Posted on Jul 20, 2023
SSG Carlos Madden
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The recruiting struggles continue across all branches. What is causing it and how should it be addressed?

https://www.wsj.com/story/the-us-army-expects-to-end-up-15000-recruits-short-this-year-b5e9de86
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SGM Bill Frazer
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1. 75% of males/kids are overweight and too fat/out of shape to join. 2. Thanks to Millennials- kids who were too active for their parents were put on drugs or sent to shrinks which require recruiting waivers. 3. A kid ( USAF Brat) posted that his culture as provided by his schools/peers has damaged/destroyed his Patriotism, that they have been taught "When you think of Pride, its the Rainbow Coalition, not America!" Modern parents and teachers have taught that if your feelings are hurt, go and hide in a safe place. Hell, Mass U is offering mental help because the Supreme Court vetoed Biden's Student Loan Payoff. All this makes it damn hard to find folks to recruit! Answer get our Country to start growing balls again and raise Adults, not "Snowflakes"!
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SFC Automated Logistical Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
5 mo
The newly confirmed Secretary of Defense should see you post, Sarmajor.
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SFC Automated Logistical Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
5 mo
Correction. As reads: see you - Should read: your post
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
5 mo
~~ T H A N K Y O U ~~
My Exact Thoughts: ~~ "......All this makes it damn hard to find folks to recruit!
Answer get our Country to start growing balls again and raise Adults, not "Snowflakes"!...." AIN'T THAT The Fa-King TRUTH?
It's Gotten To The Point Where We're Know As "The United States Of AMERICA, Where The Women Are WOMEN And The MEN Are Too".
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SGT David Burns
SGT David Burns
4 mo
SGM Bill Frazer my thoughts are put corporal punishment back in schools. We never heard of ADHD back in my time. We got the paddle on our bottoms and we straightened up. Recruiters would come to our schools and we all sat and watched their videos. There were also waivers for non violent criminal charges. I was in delayed entry and got arrested for minor in possession of intoxicants, public intoxication and disturbing the peace. When I went to court the judge asked what my planes were after I got out of high school. I told him I was in the Army delayed entry program but I had just messed that up. The judge said he would give me probation for 2 months (I had 3 months before I was supposed to join) and expunge my record and sign a waiver for the recruiter. That and basic changed my life for the better.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
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Edited 2 y ago
There are a lot of partisan / political talking points that can be made. But almost all of those are doomed to failure for that very reason. So, attempting to avoid those areas, here are a few things I think may make a difference.

1) I would go back to the ad campaigns of the 80s and early 90s. Or something similar. Quit trying to be so generic we don't offend anybody, or so specific we are only talking to a few.

Marines fighting lava monsters with a sword and Soldiers rapelling out of helicopters were just cool. There is an argument that they are "elitist" and may give kids the impression that they aren't good enough to sign up. But I think the more accurate argument is that kids KNOW they aren't that good - but those commercials encouraged them to sign up so they could BECOME that good.

2) I would also tighten up uniform rules and go back to class B being the "standard" duty uniform. Military members just look BETTER in service uniform, as compared to fatigues. And even just walking down the aisle of the grocery store or pumping gas at the gas station, those service uniforms are an advertisement all on their own.

3) Get recruiters back in to schools. All of them. HS and college. If the school gets even a dime from the federal government in ANY way, even subsidized lunches, wedge in there and get the recruiters talking to kids.

And I mean true engagement. Have the recruiter stop by in Freshman PE. Not even to recruit, but to help out. Maybe an official timer for a 1 mile run. Maybe a grader for some other PE event, or a referee for basketball. Maybe a different recruiter shows up in Civics/government class to talk about the Constitution. Get the recruiters in there being a part of their world. They don't even have to pitch their service, just help out the school and then have time to be available after class/during lunch/after school for anyone who wants to talk.

