College
College
22
22
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We are in big trouble...
The UCSD numbers represented an astounding jump from 1% of students needing remediation back in 2021 to 12.5% of students needing remediation just four years later. According to the report, factors contributing to this increase included persistent learning losses due to the pandemic, the elimination of standardized testing, grade inflation, and increased admissions from “under-resourced high schools.” On one hand, I was absolutely floored by those numbers. At the same time, however, I was not surprised that these students needed remediation in elementary and middle school math concepts. An EdChoice article discussing the 2024 NAEP scores noted that only 22% of 12th-grade students were proficient or above in math, and only 35% were proficient or above in reading.
The UCSD numbers represented an astounding jump from 1% of students needing remediation back in 2021 to 12.5% of students needing remediation just four years later. According to the report, factors contributing to this increase included persistent learning losses due to the pandemic, the elimination of standardized testing, grade inflation, and increased admissions from “under-resourced high schools.” On one hand, I was absolutely floored by those numbers. At the same time, however, I was not surprised that these students needed remediation in elementary and middle school math concepts. An EdChoice article discussing the 2024 NAEP scores noted that only 22% of 12th-grade students were proficient or above in math, and only 35% were proficient or above in reading.
Building Proficient Learners - FEE
Posted from fee.org
Reading
Mathematics
College
Education
University of Southern California
Edited 21 d ago
Posted 21 d ago
Responses: 11
16
16
0
Lt Col Charlie Brown I'm not so sure I buy these results. We had a dip in Tennessee Comprehensive Assessment scores immediately after the COVID pandemic, however, my school district is actually above where we were pre-pandemic (per the standardized Tennessee testing results last school year). In fact, just yesterday we found out that Science Hill High School is a reward school. I'm not doubting some districts haven't made any progress I just don't believe it is as bad as they are saying.
In Tennessee, schools are recognized as a Reward school when they demonstrate high levels of performance and/or improvement in performance. In 2024-25, schools earn Reward status based on their performance on the federal accountability system—A school is recognized as a Reward school when (1) it has an overall school score of 3.1 or higher per federal accountability calculation; and (2) is not identified as a CSI/Priority, TSI, or ATSI.
One of the things I think would help to improve math skills is to take away the calculators in the elementary schools. You wouldn't believe how many students don't know their multiplication table or how to do fraction in high school.
In Tennessee, schools are recognized as a Reward school when they demonstrate high levels of performance and/or improvement in performance. In 2024-25, schools earn Reward status based on their performance on the federal accountability system—A school is recognized as a Reward school when (1) it has an overall school score of 3.1 or higher per federal accountability calculation; and (2) is not identified as a CSI/Priority, TSI, or ATSI.
One of the things I think would help to improve math skills is to take away the calculators in the elementary schools. You wouldn't believe how many students don't know their multiplication table or how to do fraction in high school.
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MSG Thomas Currie
The system you describe in Tennessee seems to be unique or nearly so. The more common system across the US seems to be programs that reward schools for failure and punish those same schools if they subsequently improve.
The federal so-called Department of Education has several programs that provide money to under-performing schools -- money which stops if the school ceases to under-perform.
The federal so-called Department of Education has several programs that provide money to under-performing schools -- money which stops if the school ceases to under-perform.
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Cpl Vic Burk
MSG Thomas Currie - We don't get any funds for being a reward school. It's a matter of pride. The reward is satisfaction in my mind that we are better preparing our students for the work force or to succeed in college.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
Cpl Vic Burk -
Words Of Praise For The Students Progress & Achievements Can Do Wonders For Any Student And It Even Builds Their Self Confidents To Do Better In All Areas Of Their Life.
Words Of Praise For The Students Progress & Achievements Can Do Wonders For Any Student And It Even Builds Their Self Confidents To Do Better In All Areas Of Their Life.
