Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
Can't hack it, get out. The mission may call for days without rest. maybe 10 mins of sleep is a delicious nap. Suck it up or get out of my military.
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Suck it up buttercup! Apparently no one told you that you’re in the Army and we have no room for snowflakes! You are supposed to be a warrior..... at least fake it.
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Somehow I missed this thread the first time around.
From a 1SG perspective, I can infer quite a bit from the 1SG's directive. There seems to be a culture in the unit where showing up for PT is optional. Five troops at PT is UNSAT. We don't know from the OP, but I'll wager another driver of this might be that the unit is not the best at APFT scores.
If my supposition is true, then the First Sergeant will make his point and then relax.
It is apparent that the 0530/1600 PT schedule is meant to accommodate two of the three shifts, and that it is illogical for some reason or another to conduct organized PT at midnight.
In the meantime, you're going to have to adapt your schedule, which shouldn't be all that hard with an 8-hour work shift. But I think that what makes sense is to have a pow wow within your shift to find a good course of action to propose to 1SG and let him know that his NCOs have got this and he can back off again - where any decent First Sergeant would prefer matters to be.
Since some time has passed, I am curious what the outcome was SPC(P) (Join to see)
From a 1SG perspective, I can infer quite a bit from the 1SG's directive. There seems to be a culture in the unit where showing up for PT is optional. Five troops at PT is UNSAT. We don't know from the OP, but I'll wager another driver of this might be that the unit is not the best at APFT scores.
If my supposition is true, then the First Sergeant will make his point and then relax.
It is apparent that the 0530/1600 PT schedule is meant to accommodate two of the three shifts, and that it is illogical for some reason or another to conduct organized PT at midnight.
In the meantime, you're going to have to adapt your schedule, which shouldn't be all that hard with an 8-hour work shift. But I think that what makes sense is to have a pow wow within your shift to find a good course of action to propose to 1SG and let him know that his NCOs have got this and he can back off again - where any decent First Sergeant would prefer matters to be.
Since some time has passed, I am curious what the outcome was SPC(P) (Join to see)
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PO2 Joseph Fast
I second this. Did your command fail to even listen to you like 99% of the people who commented on this did or were they sensible and actually helped you out with your problem.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Temporary issues like that, I don't LIKE, but I understand. That said, I would have told my chief's mess in a similar situation, if it's not unreasonable to be working at 2400, then it's not unreasonable to work out at 0000. For most of the year, that's not any darker than 0530 in many places.
Maybe they would decide that 1430 was a better choice.
Maybe they would decide that 1430 was a better choice.
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Go as ordered snowflake. You're with the big boys now. NO WAY OUT. Following orders is expected. Did you learn nothing in basic?
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From a Marine Vet that was 0331 M-60 gunner I have to SMH. Really? If you cannot PT on 5 hours of sleep then what shape are you in if you have to deploy? The lives of your brothers and Sister could depend on that, the mission could depend on that. I have to ask if the military is suited for you?
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PO2 Joseph Fast
Can and should are two VERY DIFFERENT things. Deployed, should. Not deployed, can. That is what we should realize. I CAN operate on next to no sleep, I've had MUCH practice. When there is no reason for it, I shouldn't. I would work out at 1230 in this case.
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I would say your lucky to have gotten so much sleep!! If I, as a 1SG, had only 5 show for PT I'd be a little ticked off also. Suck it up for now, sometimes the squeaking wheel doesn't get oiled. Put up with what your given regardless of how unfair it may seem. Look at it like a test, and your being watched. Come time for a promotion don't be surprised if you find your name on that list!!
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Life's a bitch and then you join one.... then you retire and get to sleep whenever you want
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SPC, as a guy who served actively for nearly 40 years, officer, NCO & enlisted, I will tell you that you'd better get prepared for more of these days. When you go into operations, your battle rhythm doesn't always allow for "oh captain, I'm not going to get my 8 hrs of sleep, you need to change it up." Bud, in the heat of uptempo ops, you may have a long string of nights where you MIGHT get 4 hrs. So, my advice to you is work on ways you can adapt to operating with less sleep. It may come in handy one of these days.