4) Re-look / re-assess admission standards. Especially regarding health history and mental health history. If an otherwise acceptable candidate is being disqualified for a mental health history, but that concern has been "cured" either through treatment or simply growing up (Yes, you can "age out" of ADHD), let the waivers flow. Same for medications that are no longer being taken, or even medications that are "routine" and can be easily stocked /supplied. (Not things like refrigerated insulin, or highly black marketable Adderall, but things like Welbutrin or guanfacine that are stocked in pretty much every pharmacy, are relatively resilient regarding temperatures, and pose little threat for re-sale if we have to send a Soldier out with a 180 day supply. This would obviously need a lot of medical scrutiny, but I think in today's logistical world, SOME of these meds should be waiverable.) Sure we may still need a waiver, and make the recruit (and recruiter) show that the previous concern is no longer an issue. But loosen the standard on the waivers and let them flow freely.

5a) re-look / re-assess what is a military job and what is not. Back in the early 2000s, we went through and eliminated a lot of "excess military manpower" tasks (mowing lawns, cleaning windows, etc.) to free up Soldiers to train, train, and train some more.

We still have things like post police and road guard, and I don't think these are going away. But do 90% of the military intelligence jobs at Fort Belvoir and Fort Meade need to be done by uniformed service members? What about logistics? Cooks on those "non-depoyable" bases?

I think we are unlikely to radically recover from the current shortages. Short of conscription, we should accept a lower end strength. If that is the case, what are the most critical needs, and let's build our units, MTOE, and TDA that way. Very little, if any, change to ECB. But at EAC I can see room for a lot of conversion.

5b) Those folks who want to join the military, but are unable to due to physical ability or prescriptions or family requirements may be able to move into those previously military roles. We can give them the same basic pay and benefits package, or close to it, but maybe without VA eligibility, as they are not actually military and do not face the same hazards, particularly combat hazards. (Yes, I know a small percentage of the military deploys to a combat zone - and an even smaller percentage actually engages in honest to goodness combat. And that percentage is dropping as we have closed out Iraq and Afghanistan, and the GWOT is down to a simmer. But all military members sign up for a POSSIBILITY of going to combat - and train for it.)

5 options and a corollary. All of them will take work and changes to policy. Most will require legislative action. But they are out there.


Ok.... there's my thoughts.... go ahead and rip 'em to shreds, peanut gallery.
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SSgt Paul Mulwitz
SSgt Paul Mulwitz
8 mo
I agree with a lot of this large post. When I was in the USAF (1970s) I always wore class B uniforms to work in my office. Fatigues were rarely worn when doing dirty work and never off base. It was illegal to wear most combat uniforms in public.

I won't give details on this point, but you may not be aware that at some of the bases you mentioned there are military people not in uniform. I had a special duty assignment for two years when I never wore a uniform. That was during the cold war when were working very hard to keep some secrets from the enemy.
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SPC Paul Eiden
SPC Paul Eiden
8 mo
Need to brag more about training opportunities.....
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LTC John Wilson
LTC John Wilson
8 mo
Man, I do love my NCOs! Especially the ones not afraid to offer a challenging opinion. Unfortunately, I think your points fall a bit short of the mark. You can't fix problems caused by cultural and political demoralization without risking political controversy.

According Carl von Clausewitz: “War is not merely a political act but a real political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse, a carrying out of the same by other means,...”

The very first point you make, SFC Casey O'Mally is deeply rooted in the political divide and a demoralized culture. If you believe we should bring back Marines fighting lava monsters instead of showcasing female social justice warriors raised by two mommies, then you've picked the side of "Toxic Masculinity" by default (not that your wrong, mind you), and are barreling straight for a political collision.

As to the second point, I don't believe that will have as much of an impact as you might think. Even if we assume you are correct on this point, we'd have to stop changing the uniforms every 6 - 9 months before it'd do much beyond confusing people. Even then, Service Members walking grocery aisles and pumping gas off base/post assumes that (a) regulations no longer exist that limit wearing the uniform in off-duty locations (i.e. the first McD's "Drive Thru" was set up at Fort Huachuca because Soldiers weren't allowed to go inside while in uniform); and (b) assumes that we have a military installation in every remote corner of the USA (granted, this is not necessarily a problem for the Reserve Component). And even if we do have Service Members donning their duds 24/7, there are a solid bloc of civilians who see that the same way a Jedi padawan sees a phalanx of Imperial Stormtroopers or a 1960s hippie at the airport lining up to spit on "Baby Killers" returning from Vietnam.

