Posted on Jan 26, 2015
When, Not If, Will We See Open Transgender Military Service?
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On November 23, 2014, the Palm Center released a statement entitled "Military Services Have Failed To Comply With New Defense Department Rules On Transgender Personnel."
http://www.palmcenter.org/files/services%20out%20of%20compliance%20memo.pdf
This followed a report from last March where former Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders led a group that concluded there were no sound medical reasons why transgender people couldn't serve in the military services. It also followed an August report outlining a blueprint for how transgender people can be integrated into the military services - integrated much in the same way as 18 of our allies have already accomplished within their military services.
Military Times covered release of this latest report by the Palm Center. "A change to a Pentagon personnel policy three months ago loosens the rules barring transgender troops from serving in the U.S. military," stated the Army and Navy Times in their article entitled Report: Loophole could allow transgender troops to serve under new DoD policy, "giving the individual services leeway to retain these personnel." The article further stated, "The update -- to Defense Department Instruction 1332.18, Disability Evaluation System -- provides a loophole for the services to let transgender troops serve instead of requiring administrative separation, the Palm Center says."
The same socially conservative religious organizations that argued against repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) such as the Center for Military Readiness, the Center for Security Policy, and the Family Research Council, are using almost identical arguments. In the end, those arguments didn't work and DADT was repealed.
DADT was a federal law passed in 1993 that barred lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) service members from serving openly in the military services, and the law needed repeal before LGB service members could serve openly in recent years. All that bars transgender people from serving openly now is the DoD and individual service regulations. And, it appears that the overarching DoD regulation was weakened last August so that the four DoD military services could change their rules now to allow open transgender service.
The military didn't implode when LGB service members could serve openly in the American military services; the military won't implode if – or when - transgender service members can serve openly in the American military services. Honestly, does anybody currently serving in the military, who has given more than a moment's thought to this, really believe there won't come a point in the next five years or so where transgender service members are serving openly? I think most people who've put some thought into this know that it's not a question of whether America will have openly transgender service members at some point, but rather a question of when we'll have it.
So with that in mind, do you agree it's a question of "when" and not "if"? And if you agree it's a "when," how soon do you believe we'll see open transgender military service?
http://www.palmcenter.org/files/services%20out%20of%20compliance%20memo.pdf
This followed a report from last March where former Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders led a group that concluded there were no sound medical reasons why transgender people couldn't serve in the military services. It also followed an August report outlining a blueprint for how transgender people can be integrated into the military services - integrated much in the same way as 18 of our allies have already accomplished within their military services.
Military Times covered release of this latest report by the Palm Center. "A change to a Pentagon personnel policy three months ago loosens the rules barring transgender troops from serving in the U.S. military," stated the Army and Navy Times in their article entitled Report: Loophole could allow transgender troops to serve under new DoD policy, "giving the individual services leeway to retain these personnel." The article further stated, "The update -- to Defense Department Instruction 1332.18, Disability Evaluation System -- provides a loophole for the services to let transgender troops serve instead of requiring administrative separation, the Palm Center says."
The same socially conservative religious organizations that argued against repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) such as the Center for Military Readiness, the Center for Security Policy, and the Family Research Council, are using almost identical arguments. In the end, those arguments didn't work and DADT was repealed.
DADT was a federal law passed in 1993 that barred lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) service members from serving openly in the military services, and the law needed repeal before LGB service members could serve openly in recent years. All that bars transgender people from serving openly now is the DoD and individual service regulations. And, it appears that the overarching DoD regulation was weakened last August so that the four DoD military services could change their rules now to allow open transgender service.
The military didn't implode when LGB service members could serve openly in the American military services; the military won't implode if – or when - transgender service members can serve openly in the American military services. Honestly, does anybody currently serving in the military, who has given more than a moment's thought to this, really believe there won't come a point in the next five years or so where transgender service members are serving openly? I think most people who've put some thought into this know that it's not a question of whether America will have openly transgender service members at some point, but rather a question of when we'll have it.
So with that in mind, do you agree it's a question of "when" and not "if"? And if you agree it's a "when," how soon do you believe we'll see open transgender military service?
Policy
Transgender
Don't ask Don't tell (DADT)
Command Post
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 163
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I'm gonna say 'when' not if, but I would highly disagree with a policy that would medically favor one SM over another. If Transgendered SMs are going to want the Army to pay full boat, for all the medical care (physical and mental) that will be required, then I think we're gonna go broke. Other SM are going to want elective surgeries because after all its the fair thing to do.
I foresee that once that starts happening, there will be an influx of SMs who are fine at MEPS and then suddenly are going through a gender identity crisis once initial entry training is done.
I have served with many LGB SM over the 20 years of my affiliation with the Army, and the last 13 years of service. There is a huge difference between those who identify as LGB and those who identity as transgendered- it's mostly monetary, but there is nothing I have to do with my gay johnies at a platoon level. I just have to make sure they're trained to do the job. Not sure it will be that way if I ever get transgendered johhnies.
