Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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Seems really bizarre. I mean really bizarre. Like not pass the "sniff test" bizarre.
Unless we're on duty (or under arms), we don't wear covers indoors. I mean I can understand if someone just forgot when they walked in (because they had stuff in their hands).. but everyone and their brother would have pointed it out to him before he made it 15 feet. At which point "Oh, #^$, thanks!"
Now, if they were wearing a HAT, like civilian Hat (as opposed to a Cover) this story makes A LOT more sense. I've seen people get "stupid" about the "no hats inside" thing. It would also explain why the Marine was with his mother.
But a shouting match in the PX also seems odd. A Pvt-Sgt would have locked up the second a Lt-Capt identified themselves even after a "Who the #^&$ are you?" to which the only response is "I believe you mean 'Who the $^%& are you, Sir' Marine" in a calm collected voice.
Now Cpl & Cpl action... that I could see. Especially in civilian attire.
As for the "CSM" getting involved. We don't have Command Sergeants Major. We just have Sergeants Major, but if a couple Marines get into a pissing contest in the PX, any senior leader would have come up and "placed his hand" on (likely both) Marines' shoulders and escorted them out of the immediate vicinity to quell the disturbance, followed by "WTF is the issue here?"
I have a feeling the story has become hyperbolic with retelling.
Edit: Wanted to add, in no way questioning the Col's or his wife's account of the events. This is so "odd" that it just doesn't click right, which is why I expanded above. I really can't wrap my head around this happening, and honestly I would have just been shocked. Which likely would have explained the chain of events.
Unless we're on duty (or under arms), we don't wear covers indoors. I mean I can understand if someone just forgot when they walked in (because they had stuff in their hands).. but everyone and their brother would have pointed it out to him before he made it 15 feet. At which point "Oh, #^$, thanks!"
Now, if they were wearing a HAT, like civilian Hat (as opposed to a Cover) this story makes A LOT more sense. I've seen people get "stupid" about the "no hats inside" thing. It would also explain why the Marine was with his mother.
But a shouting match in the PX also seems odd. A Pvt-Sgt would have locked up the second a Lt-Capt identified themselves even after a "Who the #^&$ are you?" to which the only response is "I believe you mean 'Who the $^%& are you, Sir' Marine" in a calm collected voice.
Now Cpl & Cpl action... that I could see. Especially in civilian attire.
As for the "CSM" getting involved. We don't have Command Sergeants Major. We just have Sergeants Major, but if a couple Marines get into a pissing contest in the PX, any senior leader would have come up and "placed his hand" on (likely both) Marines' shoulders and escorted them out of the immediate vicinity to quell the disturbance, followed by "WTF is the issue here?"
I have a feeling the story has become hyperbolic with retelling.
Edit: Wanted to add, in no way questioning the Col's or his wife's account of the events. This is so "odd" that it just doesn't click right, which is why I expanded above. I really can't wrap my head around this happening, and honestly I would have just been shocked. Which likely would have explained the chain of events.
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Cpl Larry Frisbyii
There has to be more to the story because, I worked with the "young Marines" when I was active duty and they were never in uniform outside of the program and definitely not with parents. They were taught the basics to the best of our ability and most took to the training well.
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LTC John Wilson
In attempting to correct an improper correction of a Young Marine and LT, a SgtMajor bellowed to get their attention and directed them out of the MCX. This was not improper given the circumstances. Outside they were not disturbing the MCX and not making a scene. I do hope all tuned it down outside and recognized the error of the improper correction, and the improper reaction of the young Marine (Teenager) Not AD military.
Things don't always appear as they seem and a professional response to the incident would have cleared it up a lot quicker without the volume of noise it caused.
I was always taught to seize the day! I was also taught to put my brain in gear, before I put my mouth in motion. Believe me that has served me well and kept me from embarrassing myself in public and in private. Never, never, demean anyone in public, it just doesn't serve either party well.
Things don't always appear as they seem and a professional response to the incident would have cleared it up a lot quicker without the volume of noise it caused.
I was always taught to seize the day! I was also taught to put my brain in gear, before I put my mouth in motion. Believe me that has served me well and kept me from embarrassing myself in public and in private. Never, never, demean anyone in public, it just doesn't serve either party well.