As to the third point, the lack of Recruiters in schools stems also from political demoralization that sees the United States as the sole source of all evil in the world from its very inception. School administrators, teachers, and parents steeped in Leftist ideologies don't want to see recruiters in the schools... and have banned them in some areas of the nation (mostly in "blue" regions); much less allow them to say anything nice or meaningful about our nation's Founding Charter and Bylaws. I don't disagree that Recruiters -- and Service Members, in general -- shouldn't engage positively in their local communities; however... (See pervious paragraph). At any rate, you've swerved into the realm of political controversy regardless of your stated intent.

Regarding your fourth point, issuing waivers for kids raised on psychotropic medications in the long term is borrowing trouble. But psychotropics and school shootings aside, the rise in psychiatric treatment -- especially among adolescent males -- stems from cultural demoralization. Take, for example, the movement that young, energetic boys should have their "toxic masculinity" medicated out of them in order to have them behave more like their more tame, female counterparts in the classroom. This is indicative of a demoralized culture that sees masculinity -- and men -- as a vestigial organ with no place or purpose in a "progressive" post-patriarchal society where "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Again, bang... you've collided with politics, even though you didn't want to.

Regarding 5a, we have already tried to fight a war with "civilianized" contract logistics (and lost). We've raised an entire generation of Soldiers and Senior Leaders who are used to three contracted hots, a CHU, and more bottled water than they can stand. They are now too spoiled and must adapt to a modern, conventional battlefield. I witnessed a Division-level Sustainment Symposium where the current generation of Logisticians lamented their inability to solve tactical logistics challenges my generation had long ago solved and managed as easily as breathing when the Soviet Union was still considered a threat. If you want deployable combat support and service support, then you have to have uniformed personnel in installation billets. For example. we have uniformed medical practitioners in stateside Medical Facilities to maintain their medical competencies needed in war. Most of these will deploy to staff CSHs, C Meds, and BASs when the balloon goes up. Perhaps we could contract gate guards, etc, to ma the fort while the force deploys, but that requires stable funding to maintain the contracts from a Congress that plays political games every 6 - 12 months with budget lines required of them under Article I, Section 8 to preserve pet projects that violate Amendment X... BANG! Politics!

With regard to changes in policy and legislative action... There you go again... smashing into politics...

As to accepting a smaller force structure, that may not not work when we are faced with innovative adversaries who can and will withstand crippling attrition, especially when we are "led" by a management class of professional bureaucrats who haven't won a war in the last 50 years. These same "bureaucrats" -- "experts" -- would rather risk violating Articles 88 and 94 of the UCMJ than imagine they should listen to (much less follow the orders of) a Constitutionally-elected leader (chosen by the People and the States) who won't accept their advice.

You're proposing remedies to treat symptoms of a fatal disease: cultural and political demoralization. Arguably, these may soothe the pain in the sort term, but it amounts to little more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the bow slips beneath the icy waters in the long term. And, you won't manage to implement a single one without a political struggle to one degree or another.

Consider yourself "ripped" :-)

Now... Here's your home work assignment...

