Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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As I live and breath. Haha!! When I was a young Hospitalman Apprentice I was coming out of the PX in Camp Del Mar on Pendleton, with my collared button down shirt untucked. A senior non-com who was driving by slammed on his brakes, jumped out of the car and proceeded to "correct" me. Upon realizing that I was Navy hospital corpsman who did not know any better, the sergeant major "gave" me a ride back to my barracks and waited until I had come out in the proper civilian attire. My friends never let me live it down. Telling someone off who outranks me never, ever crossed my mind. This kid is dumb...
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First of all. The Young Marine was totally wrong. He needs to go back and read his promotion warrant" "And this appointee is to observe and follow such orders and directions as may be given from time to time by superior acting in according the rules and article governing the discipline of the Armed Forces of the United States of America.
What this dumbass did try to show out in front of Mom . The SgtMaj did exactly what he was suppose to do.
What this dumbass did try to show out in front of Mom . The SgtMaj did exactly what he was suppose to do.
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Several things I want to bring up here- first point, if my son EVER disrespected anyone by using that type of language in public- no worries about extra duties- beware of Mom! 2. Mom should've just kept quiet IMO her son was wrong- period. 3 I understand why the Officer got heated, but he should've risen above it- taken it outside. He is an Officer, set the example. 4 OOHRAH SGTMAJ!!
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SEMPER FI, SGTMAJ!.... You did the right thing, and the "Marine" in question needs Office Hours..
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this is an odd story for sure. I second that all Marine's know we do not wear a cover indoors unless we are under arms. We surely wouldn't desecrate our uniforms or disrespect a brother in a public place. this being an army soldier on a Marine Base and getting mouthy, yeah I can believe that. or any other branch of service even. A Marine officer, not quick to back down especially if someone says who the f** are you.... they'll be like "let me introduce myself. I'm captain stf by" ... I do 100% believe a Sgt Major witnessing any Marine or service member making an ass of themselves and behaving in a fashion conduct unbecoming... would remove the 2 of them from that situation.. the mother should stay the hell out of affairs. Unless of course she wants to join our ranks... then she can stf by too.
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Cpl Ryan Berry
that would be the shit tho....think about it, your thrashing a boot Marine and his Mommy!!! Hell I just came up with a badass phrase for my brother who is a DI-"I WILL HAVE YOU AND YOUR MOTHER ON THE QUARTER DECK THRASHING TILL I SAY SO! ONE MORE AND YOUR MAMMA IS GOING INTO THE INDUSTRIAL DRYER"!!! LMAO, ROFL! I apologize, it's that sick ol 03 sense of humor that wont go away, lol. Semper FI
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Enlisted Marine held accountable, Officer mentored and the SgtMajor did his job ... SgtMajor most likely handled the situation with the Marine's SNCOIC and/or 1stSgt.
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1. He shouldn't have been wearing his cover indoors, unless he was under arns.
2. When told to remove his cover, he should have just removed it .. KNOWING he was in the wrong for wearing it indoors.
3. Snapping back "who the f*ck are you?" did nothing but make it worse for him.
4. The Junior officer was wrong for not controlling the situation better. His reaction should have been to identify himself, whip out his ID, then demand the Marine's ID, unitn OIC, and Company Commander's name on the spot.
5. If the Marine refused any of these directives, the LT's next call should have been to PMO with the Marine still there.
2. When told to remove his cover, he should have just removed it .. KNOWING he was in the wrong for wearing it indoors.
3. Snapping back "who the f*ck are you?" did nothing but make it worse for him.
4. The Junior officer was wrong for not controlling the situation better. His reaction should have been to identify himself, whip out his ID, then demand the Marine's ID, unitn OIC, and Company Commander's name on the spot.
5. If the Marine refused any of these directives, the LT's next call should have been to PMO with the Marine still there.
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PO3 B Al Eisen
When I was an E3 in the Navy, I was walking back to my car carrying a case of beer. An Lt was walking in the opposite direction about to pass me. I was putting my case down to salute him. He said not to. That the safety of my beer was more important. Months later, I had a chance to help out a different Lt with a stalled car. Instead of just riding past, I thought about that beer and stopped. A spark wire had come loose. Easily fixed, but I wouldn't have stopped, except for the courtesy of the first officer. If I was an officer and a noobie had his cover on indoors, I would nicely remind him/her about honor and tradition politely. If they acted poorly, then, I would pull the ID routine.
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Sgt Matt Dean
Never abuse authority but respectfully remind the warrior what they represent and to be proud of that! Let them know they earned it! Build them up so they respect you and want to do the right thing instead of blasting them and just pissing them off! Sometimes it is a honest mistake for a new guy/girl! On the other hand, when a attitude comes remind them again who they represent and provide rank! Let them know in a nice way way they are wrong but it's not a big deal, just explain why we do thAt! If it escrlates then it's time to pull rank and ask for there unit commander or plt sgt. It's all about attitude and respect
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As a 17 year military officer this is a good example of when a junior officer should have just STFU. You are better off finding an NCO and having them handle it. What happens otherwise is the young EM doesn't look like a jackass, the officer does and has lost all composure/bearing/authority if he is going toe-to-toe with junior enlisted. Sounds like someone's company commander needs to do a little mentoring.
