How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?

Well . . . . given I'm a retired CSM, and trying reflect on my time as an E5/E6 when was at Ft. Knox - mostly wearing a Round Brown - I can say, "come unglued and smoke his ass" is the best way to say it. No one ever gives lip to a CSM - that I learned early on - but occasionally a trainee shit would get cocky and think there were all that. Remember, once I got done with that asshole, there's a whole another tribe of Sergeants around . . . . simple as that. Too bad it's not my Army any longer, been retired 19 years. Just a bunch of wannabe's and "why me" babies these days. CSM out.

Am I reading this correctly that an E-2 is in a formation, regardless of type or purpose, and opens his/her mouth against receiving an order for the day? May I ask, what’s happened to military discipline? It seems like the concept has changed since my time. I can remember vividly as a basic trainee (1963) at Fort Leonard Wood, MO. One day after noon chow, my fellow basic trainees and I were in platoon formation. I don’t remember what our platoon sergeant was demonstrating. He was passing up and down the ranks and came to me. He stopped and looked at me and suddenly punched me in the stomach. He continued to stand directly in front of me and his words were “don’t throw up on my boots”. I wasn’t going to give him the satisfaction, so I just stood at attention, wooden faced. The idea of complaining never entered my mind, as I accepted this as part of Army basic training. Years later I was a T.I. at Lackland AFB, TX. When my three year tour was up, one of my fellow T.I.s told me that I never had a problem with my recruits because I kept them petrified for six weeks. I never had a trainee open his mouth in formation, unless I asked a question.

Tell his team leader and him to stand by. Then explain to the the E2 that unless he wants to be a E1 he will do as told. If he has a problem with it he does it then approach his team leader afterwards. If he continues then art 15, or corrective physical PT

What ever I do it’s in private and the penalty would be sever and publicly known.

This is just me. I’m not an nco yet but I am an E4 promotable, in my mos you are responsible for subordinates due to how small our mos is and a lack of actual E5s. I have been put in this exact same situation. “Private does this sound like a fucking suggestion ? If you don’t take your ass downstairs and do XYZ you will have alot more to worry about than a fucking counseling“. this also is dependent on the soldier. No two soldiers are the same. You have to know your soldiers. Some soldiers you have to pull aside and see what’s going on. Yes we signed a contract but we are all human. Sometimes people go through shit and you as a leader may have to adjust fire

I don't care if you are an E-5 an E-8 or an E-4. If you are in charge period you represent the person who put you there. That may be a commander, or it may be a SGM. For a leader to not address insubordination in any situation is an invitation to anarchy in an institution that thrives and grows on discipline. The only thing worse for moral within a unit is weak leadership. You as a leader must decisively and brutally stamp out insubordination with an iron fist. The Military is not a democracy, it is a institution that is tasked with the defense of it's country. It is an institution of trained and armed killers who have a tremendous responsibility that goes beyond any one individual or any one group. Anarchy and a lack of discipline within these types of units can and do lead to disaster. If you for some reason decide to go soft on these individuals that sow discord within a unit then you allow further displays of insubordination by other individuals who take this as permission to voice their opinions on a leaders decision. I believe that is all need to be said on my part.

I come from a simple time in the Infantry, I had a soldier tell me after I dismissed everybody to the motorpool that he wasn't going cause he can't work for black people, without missing a beat and showing no emotion I gave him the key to my room in the barracks and told him I understood and I had something special for him and told him to wait for me there, I brought the platoon to attention and dismissed them, went up to my room and beat his fuckin ass,when a soldier disrespected me I always took it personal FUCK army regs now it's personal, and I lived by this and I had a successful military career... And by the way me and that soldier became best of friends til his death in 93,I cared about all my soldiers and I would never disrespect them and I definitely didn't allow disrespect.. the Infantry Way... Don't know about these new times.

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I've never seen that happen, and if a PFC ever had the gumption to mouth back to an NCO like that, their life would have been over. This isn't even a scenario that I had considered possible before, and had I been tested like that, I would have found a way to immediately remove that Marine from my platoon and would have inundated them with endless paperwork to get them admin separated out.

In my day it would have been an immediate Article 15 and possible discharge. Insubordination was NOT tolerated.

He or she would receive intensive military retraining

Quite simple. I take the individual to my office along with another senior leader and fill out the appropriate paperwork. We have tools to handle this. We counsel the individual and explain what will happen next. If they are still non compliant, then NJP is applied. When I was much younger I would have flown into a fit of rage and yelled a lot. As I have grown into senior leadership I have learned to first counsel, document , NJP, finally process for discharge. Not every individual is cut out to be in the military and the millennial generation have to be taught what honor and duty mean and they don't respond to "old school" methods.

I would inform the Marine that "a request is nothing but a polite order.Just because I said please doesn't mean it is up for debate." Complete the task, and we will talk afterwards. If the Marine is still feeling froggy, whatever the excuse, he is gonna be jumping!

Remove him from the formation take them to my office and deal with him in private

I would keep that Soldier standing fast and have another NCO present to protect all parties present.........because if the E-2 has the balls to state what they did in the first place, then they probably have the stones to scream abuse and what not.......and explain to them that they were provided a lawful order to execute their duties. Also, I would inform them that if this type of action happens again, then a recommendation for a Company Grade Article 15 will be submitted for disrespect to an NCO, failure to follow a lawful order, and willful dereliction of duty. And of course, I would have this done in a counseling form and also have all that was present that heard the E-2 say this, write up their narrative in a sworn statement.

They would be cutting grass with scissors at the motor pool after work for rest of week.

Immediately pull the soldier out of the formation (having the soldier stand by by while getting the rest of to work) Then issue a counseling statement, getting the Platoon Sgt involved if needed. This would be a ONE TIME ONLY warning. They do it again and I am going to put them in for an Article 15. I have done this a few times. (Usually it only takes one wake up call to get the soldier to wake up and smell the coffee). Most times between me and the Plt Sgt we were able to take care of things.
Every time we brought a soldier up for an Article 15 for this type of infraction, the commander would send it up the line for a field grade Article 15, if for no other reason than to send a message.

I am not talking about the usual moaning and groaning and bitching and whining. I am talking about the egregious stuff. In the Army everybody bitches and whines

When i wars a 18m year old PFC I wanted to know why a Buck Sergeant put me on filling sandbags. detail. He looked at me and said Y is a crooked letter now get up off your ass and move. This was in October 1967. I have no idea what form of motivation is available to Sergeants now. In basic it weas a Drill Sergeant telling you to step into his office for some special counseling.

There are a few things I would know, if I were in this situation. First from the initial or previous counseling either I or my peers completed for this young military member there may be a situation causing this behavior. Second as stated from all leaders above the individual must be addressed immediately or as stated for this individual to remain behind with their direct line supervision so we can discuss in a smaller detail. Third as we progressed up in responsibility as directed line supervisors we were asked to provide personnel for specific duties as we knew our sections daily activities better than our leadership, as it should be. Finally if this individual subordinate would have never had any issue if his/her leadership were complete and consistent in their mission. No situation is ever exactly the same however if R-E-S-P-E-C-T is given then it is also earned. More than not if there is a breakdown in a unit’s discipline then there is an issue with respect. In the end Leaders never quit and Quitters never lead.

I would explain that he will follow any orders hes given then keep an eye on him.