https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?si=LvG69dRSY1u54_sk
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SGT David Burns
SGT David Burns
4 mo
SFC (Join to see) I somewhat disagree. When I was in the Army late 70's early 80's we had the tan Khaki uniforms and the green dress uniforms. I did not like the green dress uniform but most all of us loved the Khaki uniform.
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CSM Andrew Perrault
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Get the woke stuff out, along with the politics. Get back to basics of warfighting
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SGT Mark De Simone
SGT Mark De Simone
8 mo
Well said! Short and to the point
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MAJ Hugh Blanchard
MAJ Hugh Blanchard
8 mo
I enlisted just before the end of the draft. It was a mixed bag of folks from all over the country. The Drill Sergeants had all fought together in Vietnam with the 11th ACR and knew what we needed to learn to survive in battle. Most of us were not in great shape, but the drills soon fixed that. Unfortunately, as SSgt Simonds noted, many of the current cadre are not suitable due to social changes that have made us fat and unable to weather living in the outdoors. We need a program to give drill sergeants the capabilities to deal with the enlisting folks who have gang tattoos, drug use and too much body fat.
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SGT Information Technology Specialist
SGT (Join to see)
8 mo
I agree with you, CSM. We do need to focus our efforts on warfighting rather than policy changes that we don't agree with, or we do, but it is distracting our soldiers. Our soldiers are human just like us and watch/listen to different media platforms. We need our military leaders to make that clear with our political leaders that it is a distraction. I only say that because of world issues around the world that is currently overhauling our force structure.
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PO1 Ray Reasy
PO1 Ray Reasy
18 h
SSgt Robert Simonds - Sorry, but I disagree with you main point. TV was not the problem. I was born in 1960, I grew up watching TV, I also played outside with friends and all that other stuff. Why, because my parents would not allow me to watch tv but so many hours a day. I came home from school, ALL my homework was to be done before any playtime was to commence. I have seen that with each generation, the parents have become more lenient and relaxed with their children. I think the problem started when all of sudden, children had to have "participation trophies". If you never actually lose, you never learn how to deal with the actual feelings when you really do lose somewhere down the line.
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How would you solve the military recruiting challenges currently facing DOD?
1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel
36
36
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New leadership as the Secretary of Defense, the flag officers that let this woke stuff infect the military culture and some real leadership. After Vietnam, I realized how chickenshit the peacetime military can be.
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MAJ Civil Affairs Team Leader, Secretary Of Generals Staff, Chief Cbrn Officerof Generals Staff
MAJ (Join to see)
2 y
Asking for solutions please-
Ranting has little, if any positve up votes
Nothing to do with recruiting
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PFC Josh Peterson
PFC Josh Peterson
>1 y
Sir, you do realize that the military has historically been the "wokest" government organization since this country's conception, right? First to do a lot of things that didn't jive with the preconceived societal norms of the times usually. One of many examples: African Americans could serve when segregation was the norm.

Peacetime is kind of chickenshit, but its also an all volunteer military which kind of makes it an employer/employee relationship and with that comes certain legal protections that dictate some SOP. We still kickass overseas like professionals that weren't just drafted, quickly trained, and sent to the rice patties.
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SGT Chuck Freiman
SGT Chuck Freiman
8 mo
SPC Michael Tierney - It took you three days in Basic to realize how chicken shit the Army is? What took you so long?
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SPC Michael Tierney
SPC Michael Tierney
8 mo
SGT Chuck Freiman - I was the platoon guide and I liked the physical training aspect of the first few days. It was when I looked at the AFQT scores and I had to prepare the KP, night guard duty and daily duty rosters that i realized what a waste so much of it was. I did like being in charge. I was platoon guide in AIT too.
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SSgt Investigative Analyst
34
34
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Edited 2 y ago
This is my very shortsighted opinion that cannot match some of the other answers here, and SFC Casey O'Mally was absolutely on point. But these are my two observations.

Our pull out of Afghanistan and our majority withdrawal of GWOT was a catastrophic failure. As professional, committed, and successful as our troops were for the entire commitment, we never had a worthwhile strategic endgame from home. Getting OBL and dismantling ISIS became nation building for a country that didn’t want it. We got mired down in an unachievable goal. All of the military aged citizens saw that live on TV for most of their lives. It did not negatively impact their opinion of the US military, but it irrevocably impaired their view of how the US military was treated and used by their civilian government. Join, serve, and you’ll spend a career in the lion’s den of a war that will never end.

