Posted on Jun 15, 2015
Army Commander requires troops to wear ACUs with no badges/combat patches?
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What is RP"s thoughts on this "extreme makeover" Army edition?
http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-colonel-makes-uniform-adjustment-during-training/article/1553718?custom_click=rss
http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-colonel-makes-uniform-adjustment-during-training/article/1553718?custom_click=rss
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 81
I can understand both sides of the argument. however, I must take the side of the Joe.....yes, we are supposed to work as a team. however, people earn those badges, and not all of us are Rangers and Special Forces.this is just another attempt to adapt to a collectivism or a combination type of society. just think about it... We got drinking age laws.....I guess we need to band NCO clubs, bowling alleys, or the clubs downtown just because some people are not old enough to drink. I kinda hope you see where I'm going at
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The Commander might order the Soldiers to remove all the stuff from there Uniforms but when your in a unit you know you has what Tab's who has what combat patch, the Commander stripping everyone down to make the new guys fit in all that does make it easy for the guys with some time in to give them a hard time. I mean who has not hazed new boot's before. The hell this Commander is bringing down on his new guys. I Can see where he meant for his plan to lead, but knowing and having talked to a bunch of young soldiers the new guys in 1 group and everyone else messing with them in the other group, oh forgot the SFC and up group when there around everything is great.
Just let the new guys get some schools in maybe a gunnery or 2 and all is well. Scouts Out
Just let the new guys get some schools in maybe a gunnery or 2 and all is well. Scouts Out
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It's up to the commander I don't see why it's such a big deal to people that aren't affected by it in in this brigade and it gives me no issue that I can't wear it my soldiers know what I have done and seen they have asked and I have shared it's about cohesion not accomplishments as a leader you train not take recognition if you can't understand that you need to reset your moral compass
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
the big deal is not about the patches really, its more the fact that he is going against a part of the regulation that explicitly tells him not to restrict or discourage the wear of items authorized to wear. by regulation.
if the boss breaks the rules...
if the boss breaks the rules...
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Teamwork is sometimes shown to be more conductive in a working environment by establishing a standard. The Commander is sets the standard. In doing this he must rely on his NCO's to enforce and adhere to the standard.
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What sort of self loathing is this? Combat patches have always been an inspiration to those of us who haven't been to combat. They symbolize the veteran leader that has seen the elephant and knows what it takes to survive the experience. So now we want to take away the patch in the field? I know why the COL wants to do this. He wants to even the playing field because he has junior officers and NCOs with no combat experience trying to train the next generation of troops. Well you want that guy with the patch present to add validity to the tactics and techniques you are training. I can't believe a BDE CDR would take the PC feel good route.
I think this is BS but I am retired and have no skin in the game. What do you all think?
I think this is BS but I am retired and have no skin in the game. What do you all think?
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These patches are something to be proud of, and a record to show fellow soldiers. The young troops look up to someone who has "done it all", and since when has a Colonel had the authority to go against the regs. Maybe the Colonel has had desk jobs all his career and has a problem with NCO's, who are all patched up.
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Regardless of whether or not its in the field, they should be able to wear it if they want. I wear mine not because I feel the need to show others I've deployed. I wear it because that's how I honor my brothers that I spent a year dodging bullets and rockets with. And for the guys we had that didn't make it home. So for me, the patch on my right arm has more of a personal meaning to it.
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I like it. I've never cared for any of the flair anyway, and he's right; it's someone's character that matters, and not much else.
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SFC Nikhil Kumra, this was done by a commander with poor experience molding soldiers.
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CPT Pedro Meza
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, thank you for the Bio, there is a disconnect between his Bio and his orders; just doesn't makes sense.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CPT Pedro Meza I "think" I see where he is coming from. For a singular training evolution, there is nothing wrong with sanitizing the uniform to build esprit de corps. He's not saying people can't wear them ever, just for this one event. If he said not "flair" ever, I would be completely on board with most posters regarding the issue.
But for a singular event, does the presence of those indicators promote or detract from training (or neither)? If it doesn't actively promote the training, then is it needed?
But for a singular event, does the presence of those indicators promote or detract from training (or neither)? If it doesn't actively promote the training, then is it needed?
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CPT Pedro Meza
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, Thank you and I see your point, for me it hard to understand given the fact that I have a third MOS as an instructor since 1984, which also explains my photo; I was an instructor roll player during AT 2011.
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I agree....BAD IDEA. Maybe because I have cool guy badges but still I think bad Idea.
As a private, I was inspired to attend schools and Looked up to my leaders BECAUSE of them. This guy is AIRBORNE, that guy has a CIB, WOW that guy has an EIB....That Medic knows his stuff...Look a CMB or a EFMB...
It is a good thing for young troops to aspire to the EIB or the Jump Wings or the Oft Coveted Bullwinkle Badge. It has worked since before World War Two...don't fix what ain't broken
As a private, I was inspired to attend schools and Looked up to my leaders BECAUSE of them. This guy is AIRBORNE, that guy has a CIB, WOW that guy has an EIB....That Medic knows his stuff...Look a CMB or a EFMB...
It is a good thing for young troops to aspire to the EIB or the Jump Wings or the Oft Coveted Bullwinkle Badge. It has worked since before World War Two...don't fix what ain't broken
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If you really want to put everyone on an equal footing have them remove their rank.