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Cpl Vic Burk
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - I commend students often on their work. On the electronic grade book we use these days I also make comments like, "Excellent Job," "Highest score in the class," "Great effort," etc. The parents can see these also.
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The failure of an education system to provide the basics of a proper well rounded education. Basic reading, math, social studies and even things like Home economics or wood and metal shop and even gym being covered. These were all things We ALL learned from High school in earlier days. We were prepared for both the job market as well college or other post high school schooling.
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11
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People don't realize the downstream effect of interrupting the flow of education. Covid not only delayed many kids Social growth it also stopped their development in both Reading and Math.
And classes held over Zoom were dismal failures. Kids got busted by putting up static screen shots while they ran around the house.
Timing is so important. Kids in First through Sixth, were impacted much more than kids in later grades, simply because they hadn't learned the basics yet. Get it wrong in the beginning and it takes a lot to unlearn it later.
And with Einstein in your pocket (smartphone) kids are learning smarter prompts, and how to ask more specific questions. Why learn when you can simply....ask.
And classes held over Zoom were dismal failures. Kids got busted by putting up static screen shots while they ran around the house.
Timing is so important. Kids in First through Sixth, were impacted much more than kids in later grades, simply because they hadn't learned the basics yet. Get it wrong in the beginning and it takes a lot to unlearn it later.
And with Einstein in your pocket (smartphone) kids are learning smarter prompts, and how to ask more specific questions. Why learn when you can simply....ask.
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SGT Kevin Hughes
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - My Grandfather, who went to school in upstate New York - only had an 8th Grade Education circa 1870 (he was 32 when my Dad was born in 1901). And for 8th Grade, back then, you had to be able to survey 40 acres of land, trap, skin, and dress wild game, slaughter. pigs and chickens, read and write cursive, and do Math for business and land uses. Oh, and build a one room cabin, a fireplace, and fire a weapon. 8th grade.
Later in life he ran for Mayor of a small town. And his opponent pointed out his 8th Grade Education and said: "Who needs that level of Education!" LOL
Later in life he ran for Mayor of a small town. And his opponent pointed out his 8th Grade Education and said: "Who needs that level of Education!" LOL
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SGT Kevin Hughes -
Back In The 18th & 19th Centuries Schools Taught Hunting, Fishing, Farming, Maintenance & Repairs, Animal Care, And Other Such Needs Of The Day. -- I Don't Think We Can Say That Today, Once We've Learned The Basics Of Math, English, Reading And Writing - All By The 6th Grade, That's About It -- The Rest Of The Years Are More Of The Same, With Little Benefit To The Students. LOL.. "8th Grade Mayor" - We Need More Of Those; Our Brilliant Politicians Of The Day May Hold PhD's But Many Lack Being Educated, They Just Attended College - Other Than The Professional Skills - Medical, Engineering, Law, And Such, I Can't See Much Need For College Attendance -- Just From My Experiences From Conversations I've Had With Some Of My Friends Whom Do Have Them...Ray Ritter, DDS, My Bow Hunting, And Best Of Male Friends Told Me " Rick, If We Could Get Rid Of All The Bull Shit Useless Subjects Which Were Required In College To Get Our Degrees, I Could Have Been A Dentist In About 6 - 9 Months"
Then Further Added, "What We Were NOT Taught Is How To Fill Out Insurance Forms, What Equipment Would Be Necessary, Basic Office Procedures Such As The Accounting And Most Other Information We'd Need Just to Open Our Practice. We Had One Hell Of A Time Trying To Figure Out What We Needed To Know. That's What We Should Have Spent The Time Learning, Instead of All The Crap We Didn't Need."