The only service branch that met their recruitment quota for the last fiscal year was the Marine Corps. Why? Because they never strayed from who they were as a fighting force. It wasn’t about tuition assistance or enlistment bonuses (McDonald’s and Chik-fil-A offered financial aid for college now). The Marines stuck with what they knew. Courage, honor, commitment, and brotherhood.
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CPT Leo Coleman
CPT Leo Coleman
2 y
The Marine Corps also "modified" their mission numbers- and cut end strength.
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1px xxx
Suspended Profile
2 y
unpopular opinion but absolutely spot on
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SSG Roger Ayscue
25
25
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1. STOP the use of the military as a Sociological Experimentation laboratory.
2. Show the US Military to be a bulwark of traditional American values.
3. Offer educational incentives that guarantee that a Soldier/Veteran can get the degree without having college debt.
4. Focus on the Mission, not the DEI.
5. Promote based solely on MERIT and ACHIEVEMENT.
6. Remember that the person most likely to enlist and to STAY ARMY is not a millennial snowflake but rather a young person that craves structure, discipline and adventure.
7. Control what Service members post on Social Media. NCOs for example, the Staff Sergeant that ranted on Tic Toc about gun control should be Court Martialed for being an embarrassment to the service.
8. Respect the rights and sensibilities of the MAJORITY of the service members serving now, rather than disregarding them in favor of the "Protected Group of the Month" for example the females that are being forced to shower and billet with biological males (See Attached Article)
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/07/18/report-female-army-national-guard-recruit-was-forced-to-shower-with-transgender-male/

https://www.foxnews.com/media/female-recruit-considered-resigning-being-forced-shower-trans-women-full-male-genitalia
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PO3 Shayne Seibert
PO3 Shayne Seibert
2 y
Amen brother!
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MSgt Jules K
MSgt Jules K
2 y
They won't. And if they say they will, it will be a lie. Let it burn and keep the rural white kids far, far away from these butchers.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG Roger Ayscue
2 y
CW5 (Join to see) - thanks a pant-load for the constructive criticism there Chet. You are cordially invited to ....you fill in the blank.
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PFC Josh Peterson
PFC Josh Peterson
>1 y
The military has always been the leader in Sociological Experimentation... so your first point is moot from the get-go... and if you dont believe me read a history book.
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SGT Mark Moen
17
17
0
Gut the career staffers, replace with warriors rather than politicians
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CPT Leo Coleman
CPT Leo Coleman
2 y
Well- we NEED good staffers. But they do need to be warriors.

How do we measure "warrior-ness"?

Real question.
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SGT Mark Moen
SGT Mark Moen
2 y
CPT Leo Coleman we are in the military, not a social service organization, leadership of a professional warrior.
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SGT Mark Moen
SGT Mark Moen
2 y
CPT Leo Coleman if you are not prepared to lead in battle your CPT is useless to your command.
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SGT Mark Moen
SGT Mark Moen
2 y
CPT Leo Coleman I was not recruited because of the 80's propaganda campaigns, I join3d because the military offered the disciplined people I desired to be with.
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1SG Brian Holt
17
17
0
So many Americans (of enlistment age) are being raised to dislike our nation, and parents (even veterans)are actually discouraging their children from considering service to country:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/eroded-patriotism-teen-shares-wont-follow-fathers-footsteps-military-recruiting-lags

Before you categorize me as 'one of those guys', let me clarify, I am not a fan of any MSM outlet... I just agree with the aforementioned article.

Another obstacle that needs to be addressed, is that the contrast between those who have served vs those who have not, needs to be significant. By this I mean, if everyone gets "free college", "free medical care", "loan forgiveness"... the only incentives left are "adventure" and "service to country".

Not only did I spend 3 years a a detailed-recruiter, but I also enlisted with "service to country" as my primary goal. Every father in my paternal lineage not only served, but encouraged their children to serve as well (myself included).

