How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?

I would have to take a moment to calm myself.......... Then its time for some corrective training or memory builders....... flutter kicks, front back go, mule kicks. I wouldn't go over board, but when I'm done that soldier would have a light coat of sweat on him!

He'd be doing about 50 push ups with me sitting on his back!

Crush it immediately in public. Then UCMJ. CO grade ART 15. If it persists, you can always escalate to FG or chapter

Smack the Shit right out of him!

I would like to think that a disciplinary measure akin to getting the spit slapped out of your mouth like my mother used to do 8f I got smart with her......which was not often at all. But I can remember that smack to this day and that smack had its desired effect....I listened and did as I was told for the greater good of the household.

Being in the National Guard, I would have no issue saying "Go to supply and get MOPP gear" and smoke the crap out of them, or as my old squad leader would say, "If you don't want to be here, there's the door." I know the last one is argumentative as a leader, telling a soldier to just leave, but honestly we don't need that type of insubordination in our military. Just my two cents though.

Install more fear & smoke his ass!

Is he in Formation or a dark Hallway??? Or am I demonstrating a Chokehold or a Throatpunch...??? laffs MilitantCrip

Had a Seaman up for 3rd class tell me as a 2nd Class that he was going to sleep and not turn to, asked if he understood that he was being given a lawful order by a senior PO, he said yes and turned over to go to sleep. I wrote him up and we got underway the next day, I did the work he was suppose to do . Two days later he was called before the Chief and told he had Captains Mast that afternoon for disobeying a lawful order. He was reduced in Rank, lost 3 months pay and was on shipboard confinement for 3months. No one in my Division ever again disobeyed an order from any PO after that. This was in 1974. He was upset that I wrote him up but I explained that it was my responsiblilty to have our equipment up and ready to be underway and I could be given a mast for not being sure that we could get underway and I was not going to lose my hard earned rank because he wanted to sleep after noon chow.

Pull his tongue out and shuv it up his ass. Full blown disrespect to you higher command should be dealt with straight forward discipline (corporal punishment).

I would try to find out what's going on and it's just flat out being defiant then an example would be make of what not to do. Art 15 extra duty and money taken sho7ld correct it, if not then a chapter with PFC Snuff going home on a bus.

I would put him in the prone position for 50 push ups. Upon completion he would stand facing the formation and explain why he thinks he is superior to each of his fellow soldiers why he was so special and shouldn't share in the assigned duties. They would help to adjust his attitude over time.

AIRBORNE

I don't understand the new soldiers today and how they think they have the balls to act like that. I remember in 1966 aboard the aircraft carrier Bonnie Dick and being a E3 in radar with a really racist E5 from South Carolina making me scrub the inside of the stainless steel toilets by hand every day. I would have never thought of not doing what he ordered even though I could not stand him. I knew one day I would be above him in rank and would show him compassion inspite of his ways.

In the good old days it would be wall to wall counseling Today military its drop and give me 50 and write him up and assign him extra duty If he keep refusing,, then an Article 15 will solve the private problem. Nobody like to lose money and being confined to the quarters doing extra duty

Just because the military is 'kinder and gentler' these days, it does not mean that subordinates can disobey a lawful order. As a supervisor, you should first explain that E2, as a serviceman, he must obey a lawful order. And if he does not, there is a consequence. Period. You must write him up if he does not take you seriously. If you are thinking that he is a good kid, who was having a bad day or needing mentor, then get to know him better and guide him. But clear discipline must be the first action. If you do not handle this disobedience right away, your subordinates, even the good ones, will never take you seriously.

First, make certain you understand the troop's comment by saying:
"I'm sorry, I think I misheard you, because telling me to 'shove it' will involve you getting a Letter of Reprimand and a career counseling session with the First Sergeant to see about lining you up with an "early return to parents discharge" and no GI bill for college because there are tons of recruits happy to replace you. So can you repeat yourself please?" Nobody wants to lose their benefits.

That should raise a red flag; it could be nothing just a bad day or there could be a underlying issue. You have to find out who, what, where and why that response was given. There could be a cause/effect. Yes, his insubordinate action should be dealt with and appropriate corrective action is needed (that goes without saying) but at the same time counseling maybe and probably is needed.

That is blatantly disobeying an order given by a higher ranking individual and they are disobeying the 2nd General Order, "I will obey my special orders and perform all of my duties in a military manner". Time to recalibrate or weed out the troublemakers. It's very simple, if they don't obey your orders for regular duties now, then what will happen when they get in a fire fight and they put their unit at risk by disobeying orders or not being prepared. If you don't want to be a soldier and follow orders? Get out of my Army!! A few Article 15's should help!

Make him carry around a tree because his waste of oxygen will atleast go to some good use.

I had a situation that was very close to this.

As the ranking platoon NCO in the barracks, an e-4, I was in charge of the morning police of our area of responsibility. Maybe trash pickup on one side of the barracks and cleanup of the first floor common room. I'm too damn old to remember the specifics.

One day, a young PFC decided he needed to check his balls, and got belligerent. He took the position that he didn't have to do what I was directing. Being a competent Marine NCO, I barked out "move it" to the other Marines and turned my attention to this PFC.