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Suspended Profile
I believe it is close to a "there I was.." story. However, I did have an experience in a Commissary:
My wife and I were in the frozen foods aisle, a fellow service member was with his irritated son (approx. 5yr). The SM was quietly yelling at his boy to put his jacket on, as the son refused SM father took the coat and was forcefully trying to put the jacket on the boy, who didn't want to put it on. It escalated to where the son dropped to the floor in a tantrum, but not screaming or crying, just defying to put on the jacket. SM father grabbed the boy, yanked him up and raised his voice to which drew the attention of the those nearby. I don't know what compelled me, but I said "At Ease!".. the SM father stopped, looked at me and all I said after that was, there is a better way to handle that and a commissary isn't a place for a pissing contest. both of them quietly walked out.
My wife and I were in the frozen foods aisle, a fellow service member was with his irritated son (approx. 5yr). The SM was quietly yelling at his boy to put his jacket on, as the son refused SM father took the coat and was forcefully trying to put the jacket on the boy, who didn't want to put it on. It escalated to where the son dropped to the floor in a tantrum, but not screaming or crying, just defying to put on the jacket. SM father grabbed the boy, yanked him up and raised his voice to which drew the attention of the those nearby. I don't know what compelled me, but I said "At Ease!".. the SM father stopped, looked at me and all I said after that was, there is a better way to handle that and a commissary isn't a place for a pissing contest. both of them quietly walked out.
CPT (Join to see)
LTC John Wilson - Sir, I realize that every service has their individual peculiarities. The young officer needed some guidance from senior officers. Guidance from even the most senior NCO or Gunner needs to be delivered in a less conspicuous manner. Now being Army I will not claim to be all knowing regarding the USMC. I do have a few observations from over here.
1) If the officer was a 2/LT or even some 1/LTs he is realtively close in age to "potty mouth and may require a bit more seasoning to become proficient in the application of discipline.
2) I served with the 1st RGR BN at HAAF, GA. We were also extremely aggressive in correcting bad behavior. The officer, however poorly he was responding, should never have been shouted at in public by an NCO irrespective of the circumstances. I have never been one to seek out issues with very senior NCOs. Except in a life or death situation including combat, no officer should be dressed down in public by an NCO. This does not mean that a report on the yng officers poor form couldn't be forwarded to his immediate commander (utilizing proper channels). This is a needed corrective and not punative.
3) "potty mouth" should have been detained by MPs and immediately escorted from the base WITH his mother who raised him so well.
1) If the officer was a 2/LT or even some 1/LTs he is realtively close in age to "potty mouth and may require a bit more seasoning to become proficient in the application of discipline.
2) I served with the 1st RGR BN at HAAF, GA. We were also extremely aggressive in correcting bad behavior. The officer, however poorly he was responding, should never have been shouted at in public by an NCO irrespective of the circumstances. I have never been one to seek out issues with very senior NCOs. Except in a life or death situation including combat, no officer should be dressed down in public by an NCO. This does not mean that a report on the yng officers poor form couldn't be forwarded to his immediate commander (utilizing proper channels). This is a needed corrective and not punative.
3) "potty mouth" should have been detained by MPs and immediately escorted from the base WITH his mother who raised him so well.
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Tending to disbelieve. Unless the Corps has completely disintegrated, which I do not think has happened, I find it hard to believe that a young enlisted Marine would turn and respond in that manner "on-base". Off base, well, that may be a different story...
On Base, 99% of the men that you would meet (that are not bearded up), who are under 50, are going to be current service members. And...85% of that 99% are going to outrank you, and therefore cause you problems for having a bad attitude...
Marines, in my experience, especially on a Marine Base, tend to be the most respectful folks around.
My two cents. Semper Fi
On Base, 99% of the men that you would meet (that are not bearded up), who are under 50, are going to be current service members. And...85% of that 99% are going to outrank you, and therefore cause you problems for having a bad attitude...
Marines, in my experience, especially on a Marine Base, tend to be the most respectful folks around.
My two cents. Semper Fi
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MAJ Mark Wilson
Well, he was with his mom. We had a young soldier that apparently ran the show in our company. When we called his mom about some pending UCMJ she told us what he had been telling her, that he pretty much ran the company. She was rather shocked when we told here he was just a PFC and apparently couldn't even be in charge of himself. It was hilarious when we handed him the phone.
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SA Michael Moore
I have been concerned a lot about what's going on with "military" disciplinary programs "modeled" after various services and wearing uniforms and insignia easily mistaken for the real thing. I hate to see criminals and delinquent youth in uniforms to help them reform. The services are not reform schools.