But hey, as long as they don't have tattoos...
I foresee that once that starts happening, there will be an influx of SMs who are fine at MEPS and then suddenly are going through a gender identity crisis once initial entry training is done.
I have served with many LGB SM over the 20 years of my affiliation with the Army, and the last 13 years of service. There is a huge difference between those who identify as LGB and those who identity as transgendered- it's mostly monetary, but there is nothing I have to do with my gay johnies at a platoon level. I just have to make sure they're trained to do the job. Not sure it will be that way if I ever get transgendered johhnies.
But hey, as long as they don't have tattoos...
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1SG (Join to see)
The army does pay for elective refractive eye surgery. You are endorsed by your optometrist and have to get you company and battalion commanders approval (It is not a necessity but a want). I have had many Soldiers receive this elective surgery and you do become non-deplyable for it (which is why that mass influx of applications are seen pre/post deployment). Cosmetic surgery I have only seen for a family member (but there may be SM's that have received it, I don't know).
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PO2 Mark Saffell
He brings up a good point. So if a female wants bigger boobs while in the service the government should have to pay for that surgery.
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PV2 Violet Case
I fully say that any cosmetic surgery should be paid for but the individual not the government. When I wanted my bridge in the front done in porcelain how ever they did it instead of the way it was done before I was told it was cosmetic and I would have to pay for it myself. Well I saved up and paid for it myself and was only out for a day on sick call. So some cosmetic surgeries would take you out of the lines of duty for some time whos paying for that also? Any cosmetic should be up to the person not the government. I'm proud of my smile and so happy I paid for having it done myself. It also gives a person some self pride to no they worked for what they want in life.
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SPC Matt Ovaska
As a disable combat vet, the VA has ignored my Agent orange issue. I moved next to Ft. Lee and hear the choppers and shooting range as constant reminders of lost soldiers...
When the VA in 1973. realized the their mistake, there was a fire in St. Louis, MO. Only the Vietnam records were destroyed. I have my original DD214. The VA says I could have forged it. I showed them a picture of me standing in front of my Company sign with my jungle fatigues, boots, and M-14. They said, "We don't use pictures." I called the Pres. hot line. They hung up. I called back, The lady offered my a free coloring book. 40+ vets will commit suicide today. Gentlemen, we have a problem.
When the VA in 1973. realized the their mistake, there was a fire in St. Louis, MO. Only the Vietnam records were destroyed. I have my original DD214. The VA says I could have forged it. I showed them a picture of me standing in front of my Company sign with my jungle fatigues, boots, and M-14. They said, "We don't use pictures." I called the Pres. hot line. They hung up. I called back, The lady offered my a free coloring book. 40+ vets will commit suicide today. Gentlemen, we have a problem.
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I want to downvote every single comment in this thread that quotes a bible verse or has a picture of Jesus on it. Would that be wrong? Well, I simply don't have the time anyway... Someone has spammed the thread by throwing it in my face.
At the risk of getting in the way of another colossal military social experiment, I'll keep the rest to myself.
At the risk of getting in the way of another colossal military social experiment, I'll keep the rest to myself.
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PO1 Steven Kuhn
SFC (Join to see) I agree that there have been wars since probably cave man days, but I am only willing to take someone's life to protect myself, family, or those who cannot protect themselves. I will not kill to promote my religion, gain power, or money. While the world may be full of idiots, sometimes we must fight those idiots to maintain the precious freedoms we "currently" enjoy. There will come a day when we will beat our swords into plowshares, but that day is not here yet......
r/
Steve
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Steve
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SFC (Join to see)
PO1 Steven Kuhn War breeds pain. Pain creates hatred. Hatred leads to war. It is a vicious cycle.
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PO1 Steven Kuhn
@SFC Wilson Fung I know in my heart that peace is the way it should be, it is possible, and it is coming sooner with each day....
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Steve
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Steve
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SGT John Prolo
Good! Glad you were never on any of my jumps. I’ll take god over a transgender every day in the week and twice on Sunday. The military should not used as a governmental petri dish. Tax payer dollars should not be spent on one’s sexual identity.
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When, not if, will the military start paying for cosmetic surgery for anyone who wants it? Born with breasts too small? Get bigger ones. Born with the wrong nose? Get a new one. The military is obligated to pay for it.
*sarcasm emoticon*
*sarcasm emoticon*
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I won't vote up or down, but will say this it should be kept simple "Honoring Men And Women Killed In Action" that is all, stop the segregation of everything that is causing hate, discontent, and separation.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Before Obama leaves office, Ash Carter will be blamed for any and all repercussions. This is but another albatross around the collective necks of military. When we get to a point that there is no partitioning of our military by PC groupings, things will get better, but that is extremely unlikely. Can someone tell me the benefit of accepting this as the norm?
