Posted on Nov 13, 2015
How many of us had trouble distinguishing the rank of approaching commissioned, non-commissioned or warrant officers on field uniforms??
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Fatigue, battledress and other work and combat uniforms had subdued rank most of the time. Some ranks are very distinctive such as Captain [double bars], Colonel [eagle], and General Officer [black star or multiple]. However 1st LT and Warrant Officer looked very close and sometimes Majors and Lieutenant Colonels looked very close especially in the rain, snow, etc.
When I was a private in the 1970s I couldn't tell sometimes if a LT or a Chief Warrant Officer was approaching me. I would salute usually and wasn't sure at that time if I was supposed to salute Warrant Officers.
Did you have trouble recognizing officer rank?
When I was a private in the 1970s I couldn't tell sometimes if a LT or a Chief Warrant Officer was approaching me. I would salute usually and wasn't sure at that time if I was supposed to salute Warrant Officers.
Did you have trouble recognizing officer rank?
Rank
Troops
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 125
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every unit crest on a beret in the right light can look like officer rank - and every officer rank on a beret in the right light can look like a unit crest - I got into trouble so many times because of that confusion
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On occasion I'm sure we all have made that mistake. I have; although generally it's if the other person is backlit. That's my alibi!
A couple of times when I was a Specialist (and perhaps also because I was a tad older than the average SPC) I would have a young private whip up a quick salute to me as I approached; presumably they thought a was an LTC or something. Normally I'd ignore it as most guys do, but I once responded to a salute with "you've got to be kidding me" and this poor kid was totally confused-I'm not sure if it ever dawned on him.
A couple of times when I was a Specialist (and perhaps also because I was a tad older than the average SPC) I would have a young private whip up a quick salute to me as I approached; presumably they thought a was an LTC or something. Normally I'd ignore it as most guys do, but I once responded to a salute with "you've got to be kidding me" and this poor kid was totally confused-I'm not sure if it ever dawned on him.
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SFC Jim Ruether
It happened to me as a Specialist and I saluted back smartly and told him to carry on! I didn't want to embarrass the poor lad.
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I don't know, from the old "c##t" cap, tanker's cap, baseball cap, sauser hat, to berets, I lost track of where to find rank.
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LCDR (Join to see)
WHY is the Navy changing uniforms so often? I date back to enlisted dungarees and officer/cpo short sleeved khakis (including the service dress khakis with jacket and shoulder boards).
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When I was in tech school, I had trouble with the Navy guys as we all thought every member of the Navy was a Colonel. It was funny really.
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LTC Stephen F.
After I had 12 years of continuous good conduct, I rated gold Petty Officer chevrons, and wore them on my coveralls while underway. I was on an Amphibious ship, so we carried Marines. Boot Marines (LCPL's and PFC's) would see gold on my collar, jump out of my way/hug the bulkhead, come to attention and shout "Good Morning Sir!!!" At first I tried to train them and say "I know you're trained to salute gold so it's a bit confusing, but I'm a Petty Officer. The easiest way to tell is look at the color of my belt. If it's black I'm not an Officer or a Chief. If it's khaki colored, that's an Officer or a Chief." Eventually it got to be easier to just say "Good morning Marine, carry on..."
After I had 12 years of continuous good conduct, I rated gold Petty Officer chevrons, and wore them on my coveralls while underway. I was on an Amphibious ship, so we carried Marines. Boot Marines (LCPL's and PFC's) would see gold on my collar, jump out of my way/hug the bulkhead, come to attention and shout "Good Morning Sir!!!" At first I tried to train them and say "I know you're trained to salute gold so it's a bit confusing, but I'm a Petty Officer. The easiest way to tell is look at the color of my belt. If it's black I'm not an Officer or a Chief. If it's khaki colored, that's an Officer or a Chief." Eventually it got to be easier to just say "Good morning Marine, carry on..."
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PO1 John Miller
CPT L S
Luckily(?) it was always enlisted Marines who called me Sir! It would have been really funny had an Officer Marine called me Sir!
Luckily(?) it was always enlisted Marines who called me Sir! It would have been really funny had an Officer Marine called me Sir!
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PO1 John Miller
CPT L S
But I imagine your parents probably taught you to call your elders Sir/Ma'am, so I'll grudgingly accept you calling me Sir! :)
But I imagine your parents probably taught you to call your elders Sir/Ma'am, so I'll grudgingly accept you calling me Sir! :)
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PO1 John Miller
CPT L S
I spend some time socializing with the older veterans at my VFW and American Legion posts myself. I need to get active in my DAV post as well. One of my CVMA brothers is the local DAV post commander so I've got no excuse! :)
I spend some time socializing with the older veterans at my VFW and American Legion posts myself. I need to get active in my DAV post as well. One of my CVMA brothers is the local DAV post commander so I've got no excuse! :)
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LTC Stephen F.