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SMSgt Carl Cripe
CW3 Harvey K. - I was a PI with a Top Secret Clearance and later a Chief of Maintenace (E-8) in the Texas Air National Guard. I am well aware of the bush’s not showing up for his UTA’s for a long period of time. During his lack of respect for the oath we all take, He was ordered to return and finish or upgrade his flying status. He did not. As a result bush was grounded. He was requested many times to RTB to get his yearly physical. He did not. Eventually he saw the light and completed his UTA’s and got out of the guard to attend college as authorized at that time. As a Photo Interpreter, I know that we had fly zones in northern Iraq as well in the South that had contained Saddam. As you recall, we flew sorties to delete his cleverly hidden Scuds. Bottom line, bush’s VP wanted the oil. As the former CEO for Halliburton, he moved his company to Dubi where the company or the subsidiary exits today. Google it. If you need a job to make some money and have a craft the company needs you will be hired. By the way, I sat Alert (Air Defense) with Bush’s boss had many quite conversations during our 48 hour alert posture.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
They are both wrong.
We can discuss the degrees of wrong but the officer made the fatal error of not having the sense to address this in a different manner. This officer should receive mentoring/counseling on how to conduct himself and react when faced with unjustified anger, other than having a respect the rank attitude. I'm sure this will not be the only time it will happen in his career. The enlisted Marine should and will likely receive corrective counseling for his actions, plus details that will reinforce it.
They are both wrong.
We can discuss the degrees of wrong but the officer made the fatal error of not having the sense to address this in a different manner. This officer should receive mentoring/counseling on how to conduct himself and react when faced with unjustified anger, other than having a respect the rank attitude. I'm sure this will not be the only time it will happen in his career. The enlisted Marine should and will likely receive corrective counseling for his actions, plus details that will reinforce it.
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Cpl Chris Gilbert
SFC Robert Bagnall - If the 2LT was in civvies, how was the Marine wrong? 2LTs look like boots compared to most young enlisted Marines. It's highly probable he couldn't determine rank of the boot LT.
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MAJ Mark Wilson
MAJ Donald Zlotnik - I agree, but the SGM had the sense to move it outside. And I'm guessing the LT might have used a choice word or two. The SGM fixed the situation as quickly as possible. Now in today's world I could see the grabbing the kid by the collar become an issue, but I'm all for it.
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SFC Charles McVey Sr.
MAJ Mark Wilson - First let me clarify one point, I enlisted in the Army in 1960 I was issued one pair of Black Boots and one pair of brown boots that I was immediately ordered to dye black. That being said as I progressed up in Rank I learned several things unless you know exactly what you are about to do is within the framework of the Regulations and the UCMJ, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. I was a MP and I have had many occasions to confront soldiers, sailors, Marines and Airman who had misplaced their Military Courtesy taught to them in basic, and likewise a few Junior Officer who forgot what they were also taught in their Officer Basic Course. I as a MP when in Uniform have had to employ a degree of patience and ask them to carry the discussion outside and out of ear shot of children and/or lady's who were present. On more than one occasion I have had to physically escort the offenders outside, and instruct them in the proper manner of handling the issue they were involved in. And Major Wilson when I had to physically escort them I did so in a very forceful manner and I was not polite or PC.
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Never saw anything go this far. If it was a uniform cover he must have had a real brainfart... Cant see a Young Marine Bowing up at a Sgt Major ... thats like slapping a bear while you are wearing bacon underwear.
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Cpl Ryan Berry
LMAO, slapping a bear while wearing bacon underwear, outstanding!!! Never heard that one lol! And yes I totally agree, very strange and hard to comprehend.
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Cpl Ryan Berry
Maj John Bell - I totally agree sir, and at the same time I agree also with Sgt Frank Rinchich and see his point. My short time in Marine infantry I encountered officer's that we would have jumped on hand grenades for, and those that we immediately thought "he is going to get a lot of Marines hurt or killed". Most were the caliber of the first kind, outstanding leaders and true warriors. Mustangs were always a plus and seemed to make a huge difference. Then you had that one, the one fresh out of college and Quantico, who was the typical "I'm going to win this war and we will be the best! NO EXCEPTIONS! MY platoon and I do not need your opinion", those officer's to say politely were very concerning. Even then, Marines were required to show proper respect and obey authority. After all, it is the rank, not the person. I feel that was the point maybe my fellow NCO Sgt Frank Rinchich was trying to make. Semper FI
BearKat
03 Echo 2/5
BearKat
03 Echo 2/5
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Cpl Ryan Berry
SCPO Carl Wayne Boss - bowing up is basically like showing aggression that you are not going to back down. I heard this before I ever went into the Corps so I doubt it is USMC.