The fact of the matter is that while were all one team, we are not all on equal footing. Soldiers earned those combat patches and they should be encouraged to wear them. Acknowledging someones accomplishments doesn't lessen my own. I don't think this is a good idea.
The fact of the matter is that while were all one team, we are not all on equal footing. Soldiers earned those combat patches and they should be encouraged to wear them. Acknowledging someones accomplishments doesn't lessen my own. I don't think this is a good idea.
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He won't be a commander for long.. Soldiers have earned those, who do he think he is to change the Reg.??
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
MSG (Join to see), from testimony here on RP from folks that have known this guy, it sounds like this is SOP for him.
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SGT Richard H.
I kind of doubt the notion that "he won't be a commander for long". He's been one for 20 years, and he's damn good at it.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
He's not actually changing the reg from what others have posted. He's using discretionary authority within the Reg during a Training evolution. Were he doing this in a Garrison environment, that would be going against the Reg.
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS AR 670-1 gives him authority to designate what uniform to wear, as in ACUs instead of IPFUs, or sanitized ACUs for combatives as opposed to regular ACUs....or A2CUs instead of ACUs, etc.
The same AR 670-1 explicitly states however, that Commanders WILL NOT restrict or discourage soldiers from wearing what they are authorized by the same regulation to wear.
There's no discretionary authority to tell his soldiers to remove patches and badges they've earned and are authorized to wear.
The same AR 670-1 explicitly states however, that Commanders WILL NOT restrict or discourage soldiers from wearing what they are authorized by the same regulation to wear.
There's no discretionary authority to tell his soldiers to remove patches and badges they've earned and are authorized to wear.
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This commander should be happy that he is in the Army and not the Air Force... His order would be illegal in the AF (to a certain degree anyway). By Air Force Regulations, Chaplain, and all flight wings WILL BE WORN. All others are optional. I miss my combat patch from my old Army days....and I was pretty sore about having to take it off (and still am to a certain degree) when I joined the AF. I found a loophole when I deployed to Afghanistan....I wore ACU/FRACU.... it is an ARMY uniform that I had to apply an AF Tape to.... but because it was an Army Uniform, I was able to wear my Combat Patch again from Desert Storm!
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Maj Chris Nelson, actually it is all "wings" not just "flight" So those space and cyber wings are mandatory too. A friend of mine was a cyber officer, got out, became a nurse and came back in. They get weird looks when the nurse comes in with cyber wings on (because they HAVE to wear them).
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Actually, Jump wings are NOT considered Aeronautical Badges per the AFI, but they do rate to be place above all Occupational badges (but below Chaplain, Aero, Cybers, and Space Wing). The "Pocket Rocket" with Wreath is also a mandatory badge. AA is not an aero badge either, same with HALO.
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Maj Chris Nelson
I don't wear any of those, so had never had reason to actually LOOK. Thank you for the info!!
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SGT (Join to see)
I think that if a soldier has combat unit insignia Patches and badges that they have the right to wear them.
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That's fantastic! I respect the idea behind it and I find this funny because I posted a similar topic not long ago. I personally don't think we should wear it in our combat uniform. Only in our dress blues. If someone needs to know your accomplishments they could, oh I don't know, maybe talk to you?!
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
CW2 Stephen Pate , I'm trying to reconcile the violation of an Army Regulation versus your endorsement of it.
Funny idea or not, it bothers me that a BDE CDR decides to violate a regulation and suddenly it is ok.
Regular soldiers violating regulations get in trouble every 6.6 seconds.
Funny idea or not, it bothers me that a BDE CDR decides to violate a regulation and suddenly it is ok.
Regular soldiers violating regulations get in trouble every 6.6 seconds.
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CW2 Stephen Pate
Please explain how this is a violation of a regulation. I haven't looked but last time I checked the commander dictates the uniform.
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There have been several responses stating that this was a "PC" move on his part. I disagree somewhat; I believe that it's less about sparing feelings of new soldiers and more about reminding those with tabs/badges/patches that they can't just rest on their laurels. You might be an Airborne Ranger Sniper Expert Infantryman... that's awesome, but what are you doing TODAY to earn the respect of your subordinates and peers?
Also, from my understanding, this is only for wear in the field.
Also, from my understanding, this is only for wear in the field.
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
Regardless of environment, it is still a violation of an Army Regulation, is it not?
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I've always understood it, commanders can add to the rules and regulations, but not subtract from them.
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i got messed up in basic, but honestly, i have to say this, this guy has a great idea, they are letting the enemy into our military, the less you show where you have been, the less of a target you will be, and honestly, the more valued troops know each other, and thats what counts. showing all that on your sleeves, yes, it's a badge of honor, but it can also be a target painted on you, and i see where this man is coming from. just putting on the uniform is really a target, but even more so with the more medals you have, as they think some really weird stuff, along with the fact that hey, if you were a sniper, and you took out the enemy colonel, what kind of congratulations would you receive from your peers? think about it.
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I've missed whatever point he was trying to make. So do I wear all my gear in my DA photo? What about promotion boards? I can see him making this a personal choice, but I disagree with the unilateral decisions. It's within his rights, of course, but this choice seems arbitrary and personal.
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I did always think that a Soldier's uniform looked a bit like that of a North Korean General's! :)
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