In the oh so gentle manner proscribed by Marine Corps tradition, I advanced on this young Marine and aggressively reiterated my orders and explained why "resistance is futile".

Needing to pull up his jock strap and prove he deserved to be wearing it, he adamantly resisted any obedience and dug in his heals further. He looked like a puppy trying to show the world that he deserved to be a big dog.

To be painfully honest for a moment, I don't know why I recognized, in that moment, that he needed to resist the harder I pushed. In my old age, I came to realize that it was like being between a rock and a hard place. He just couldn't let himself back up and I was certainly not going to allow him to continue being an example of defying the Platoon NCO without any consequences. However, as NCOs we teach Marines so they make better choices next time. Consequences either put someone down for good, or are a lesson to learn from.

In that moment, I decided to dismiss the Marine. Not like, "You're forgiven. Go relax in your room."

"Ok Marine. You don't have to do that job. You know what, You don't have to do any job. Get the f*** out of my face and out of my sight. You will return right here at 1800 tonight or I will have your ass. Go!" ........ "No you can't do what I asked you earlier. I said get the f*** out of here."

Apparently he had the entire work day, (he didn't report to me other than in the barracks) to consider the wisdom of testing himself. Later that evening he got to enjoy the full policing of the entire area of responsibility without the assistance of the rest of the platoon, all the while displaying proper respect to an NCO. As every barracks Marine could see him out there doing their thing on this own, he even had to field a few questions. I heard him once explain, "I f***ed up."

I don't think that would have been the wisest choice for every Marine. I still think it was the wisest choice at that time with that Marine.

GySGt Pepper, Hits it on the head. I ran in to this when we were in garrison. It seems that soldiers think that being in garrison means 9- 5 duty hours. Which is true most days, but somedays last longer then others. The thing I add to Gunnies actions, was to have PFC Shitbird and his team leader stay after the rest of the soldiers left for extra duty. I would stay with them until the job was done followed by re-eteration on what is expected.

Hesitation cost lives on the front line or while, like me, you're behind enemy lines more often than not, so insubordination is not tolerated nor acceptable. The Airborne is no place for pussies or vigilante insubordinate shitbirds with authority issues. We all have a job to do. Remember after you sign your life away to Uncle Sam, you are Government property. Your life is not your own anymore. Disobeying direct orders is still punishable by death. Your NCO doesn't have to smoke your ass. The military is no place for individuals. It's a well oiled machine built on self sacrifice and teamwork.

That is a no brainer, that is disrespect towards a NCO, what will you do?? charge him and send his merry butt to office hours or court martial. Discipline in the military has to be observed at all times

Half Right Face!

Disrespect to a noncommissioned officer. Too easy. Talk to Private Shitbag and if he continues to be insubordinate, Article 15 his ass.

Give him an article 15 for disrespectingredients an NCO. You can either do a FG, CG or summarized.

This is a great question and a situation very few are trained to handle on the drop of a dime. I had this same issue as a young E5 with little leadership experience. I handled it wrong the first time as I let my shock and anger take over. I blasted the E3 right there. My advice is never let your emotions take over, nor the fact that you can't believe this person would be so insubordinate in front of the troops. Gunny Pepper is spot on. Dismiss the troops and look into "the situation" with a focus on whether this E2/E3 has a future in your division/Navy. To me, my mission/my ship always came first. Either you're a reliable part of the team or you are not, and the ability of each Sailor/Marine to carry out orders without question, is paramount. A second item I learned was that you can not save every Sailor/Marine whom you come across that has a lousy attitude. While I saved a few, I also I canned a few bad ones in my career with very positive results.

I would assign the task to another individual, find some scut work for the problematic E-2 to do while I prepare his LOR. During our counseling session, I would inform them that this isn't burger king and you don't get to have it your way! Every low detail that needs to be done, they get!

Continue delegating task ask individual to stand by after dismissal. Corrective action. Simple. Talk calmly to the boot as you smoje them to come ro a common ground and they will execute as planned . The End

Hate to take an opposing stance but maybe the task was stupid. I never had this problem even as a Corporal. The worst SgtMaj I have ever seen was big on "Busy Work" to the point of painting the curbs of the HQ building with a sandstorm coming in. He told them to press on even though the sand would ruin the paint and any progress made. It is easy to come down and say the only solution is for that E2 to un**** himself but we have all seen poor leaders that rightfully should be questioned.

One of my favorite tactics was to catch those young bucks rolling their eyes ever so slightly and bring them to the front and tell their peers how they feel and why, they usually feel embarrassed and want to return to the pack as quickly as possible. A different perspective can do wonders. Leadership by attrition has a time and place but not to mentor and develop.

Well it would be the last time that The E2 would do that, Because after I have professionally rip a new one in this E2 I would make an example of him for others to see that insubordination and disrespect towards leadership is unacceptable and will not be tolerated and that there is no room for it in our Military.
disciplinary action would follow.
Rehabilitation remedial training and if this does not change the Soldier then after proper documentation separation will follow.