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Regardless of branch, if the Senior Enlisted has a premonition about you, odds are it won't be good. It's probably going to involve a massive sudden and unexpected career change.
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LTC Joseph Gross
SGT Randall Smith - While the CSM was possibly wrong, I hope the CPT got an ass chewing from some LTC for his behavior!
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Maj Chris Clark
SGT Randall Smith - in all fairness the SgtMaj should have told the Sgt the whole story....i.e. The Col. wanted to see the Captain. Probably would have ended better. I had a First Sergeant that try to call me to his office and it was very simular. I told the SSgt to remind him where my office was. I was well after Vietnam, but if the 1stSgt had his way, that is where I would have ended up.
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SGT Randall Smith
LTC Joseph Gross - Col. the Captain was wrong. He had borrowed money from me and at payday said he could not pay me back. Said he would pay me half of what he owed and the rest the next month. He also ask if I knew what usury was. He had ask for $200.00 and owed me $250.00. Said that was too much, would only pay $10.00 extra. I had to borrow some of that money to lend him and had to pay it that day. Too, he signed a note in front of a witness that he owed me $250.00. I did not want to lend him any money because I knew he spent it at the officers club. Plus, I worked under him and it was not really a request. The LTC explained to the Capt that officers do not borrow money from enlisted. He could be kicked out of the service for it. I had my money that afternoon. I also had a short but educational discussion with the CSM. He could chew ass as well as any one I ever met.
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LTC John Wilson
There was no good point to borrowing money from an enlisted man and it was bad taste on the part of the officer. The fact that he couldn't pay it back made it worse. The protocols are endless and sometimes frivolous, but they have the intent to do good for the Good of the Service.
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No branch wears a cover indoors unless they are under arms or are loaded down and cant remove the cover. Generally someone will help you out if arms full. Secondly an officer is an officer regardless of rank and should be respected. The Sergeant Major was correct to intervene as public, even on base is no place for a pissing contest. The Jr. Marine should receive some correctional training and unfortunately while correct the Junior office should be trained as well. I think the new kinder gentler military needs to go. There was a day Officers and NCOs received respect...not because of training but because it was earned.
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SGT James Colwell
Sgt Daniel Morrison - When did that change in the Army? We would get a boot up our 4th point of contact if we wore headgear inside unless under arms.
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Cpl Ryan Berry
1SG F Morales - USMC Drill Instructors do also, as they are also considered on duty at any time they are in uniform.
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SGT James Hunsinger
SPC Kevin Young - When were you in the Army? During my career I served with many airborne folks that were not permitted to wear their cover indoors. Each Tactical M.I. Battalion I served in had a LRSD company of airborne infantry. They never wore their berets indoors.
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MSgt Devon Saunders
Sgt Daniel Morrison..What Air Force are you referring to that wears hats indoors!!?? Certainly not MY Air Force. I promise you, we DO have the decency to remove our cover((hats)) indoors!!
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In addition to my first post after reading some of the responses. ... regardless of who pointed out his uniform "malfunction " , even if it were the friggen cashier, he should have complied/responded WITH respect. An officer should never have to "go find" an NCO to make an on the spot correction. That's like saying an NCO should find a SPC to correct a PFC. I think some have forgotten that no matter how much we may dislike it, an officer on his first day commissioned still out ranks an NCO with 10-15 years. But regardless of that, this soldier was WAY out of line.
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SGT James Colwell
SGT (Join to see) - ANY Officer outranks every enlisted SM. The seniority of the enlisted rank dictates an increased degree of respect, however, if a 2LT orders a SGM to do something, the SGM is required by law to obey, by UCMJ, if it is a lawful order. The SGM, may pull the officer to the side and in private discuss the order given. ANY senior NCO who blatantly ignores an order or publicly dresses down an officer is acting in a way that is detrimental to good order and discipline.