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The simple fact that this discussion is a real thing makes all the "real" servicemen mourn.
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SSG Willis Baker
With todays government and society the way it is, it will happen. How long will it last will be the question. How many soldiers are going to get hurt because of the government's decision?
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It seems to me that all of the various labels they are assigning to people, ie: African American, Gay, Transgender, Christian, Jew, Muslim. and any other you can think of, is just another way for THEM to divide us. I realize I'm not answering the question but, does anybody think we can advance as a species if we keep allowing the powers that be, divide and separate us from each other?
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SSG Kevin McCulley
My question is, will you get UCMJ'ed for using the wrong pronoun when talking about your commander?
...but I'm totally trolling.
...but I'm totally trolling.
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SPC Matt Ovaska
I guess if you were born in Africa like Obama and you would like to be recognized as African American. No problem. Most black folks were born in American. I call them Americans. We don't call folks Mexican Americans. Why do we label black folks? I served with some fine American soldiers from Harlem. Made some good friends.
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This is a very touchy subject matter, many will try and be PC or will not give a darn about being PC, few will say straight out what they think on this website, which may indeed be a good thing.
I will be honest; I could not imagine, not fathom and honestly my skin crawled when I thought of serving with a transgender person. All the stupid, childish thoughts and stereotypes filled my head...ALTHOUGH I never met one that I know of.
THEN I met someone who served with Kristen Beck (When he was a man; Chris Beck the SEAL) and had an open conversation with him, then I reached out to Kristen and I have to say I rarely have had so much respect and gratitude for a warrior who served our country like I do with Kristin Beck.
Watch the film "Lady Valor" if you have not yet, it paints a clear picture that it has little or nothing to do with choice.
I have the utmost respect for anyone who can face this challenge of a lifetime and I am the first to admit I have much to learn.
Steven
I will be honest; I could not imagine, not fathom and honestly my skin crawled when I thought of serving with a transgender person. All the stupid, childish thoughts and stereotypes filled my head...ALTHOUGH I never met one that I know of.
THEN I met someone who served with Kristen Beck (When he was a man; Chris Beck the SEAL) and had an open conversation with him, then I reached out to Kristen and I have to say I rarely have had so much respect and gratitude for a warrior who served our country like I do with Kristin Beck.
Watch the film "Lady Valor" if you have not yet, it paints a clear picture that it has little or nothing to do with choice.
I have the utmost respect for anyone who can face this challenge of a lifetime and I am the first to admit I have much to learn.
Steven
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SSgt Nicole Biscoe
It's an excellent movie!! I was fortunate enough to actually see the screening of the movie in NYC with Kristen Beck...she is absolutely amazing. Her book "Warrior Princess" is also a good read for anyone interested! :)
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
I think she sees the plight of the others who do not have the attention, she is using this to try and help others, not sure what special consideration you are speaking of, she is retired.
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Well its law and that's- the Bottom line with a open transgender military service-TIME NOW. Here is a chronological timeline in the military.
http://www.usni.org/news-and-features/dont-ask-dont-tell/timeline
http://www.usni.org/news-and-features/dont-ask-dont-tell/timeline
Key Dates in US Policy on Gay Men and Women in Military Service | U.S. Naval Institute
The Mission of the Institute is to provide an independent forum for those who dare to read, think, speak, and write in order to advance the professional, literary, and scientific understanding of sea power and other issues critical to national defense.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SSG James J. Palmer IV, here's the deal with the vast majority of the "drive-by" down votes. If you look at the profiles of the people casting the DV, 9 times out of 10, they are new to RP and they are simply unfamiliar with significance of the vote itself. I've actually ran a few down before, just to ask them "why", and then to explain how it works here. Turns out, despite the little pop-up message, they are clueless, they merely believe they are casting a vote as to whether or not they concur, not that they are deeply offended, insulted, or outraged. We need better orientation for newcomers! That should help fix most of it!
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SFC (Join to see)
[~561128: Capt (Verify To See): Agreed, I too don't want to have other's sexuality shoved in my face. I think the problems will start when all taxpayers will have to pay for the transformation "care".
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - Have you looked in the mirror and wondered why yours is forced every minute of the day on others. As for tax payer dollars the DOD spends more on the ED drugs then Trans care so if you really want to get picky we can cut that, we can cut support for spouse and children, your health issues related to smoking or drinking, your health issues related to your poor decisions and we can get even more detailed if need be.
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SFC (Join to see)
[~1750248: SGT (Verify To See): Way to go! Thank goodness we have you to expose all of the hetero atrocities and failures in the military. You are truly the voice of truth! More power to ya & bless your dear heart!
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SPC Matt Ovaska
I have many Mohawk friends. There were times when only a few of us were allowed on the Res. I call it the Akwesasne Nation.
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