You have to be careful not to compromise yourself in any way. Counsel the individual privately to determine what is going on. His behavior is not "normal." Maybe he is having a really bad day or maybe he is just an insubordinate jerk.

If you learn it is the former, let him know that his behavior will not be accepted and that he must accept some nominal punishment for what he did, but then try to help him through his troubles. Maybe his wife left him, his girlfriend cheated or his dog died. Give him some crappy jobs as punishment.

On the other hand, if after speaking with him privately you find he is just plain insubordinate, escalate the problem to the next higher level of command.

When I was an O-3 we had a similar issue with a new E2. When the issue came to me, I did exactly as I described above, learned he was insubordinate, "could not handle others lling him what to do," and did not belong in the US Navy. I got him an administrative discharge. I was happy, my petty officers (non-coms) were happy, and amazingly he was happy.

Soldiers love their personal time!!! I feel like wasting your time today talking about disrespect. Next time you'll be on that pretty red carpet talking with the Commander about " your money" that you may or may not be getting!

Every NCO, SNCO and officer who would have heard would have been all over his ass the second the words came out of his mouth. I saw only 2 or 3 instances of defiance in the Corps, but when they happened, they were very quickly stamped out. I had a brand new PFC question me once and I had him engage in some 'Incentive Training'. Never had an issue after that.

Article 15, Office Hours. Your are in charge he's the E-2, since when does E-2's tell E-5's what they will not do and shove it. That's disobeying a direct order if he had disobeyed orders in combat many marines would die. Let me tell you a short story while I were on my way to Cambodia., As a Fire Team Leader a marine came to me and told me no way, no how that he were going to fire his weapon in combat, I continued to convince him to do so but he wouldn't budge, and he stated to me as a Fire Team Leader, you all are going to die because I'm not firing that weapon. I reported the incident to the Gunny, the Gunny reported it to the Captain, word came back when the shooting starts, he wanted the whole Fire Team to turn there weapons on the marine and fire.

Being in formation you are either at a position of "attention" or "at ease" or "parade rest". Remind the malcontent that none of those positions includes the the option of talking, unless directed to talk. If that does not work have a private conversation with him/her and remind the idiot of what NCOs are there for. If that doesn't work take the idiot to the company CDR and recommend an article 15/Office Hours. Read him his rights. I had to do this when I was in-charge as a 1LT and a 2LT thought it appropriate to give me some crap in formation. He did that just once.

In my time, that would not have flown. That E-2 would have been on report and looking at an Article 15 of some sort. I fault the change to a "Kinder Gentler" Military starting in basic. The discipline just doesn't seem to be what it was in my time. As an E-2 out of basic, I have a had a lot of work assigned that I didn't like, but did it. When I was aboard ship as an E-3, I found myself filling an NCO billet eventually. That meant that after morning quarters, I would pull the log and hand out assignments. Some things were routine, such as checking Fuel and water. Being Coast Guard, on a shore unit it was a lot of cleaning and painting of the spaces you were responsible for and other routine stuff ( which can be boring ). Aboard ship, I started with the Engines ( Mains and Generators ). That was mostly Just checking the oil and fuel levelas and taking readings everythor whileunder way on Watch ( two 4 hour watches per day ). During the work day ( 0800 - 1600 ) you were doing routine maintainance. I eventually got moved to the BT gang ( Boilers and evaps ). That was pretty much skate duty. That had its moments. Whne you had to open up a Steam Drum and go in and "Punch" tubes. That is dirty, and you are in a very claustrophopic environment. I only had two guys plus myself that were even small enough to get in there. Everybody knew who was going to get the job. Long story short, had the first guy up there working, I went and got my coveralls on and when it came time to relieve him, up I went. Didn't like it as i don't like being in close places, but it cut the amoiunt of time that one man had to stay in there. The other bad one was Fires sides. In that, you remove the cover and crawl into the fire box of the boiler with a steam wand and use to to clean the soot and stuff off the water tubes down there. Now that was really dirty. I would get some grumbling when it came time to do one, but that was it. Nothing serious and it was expected. I didn't like it either. Point is, there are some nasty jobs, and people will grumble, but they have to get done, and do get done. I have never heard anyone say they weren't going to do something.

I read most of these comments which speak of counseling. Counseling? Joined The Corps in 66.
The only counseling we got were the knuckles or boots of our DI's.
When out of MCRD and into the mainstream Corps, many of our E5,E6's and above were from the Korean War and the counseling they would give some insubordinate SOB was a sound ass kicking behind the barracks,
Our CO Gunny was in WWII and Korea and he took absolutely no BS from anyone.
Maybe we need to get back to basics and respond with dipshits who think it has to be their way with some good old fashioned ass thrashing.

Keep your cool first of all. Article 15's still exist after s a very detailed counseling session. If you let him/her get to you and nothing is done, you'll lose some of your other troops. There's also extra duty which could also lead to more discipline but nothing is done over night. Also, try pulling him aside and ask him what's going on. Leaders lead by example and we can't take it personal.

Pull them out of formation and have a private discussion of what is in their head, see if they need medical or psychological help. Send them to get evaluated. Take further action depending on results.