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Sgt Matt Dean
Rank doesn't matter if you need to be corrected! You do it tactfully but always respect the tradition. A private can correct a officer if he is messed up as long as he's not a smart ass about it! Remeber, a 2nd Lt is basically a private and still learning. Now if a sgtmaj tells you to fix yourself you better poa and fix yourself. That's earned respect! TgT junior marine needs to get a little bit of hazing, or is that to harsh now dAys!
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Sgt Matt Dean
A good cpl wouldn't let a officer correct a junior marine, he should be all over it, however if it is over looked, officer OR any marine can correct another marine if he is not in standards! I like the gentleman who said it best! It's all about attitude, no reason to bull dog until you get a boot private with a attitude
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MAJ Mark Wilson
Yes, but... A junior officer lacks experience. I don't care how much schooling you have had experience counts. I tended to keep my mouth shut as a young officer on matters outside of my platoon or influence. You can learn a lot by being quiet and making a lot of "Note to Self"s when you see peers, superiors, and subordinates make mistakes. I avoided a lot of mistakes and embarrassment by learning from my NCOs and soldiers. If you think about it, an officer is in a Company or below for maybe one to three years before more advanced schooling. Some of the NCOs and Soldiers can have 20+ years there.
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The entire scenario described makes me ill...and I'll respectfully explain why.
The JO had three choices...do nothing, approach the enlisted man himself, or find the nearest NCO in range, and quietly ask them to square that Marine away. The first, shouldn't be an acceptable choice for any leader...I think he could've handled the second much, much better...and the third really depends on far too many factors to make a judgement based on the information known.
Assuming he had to handle it directly, I would've approached him from an oblique angle...started a conversation, got introduced to the mother, found out what unit he was with (made some sincere compliment to that platoon and the NCO leadership), then casually, coolly, and quietly, reminded him he still had his cover on.
You've given him a chance to correct himself without undue embarrassment, but also taken away any sense he may have of being "anonymous"...no threats, just options.
It's a shame the NCO had to spot correct them both-costly learning opportunity for all involved.
The JO had three choices...do nothing, approach the enlisted man himself, or find the nearest NCO in range, and quietly ask them to square that Marine away. The first, shouldn't be an acceptable choice for any leader...I think he could've handled the second much, much better...and the third really depends on far too many factors to make a judgement based on the information known.
Assuming he had to handle it directly, I would've approached him from an oblique angle...started a conversation, got introduced to the mother, found out what unit he was with (made some sincere compliment to that platoon and the NCO leadership), then casually, coolly, and quietly, reminded him he still had his cover on.
You've given him a chance to correct himself without undue embarrassment, but also taken away any sense he may have of being "anonymous"...no threats, just options.
It's a shame the NCO had to spot correct them both-costly learning opportunity for all involved.
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Maj Chris Clark
I would have pulled him aside, corrected him and moved on. That in my experience would have ended the confrontation before it started. I was eating at a restaurant while on I&I duty when a Pvt and his patents and presumed girlfriend came in the restaurant in utilities. I waited until he was alone, corrected him and ordered him to report to his 1stSgt the next morning. I got a call from the 1stSgt laughing saying the Marine came into his reported his discrepancy and thought he was going to get NJP. No issues, no disrespect and no confrontation.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Over the last couple of weeks, this post seems to have grown into a very important discussion of not only the proper ways to lead...but leadership itself. With "down votes" from some very experienced, very respected RP members, I've been struggling with the question of whether or not my initial suggestions had merit-Frankly, I think even this "Old Salt" could learn a thing or two still. What strikes me as the most important error in my judgement, is that without the authority and respect afforded to rank at any level, our entire system of discipline fails. This only harms, not helps, the junior enlisted, who should see their officers as consistent representatives of the Core Values and Regulations...their NCOs as the subject matter experts and advisers to the chain of command. Perhaps being a product of different times has it's effect, even on officers such as myself who think they are not "New Navy"...but may indeed need the occasional "course correction". My compliments to all who provided comment-I've learned a thing or two.
