first time i guess that drafted people and it was the yankies doing it.and you could buy tour way out.
(1)
(0)
SSG Edward Tilton
The Confederacy had a draft too and it cost $1500 to buy your way out. In some places slave owners were not drafted.
(1)
(0)
I agree with your arguments regarding the draft and deferments. I used my college deferment for 4 years and after graduation joined up as an officer. Served for 20 years. I believe that what many are not happy about regarding Trump is that he found a dishonest doctor to say he had bone spurs and therefore could not serve. To much like the Civil war when rich people paid others to serve in their place.
(1)
(0)
PO3 Edward Riddle
What if you are wrong about the bone spurs and he really had them? What excuse did Stimbling Joe Biden use?
(0)
(0)
Read This Next


Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