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The young Marine was completely out of line for wearing his cover inside and disrespecting both the officer and his mother.
The officer was wrong for escalating the situation into a shouting match.
The sergeant major was correct in quelling the situation, even though he used his sergeant major voice. He was correct in escorting the young Marine out of the area to have a come to Jesus with him.
Mommy needs to learn that negative actions in the Marine Corps often times have swift consequences, and she no longer controls all aspects of his life.
The officer was wrong for escalating the situation into a shouting match.
The sergeant major was correct in quelling the situation, even though he used his sergeant major voice. He was correct in escorting the young Marine out of the area to have a come to Jesus with him.
Mommy needs to learn that negative actions in the Marine Corps often times have swift consequences, and she no longer controls all aspects of his life.
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
Cpl; If you try to tell some Mothers that they no longer have control of ALL ASPECTS of their son's lives... You're the one that may have a fight on your hands!
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CPT Keith Steinhurst
Senior Chief, the lad will be trained and before retreat, everyone in his Command will know his name and where he lives - he will have a significant emotional event starting with his Company Gunny and ending with the senior PFC that bunks with him, in the end, he will either get it or he won't, but he will be stronger . . .
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Cpl William Finch
It's like our Heavy DI told us in Recruit Training, "you can leave here smart or you can leave here strong, doesn't matter to me..."
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RP Members what I'm looking for here is Leadership feedback! How should the Junior Officer in today's military handle a situation like this with a lower enlisted soldier, how should other's arounf them react, and how should a Command Sergeant Major react with a lower enlisted soldier and a junior officer in a public environment on an installation? Sorry that some individuals feel this is BS or think it is made up - this actually took place. I would have loved to been on active duty and been right there when it happened. There are a number of things I would have done if I was witness to such behavior. How about some real feedback and comments now?
SGT (Join to see) TSgt Hunter Logan COL Charles Williams LTC Stephen C. LTC Stephen F. CW4 (Join to see) CW3 (Join to see) SGM (Join to see) SSG Ryan Rodney CPT (Join to see) SSgt (Join to see) CW3 Kevin Storm CMSgt Mark Schubert PO2 Mark Saffell LTC John Shaw TSgt (Join to see) SFC Mark Merino CH (MAJ) William Beaver WO1 (Join to see) Maj Matt Hylton
SGT (Join to see) TSgt Hunter Logan COL Charles Williams LTC Stephen C. LTC Stephen F. CW4 (Join to see) CW3 (Join to see) SGM (Join to see) SSG Ryan Rodney CPT (Join to see) SSgt (Join to see) CW3 Kevin Storm CMSgt Mark Schubert PO2 Mark Saffell LTC John Shaw TSgt (Join to see) SFC Mark Merino CH (MAJ) William Beaver WO1 (Join to see) Maj Matt Hylton
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SGT (Join to see)
There are a few things that bother me here. First the junior enlisted should have known better than to wear his cover indoors. Second he should have without a doubt listened when he was corrected officer or not if you are jacked up and someone makes an on the spot correction fix it and thank them regardless of rank involved. Third as many have said before allowing to escalate was the officers mistake and could have been handled a lot better. Fourth the SGM made a quick reaction choice and by what I can tell the right one may have been better ways to proceed but the old effective ways work well. Finally knowing that it was in a public place the should have been a CPl or SGT in the vicinity to step in before it got to the point where a Senior NCO had to get his hands dirty. As a general question why if out of uniform would you need to show your ID first integrity is one of the values that the military is based on (IMHO) if somebody tells you hey I'm a (fill in with appropriate rank) they should be beloved until they give you reason not to.
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Sgt Matt Dean
Sir, COL, all due respect I was taught to always be professional because you never know who you are dealing with! As a Nco I would have tried to intercept and apologize to the officer and politely asked the marine, hoping he noticed my sgt rank, that wearing his cover indoors was inappropriate! If he did get disrespectful I would still try to defuse the situation by asking why is there I. We'd to get upset. If then happens to escalate I would calmly look for. Senior enlisted to help defuse the situation and in the meantime apologize to the officer and let him know we are taught better! If he got smart with the officer, as a Lt I would ID myself, assuming he should know do to rank structure and politely ask if he wouldn't mind removing his cover. Once he got loud I would look for other senior marines to help calm the junior get his unit and platoon. Commander and take it from there. Disrespecting seniors and officers is a punishable offense and would hope some type of punishment would take place to teach the marine how we are supposed to respect not only rank but the uniform! Sir, I'm sorry your wife had to witness immature behavior from what's expected to be elite warriors , aka marines! We should live our title and where it with pride! I apologize for the long response but that's how I feel! I respect how you would have handled this sir along with many marines on here! I hope some marines will read this and think twice about our title and what we stand for! Semper fi sir
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Sgt Matt Dean
Cpl Cary cartter, well said! That shows great leadership and professionalism! I respect that 100% and you seem to have great leadership qualities from your statement. Now a few are getting on sgt major for. Ring a little rough but from the corps I was in and love, a sgt maj has earned every right to act as a hard charger, put fear in young devils and dominate and control the situation! I respect his actions and he has earned that right! If the marine felt disrespected in front of his mother, he should have acted like a marine instead of a turd! You don't mess with sgt majors corps! Period! Rah
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CPT Karen Nichols McAbee
exactly what I was thinking SSG(P) Juarez, otherwise he would have received more than enough attention already
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1SG (Join to see)
SSgt Donnavon Smith - ahhhhhh!!!!