Unfortunately, it's impossible to rectify our enlistment woes without mentioning "politics". Most modern-day general officers are basically politicians in uniform.
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SPC Michael Tierney
SPC Michael Tierney
2 y
CPT Leo Coleman - Check with Modi, Erdogan, Xi, Putin, Hitler, any Ayatollah, Bibi, Urban, Trump.
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CPT Leo Coleman
CPT Leo Coleman
2 y
SPC Michael Tierney - Got it. You convinced me. Putting one's nation ahead of other nations is bad. We're on a good start finally. Thanks.
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SPC Michael Tierney
SPC Michael Tierney
2 y
CPT Leo Coleman - Being stupid is bad.
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CPT Leo Coleman
CPT Leo Coleman
>1 y
SFC (Verify To See) - Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing.

Your grandchildren will curse you.
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Maj Kim Patterson
16
16
0
Edited 2 y ago
I believe a lot of education was left behind during the Covid years. At school and socially speaking.however, it did create a strength the military should build on. Their understanding of AI and the comfort level with virtual battle decision making. Is far beyond what I have, Thery are ones writing and developing it. So perhaps we look for strengths that already exists and then look for the why of why they aren’t joining. Second, if we look at some of the young folks who have a black mark on their record because they got caught with a small amount of marijuana, they may have crucial skills but on paper we can’t accept them because of the charge. Kids aging out of Foster care. What program could be used to transition them to a preconditioning location and see if there’s any desire to go. We made our recruiting puddle so small, there aren’t any fish left. Think about how each rule or barrier affects the mission as a whole and which ones could be wavered. Kid is 15 lbs overweight because he powerlifts can’t make weight but he has a strong understanding of digitizing the future. Just a couple of thought from an old woman in the group who was told from day 1 I had no business being in the military because I was a female. Not every mission requires brute strength. Many require mental strength and creativity. Are any schools designing recruitment ads? There could be a competition and learn from what they value as the price for their service, Where do the youth see military members? Maybe some veterans who are active listeners can give a safe space for a young person to talk. And shorten that trust gap between the ages,
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SPC Randell Pendley
SPC Randell Pendley
2 y
Myself only Brother and only child are Veterans. Daughter is Iraqi Veteran. All Army
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Maj Kim Patterson
Maj Kim Patterson
2 y
My family has a lot of military service as well. Both as the military members and as the military families. SPC Randell Pendley thanks for your response and your service.
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SFC Automated Logistical Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
5 mo
Once potential recruits see we’re back in business, the incentive for becoming fit and to avoid and/or stop any “recreational “ drug use will happen. There cannot be any slack. No waivers. And let’s get back to kick-arse 1970’s Ft. POLK, LA BCT. Any training less than unrestricted training will yield less than desired results.
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Isaac Shelton
15
15
0
Quite frankly, people today don’t want to join for the simple fact of the transgender movement. The military is no longer about being tough, it’s about “being you.” Let’s call it for what it is: Transgenderism is nothing more than a mental illness and it should not be tolerated. Do you honestly believe those individuals can handle a high stress situation? Back to my point, it keeps the ones who are mentally stable from wanting to join because they don’t want to work for a “woke” military. As the saying goes, “go woke, go broke.” The military should be about preventing wars, not identifying one’s pronouns.
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CPT Leo Coleman
CPT Leo Coleman
2 y
Soldiers are better than you. Because basic training and drill sergeants (or "sargents" as we so often see....).
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Col Worthey Brisco
Col Worthey Brisco
1 y
I recently spoke to a 3-star friend and he tells me that the marching orders on LGBTQIA and Transgendered issues had better be a non-issue if you want to keep your job. They know a.lot.of whats happening is tied to mental health issues, but SECDEF service chiefs and the JCS have all made it very clear.
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Col Worthey Brisco
Col Worthey Brisco
1 y
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff Yes...here we are.
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SGT Chuck Freiman
SGT Chuck Freiman
8 mo
How many transgender people did you encounter while serving? Oh,I forgot, since you're a civilain, the answer is "none". I got three years on Active Duty and seven in the Reserves, and I never encountered a transgendered soldier. None at all.
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