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MAJ (Join to see)
GySgt John Olson - "a more recognized authority"? I know what you are saying, but if young marines do not recognize junior officers, you have a problem. The officer should have tried the more oblique approach, suggested above. Dumb as S should not have gotten confrontational, he has a real challenge if he does not learn fast. Extra duty, for sure.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I know what you are saying. I tried to never jump my NCOs authority, but immediate action always best. After platoon and company tour, I was stuck for six months training Admin specialists who did not have the training or experience to deal with off the block untrained minority skaters. Several Saturdays training on counselling statements, UCMJ authority, and expeditious discharge packets cured the challenge. A come to Jesus meeting with the Personnel Services Company commander, all section officers (enlisted. records, officer records, etc) and the clerks laid down the law. The assigned mess section was outstanding, but the supply sergeant was a lost cause, my predecessor a passed over 2LT had an over $2 Mil Report of survey. He was clueless on what a shortage list was, or how to inventory equipment vans. I was never so happy to get to an Infantry Training Company and 8 professional top notch Drill Segeants. Most people KNOW you can't beat SF NCOs. My company had four master's degrees and this was before SF CWOs!
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Momma needs to do some extra duty as well for making her "puss in boots" so soft and disrespectful.
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Cpl Elbert Brimmage
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mom doesn't get it extreme discipline and stress is necessary to prepare all Marines for the stress of battle. What is momma going to do ask the enemy's bullets not to touch her boyfriend? Not I've she said boy not man. Her lines the underlined problem. Marines are the first to go into action. We don't need a candidate freaking out on the battlefield thus being a danger to his comrades via friendly fire or giving the position of his,rifle squad away to the enemy thus getting us allove killed.
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Cpl Elbert Brimmage
Samara Wilson - Guys like that would redeem their blanket party that night by the entire barracks. Cpl Brimmage USMX
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Cpl Ryan Berry
Samara Wilson - I have to give my mother a lot of credit for time spent Honorably in my beloved USMC. She is a Saint and one of the sweetest women you will ever meet, but she is tough and in any time I might have "questioned" my decision of serving in the military, I would reflect on how important it was to her and my father and my family. Both parents kept a picture of me in dress blues that had a bumper sticker framed next to it saying "proud parent of U.S. Marine".
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
First of all, I will apologize for all of the rest of the people who questioned your integrity on this issue. It is a shame. Anyway, I worked on a Marine Corps base when I was stationed in Hawaii and I have witnessed some pretty crazy stuff regarding dependents inside the MCX and Commissary. The young Marine is going to be in quite some trouble. The young officer will be spoken to regarding him arguing with a private in public and the SNCO will be patted on his back for doing the right thing.
That all being said, had that young Marine just removed his cover, there wouldn't of been any issue. The young Officer certainly shouldn't of engaged in an argument with a enlisted Marine in public, but this could be used as a teaching tool for all involved.
First of all, I will apologize for all of the rest of the people who questioned your integrity on this issue. It is a shame. Anyway, I worked on a Marine Corps base when I was stationed in Hawaii and I have witnessed some pretty crazy stuff regarding dependents inside the MCX and Commissary. The young Marine is going to be in quite some trouble. The young officer will be spoken to regarding him arguing with a private in public and the SNCO will be patted on his back for doing the right thing.
That all being said, had that young Marine just removed his cover, there wouldn't of been any issue. The young Officer certainly shouldn't of engaged in an argument with a enlisted Marine in public, but this could be used as a teaching tool for all involved.
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PFC George Austin Chase III
Teaching tool??..I'm..we are talking about the Marines correct??..at that point in his probably shortened military career he should have just removed the cover..plain and simple!..nothing to be taught!..you Semper FI
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LCpl Scott Carter
Am I missing something, "The young Officer!?!?!" A S/Maj. is a Senior Enlisted member of the Marine Corps. He is not an Officer, although he commands the same respect due to his high rank. As far as who is at fault, the young Marine, soon to be civilian was absolutely wrong. When a S/Maj tell you to take your cover off, no matter how he tells you, you take your cover off with no resistance or disrespect. You may not like it, but the direction and how it is conveyed is not up for debate. If this S/Maj was challenged under war or combat conditions, it would have been a lot worse. A note to the young Marine: You know you aren't in Kansas anymore, you absolutely know better than to challenge a senior ranking NCO.....PERIOD!!! Semper Fi!!!
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Cpl Chris Gilbert
LCpl Charlie Mooney - You know what can be done? Bring all the troops home and get out of these bullshit wars for oil. That way, the troops will be protected and they can cut their own grass.
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PO2 Skip Kirkwood
PFC George Austin Chase III - Did you miss? YOUTH Marine? Teen aged kid - no point in his career.
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