You just had to go there didn't you? I've been nothing but complementary to the Corps, here and elsewhere. Your jibes have no power here!
I will fix what is ate up when I see it, regardless of branch of service.
You just had to go there didn't you? I've been nothing but complementary to the Corps, here and elsewhere. Your jibes have no power here!
I will fix what is ate up when I see it, regardless of branch of service.
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Sgt Matt Dean
No need to get in a branch war! We all serve a great country and I respect all military! We all have standards but I do know as for the corps you NEVER where your cover inside and never disrespect rank. That junior needs to be checked quick! Even if his mom was there, then she can understand what the corps is about! Oorah sgtmaj for respecting and keeping the traditions alive and real. I pray the corps is not getting soft
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Absolutely! When an officer, junior grade or not, approaches you and instructs you to remove your cover while indoors, YOU REMOVE YOUR COVER!!!!! The PVT was stupid enough to confront the officer and I am glad the Sergeant Major took matters into his own hands! I would have done the same.
HMC C. Schmidt
HMC C. Schmidt
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LTJG (Join to see)
I agree 100%.
I can't speak for other branches, but I can speak for Sailors. No one commands more respect from a new Sailor than the Chief. When Chief says something, it's done without hesitation. To this day, my Chief could yell "drop" and I'd be doing push ups before he could take a breath. It's all about respect.
I can't speak for other branches, but I can speak for Sailors. No one commands more respect from a new Sailor than the Chief. When Chief says something, it's done without hesitation. To this day, my Chief could yell "drop" and I'd be doing push ups before he could take a breath. It's all about respect.
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The young Marine was in the wrong period. No enlisted Marine green around the ears EVER engages a superior rank. Period. The Marine Corps isn't about playing games like other branches. If you don't get it, you're in the wrong branch. My Marine Corps was straight up "Full Metal Jacket" and should remain that way. It's called "discipline" and "respect" for the uniform, for the Corps and for Country.
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In my day it never would have gotten that far....another enlisted with several supporters would have squared you away, and the very last thing you would want to do is swear at an officer....oh, and your mom / family would have been counseled....... want to discus it further, let me know
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You don't wear a cover in a building. It's one of the rules you're taught in basic training or anyway it was in my company. Even before that my parents taught me it was a sign of disrespect to wear a hat in a building so it was just reinforcement in the service. You'd think the young marine would have known that like he knew not to wear his shirttail outside his pants. Above and beyond that you don't curse in front of a woman, especially not your mother and you sure as hell don't say F*** in front of her and it doesn't even matter if she uses the word herself. If it weren't handled in the manner that it was I'd have genuine concern over the state of our military.
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Hooraaahhhh Marine Corps!!
One thing I have always loved about the Corps....the senior enlisted have kept it the same for over 200 yrs. Poor approach by the JO. He should have bit his tongue....re-addressed the young snot nosed buck and pulled his ID card.
No peepee contest should have occurred. Way to go Sgt Major for diffusing the situation...and I can tell you that by now...that little E1 now nows what being a Marine is all about...since he slept thru boot camp.
CDR, USN, Ret.....FMF
One thing I have always loved about the Corps....the senior enlisted have kept it the same for over 200 yrs. Poor approach by the JO. He should have bit his tongue....re-addressed the young snot nosed buck and pulled his ID card.
No peepee contest should have occurred. Way to go Sgt Major for diffusing the situation...and I can tell you that by now...that little E1 now nows what being a Marine is all about...since he slept thru boot camp.
CDR, USN, Ret.....FMF
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Embarrassing a 'cub' in front of the mama is almost as painful as embarrassing the Corp...
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First thing that comes to my mind, did the young officer identify himself? Although it shouldn't matter, when correcting another marine, one should always start with identifying them self. this could have saved the embarrassment of both individuals having their asses handed to them by the csm..... Just a thought..
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Cpl Kenny Woods
Well gunny... This is why it's never safe to ASSume...Apparently the young enlisted and the young officer learned that lesson together...
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Cpl Cary Cartter
If a civilian can tell the difference in ranks from more than a few steps away, then both parties IN the incident are very much aware of the ranks involved. That is, my ASSUMPTION here is that both parties were, in fact, in uniform and displayed their rank appropriately.
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