The only time in the Navy I had a problem was, once I saw a Chief Petty Officer wearing a gold warfare (breast) insignia so I saluted him. I had been trained that only Officers wore gold insignia and didn't recognize the "Air Crew" insignia. The Chief laughed after I explained and trained me on what his meant.
Fast forward to 2002. Chiefs recently started wearing their rank insignia on the shoulder boards of their Eisenhower jackets. Prior to that they wore them on the collar and only Officers wore them on the shoulder. I saluted quite a few Chiefs before I got used to it.
Fast forward to 2007 when I was stationed in Hawaii. I sometimes had to go over to Schofield Barracks. On the ACU uniforms, Soldiers wear a rank tab in the middle of their chest, verses the Navy who wears them on their collar of the NWU. So it looked like I would be staring at a person's chest when I was trying to figure out if I had to salute them or not. One female Captain got upset with me, either because I didn't salute quick enough for her or she thought I was looking at her assets. I said "Ma'am, I'm not used to Army uniforms."
The only time in the Navy I had a problem was, once I saw a Chief Petty Officer wearing a gold warfare (breast) insignia so I saluted him. I had been trained that only Officers wore gold insignia and didn't recognize the "Air Crew" insignia. The Chief laughed after I explained and trained me on what his meant.
Fast forward to 2002. Chiefs recently started wearing their rank insignia on the shoulder boards of their Eisenhower jackets. Prior to that they wore them on the collar and only Officers wore them on the shoulder. I saluted quite a few Chiefs before I got used to it.
Fast forward to 2007 when I was stationed in Hawaii. I sometimes had to go over to Schofield Barracks. On the ACU uniforms, Soldiers wear a rank tab in the middle of their chest, verses the Navy who wears them on their collar of the NWU. So it looked like I would be staring at a person's chest when I was trying to figure out if I had to salute them or not. One female Captain got upset with me, either because I didn't salute quick enough for her or she thought I was looking at her assets. I said "Ma'am, I'm not used to Army uniforms."
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I have more trouble with these new uniforms and where the rank is placed as a veteran than I ever did in our BDUs! I could differentiate an officer and enlisted on a BDU at distance (except warrant officers and 1LTs). Now I can't even tell with these new combat fatigues. I once called a light bird a specialist! Good thing I was a vet when I made that mistake, otherwise I surely would have been chewed out!
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LTC Stephen F.
Thank you for responding PFC Zanie Young and letting us know that, like many of us, have more "trouble with these new uniforms and where the rank is placed as a veteran than I ever did in our BDUs!"
As a retired infantry LTC I would probably have chuckled at you if you said that too me. The SPC shield certainly does resemble a black oak leaf at 10 feet or more on the center of the uniform - especially when both service members are approaching each other IMHO :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon PO1 H Gene Lawrence
As a retired infantry LTC I would probably have chuckled at you if you said that too me. The SPC shield certainly does resemble a black oak leaf at 10 feet or more on the center of the uniform - especially when both service members are approaching each other IMHO :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon PO1 H Gene Lawrence
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3d Cavalry's DUI caused me trouble back in the day... the gold bugle centered on the beret flash earned me more than a couple salutes from unwitting members of transient units going through mob/demob at Ft. Carson.
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LTC Stephen F.
Thank you for responding CPL Chris Palmberg that the 3d Cavalry Regiment coat of arms "caused me trouble back in the day with the gold bugle centered on the beret flash. I am attaching a picture for those unfamiliar.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon PO1 H Gene Lawrence
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon PO1 H Gene Lawrence
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CPL Chris Palmberg
I appreciate the addendum, sir. Shy of digging through the boxes we never managed to get unpacked in the basement, I would have been hard pressed to present a picture.
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I was in during the BDU days. Never had that issue until I started wearing a Beret. Our unit crest was similar to an oak leaf and I would get saluted all the time (as an NCO) My main issue is with the stupid tab on the new style uniforms. I keep looking at the collars and then have to do a double take at that damned tab. I believe it all started when the got the ECWCS system. The Goretex coat had no collars so the added the tab for rank.
But as to the main point of the question, if it’s gold or silver, I saluted. Who cares what the actual rank was. And sometimes I even saluted with all 5 fingers
But as to the main point of the question, if it’s gold or silver, I saluted. Who cares what the actual rank was. And sometimes I even saluted with all 5 fingers
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LTC Stephen F.
Thank you for responding SGT Floyd Shown and letting us know that your were a soldier in the days the BDUS were worn.
Yes unit flashes on berets could be confused since officers wore rank on the flash while enlisted ranks wore the unit flash.
The SPC shield worn on camo uniforms certainly does resemble a black oak leaf at 10 feet or more on the center of the uniform - especially when both service members are approaching each other IMHO :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon PO1 H Gene Lawrence
Yes unit flashes on berets could be confused since officers wore rank on the flash while enlisted ranks wore the unit flash.
The SPC shield worn on camo uniforms certainly does resemble a black oak leaf at 10 feet or more on the center of the uniform - especially when both service members are approaching each other IMHO :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SPC Margaret Higgins SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon PO1 H Gene Lawrence
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