Back In The 18th & 19th Centuries Schools Taught Hunting, Fishing, Farming, Maintenance & Repairs, Animal Care, And Other Such Needs Of The Day. -- I Don't Think We Can Say That Today, Once We've Learned The Basics Of Math, English, Reading And Writing - All By The 6th Grade, That's About It -- The Rest Of The Years Are More Of The Same, With Little Benefit To The Students. LOL.. "8th Grade Mayor" - We Need More Of Those; Our Brilliant Politicians Of The Day May Hold PhD's But Many Lack Being Educated, They Just Attended College - Other Than The Professional Skills - Medical, Engineering, Law, And Such, I Can't See Much Need For College Attendance -- Just From My Experiences From Conversations I've Had With Some Of My Friends Whom Do Have Them...Ray Ritter, DDS, My Bow Hunting, And Best Of Male Friends Told Me " Rick, If We Could Get Rid Of All The Bull Shit Useless Subjects Which Were Required In College To Get Our Degrees, I Could Have Been A Dentist In About 6 - 9 Months"
Then Further Added, "What We Were NOT Taught Is How To Fill Out Insurance Forms, What Equipment Would Be Necessary, Basic Office Procedures Such As The Accounting And Most Other Information We'd Need Just to Open Our Practice. We Had One Hell Of A Time Trying To Figure Out What We Needed To Know. That's What We Should Have Spent The Time Learning, Instead of All The Crap We Didn't Need."
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MSG Thomas Currie
SGT Kevin Hughes - we cannot spend the rest of the century blaming everything in the world on "COVID" -- yes the ridiculous response to COVID did further disrupt our already-broken educational system, causing many students to be effectively one year behind those who had already completed studies prior to 2019. And, yes, some schools are still resorting to "remote learning" whenever the slightest excuse presents itself.
But none of that provides adequate explanation for high school graduates entering college unable to perform basic arithmetic. The UCSD study reflects college students who cannot perform middle-school level math.
This is especially troubling for anyone old enough to recognize that we have repeatedly lowered the bar by "re-norming" the systemic expectations for what constitutes "grade level" performance in both math and reading. We are talking about students who enter college unable to reach even the lowered-level expectations for the 6th-grade. And now we have state governments that have enacted legislation to completely eliminate the math and reading requirements on the basis that having any literacy requirement is automatically racist.
But none of that provides adequate explanation for high school graduates entering college unable to perform basic arithmetic. The UCSD study reflects college students who cannot perform middle-school level math.
This is especially troubling for anyone old enough to recognize that we have repeatedly lowered the bar by "re-norming" the systemic expectations for what constitutes "grade level" performance in both math and reading. We are talking about students who enter college unable to reach even the lowered-level expectations for the 6th-grade. And now we have state governments that have enacted legislation to completely eliminate the math and reading requirements on the basis that having any literacy requirement is automatically racist.
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SGT Kevin Hughes
MSG Thomas Currie - Surprisingly Top, I had a Catholic School Education and other Faiths paid extra for their kids to attend. And those Nuns taught things the way they were, they did not sugar coat the shortcomings of the Catholic Church, and were just as relentless against Cromwell, Henry the VIII and others.
I think one of the major differences in my 1950's Education, and today's...is that each of the Nuns had at least a Master's Degree in their subject. So I was taught only Math, by my Math teacher...she wasn't worried about Social or Cultural Adaptations. Nor was she concerned about my home life (unless they saw Red Flags).
When I went to Jr. College I was amazed that I had already learned most of the Biology they taught at the College Level, from the Nuns. But it is a new world out there now Top...and I think if the Khan Academy and YouTube Science Channels were available back them...I might have graduated from college...at ten! You can't stop someone from learning if they really want it.
I think one of the major differences in my 1950's Education, and today's...is that each of the Nuns had at least a Master's Degree in their subject. So I was taught only Math, by my Math teacher...she wasn't worried about Social or Cultural Adaptations. Nor was she concerned about my home life (unless they saw Red Flags).
When I went to Jr. College I was amazed that I had already learned most of the Biology they taught at the College Level, from the Nuns. But it is a new world out there now Top...and I think if the Khan Academy and YouTube Science Channels were available back them...I might have graduated from college...at ten! You can't stop someone from learning if they really want it.
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