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Unfortunately, the non-combat world revolves around the day shift folks... good or bad that’s just the way it is. As a hospital administrator I understand your desire to sleep in after a swing shift. As a military member though, we’re sometimes called upon to make some sacrifices that on the surface don’t necessarily seem fair. Keep in mind there’s a bigger picture playing out that’s bigger than any particular person’s needs or wants. Military must be fit... bottom line. Our missions require us to be at our best, both physically and mentally. Suggestion... as others have said, suck it up for now. It won’t be forever. We all have our time in the barrel, but 99.9% of us make it, and we’re better men and women in the long run for having made it successfully through a tough time. Keep in mind... at least no one’s shooting at your ass as you run... there’s worse things than being sleepy.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Maybe the leadership should start making the sacrifice to be there at 0000 to PT him instead of asking him to do the equivalent. That might motivate them to look for the easily-discovered solutions (like a 1500 PT time) that doesn't ask one Soldier to suck it up because they couldn't be bothered to lead.
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Hate to be this guy but unfortunately you seem to be in one of those MoS that tend to get less sleep and just like others have said before you need to get use to it in case you deploy
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
I don’t see how getting less sleep prepares you for deployment in the end though.. I’m able to not go with little to no sleep. Just trying to think of a better plan for this situation. But hey that's making too much sense lol.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
SPC(P) (Join to see) - It doesn't. You acclimatize when you do deploy. To pretend like you should do it when not deployed is just an excuse for people who don't look out for their soldiers to talk and NOT give help or wisdom.
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SGT (Join to see)
PO2 Joseph Fast - Respectfully Petty Officer I believe it does help with this it is the same reason that my unit and other units do 24 hour ops it is to get you use to having to do these things. Having to do that shift and then getting little to no sleep then having to get back up and keep going is something that happens during deployments.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
SGT (Join to see) - Correct me if I'm wrong. What I am trying to explain is people should be able to adapt on command. For example, if I suddenly need to operate on 4 hours of sleep every day for the next 6 months, I can and would do it. I don't need practice nor have I ever. Practice just harms my body pointlessly and makes me grumpy. Most of us get conditioned in boot to see if we can. After we have the proof, it's unnecessary until required. Take this from someone who only had 3 months of shore time in a 24 month period (not that I'm really complaining about that. I actually liked deploying out onto another ship while my ship was in port, was a new experience.)
If you happen to be one of those who can't acclimatize quickly, I am sorry for you. However, the small amount of people who can't acclimatize on demand shouldn't be used as an example for those of us who not only can, but have and therefore should NOT attempt to get practice. Leave the practice for those who need it and see the positives, not for those who don't need it and thus it's only a negative.
If you happen to be one of those who can't acclimatize quickly, I am sorry for you. However, the small amount of people who can't acclimatize on demand shouldn't be used as an example for those of us who not only can, but have and therefore should NOT attempt to get practice. Leave the practice for those who need it and see the positives, not for those who don't need it and thus it's only a negative.
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SPC(P) (Join to see) It is always good to present a solution when bringing a problem to leadership. SFC Jason Boyd should be able to provide some great guidance regarding this issue.
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SFC (Join to see)
I would suggest addressing the deeper issue that the 1SG is worried about. What "should" happen is that your section leadership should push back against the 1SG in defense of their Soldiers safety and offer a viable solution. Since that's not what happened, the next best step is to take a viable interest in your sections PT plan and take it over. Approach the 1SG with your PT plan and explain that it would take place at 1300 or 1400 because you can't physically be at the 1600 formation and being at the 0530 formation would be a safety risk that would require a risk assessment due to soldiers driving with three hours of sleep or less at night. Then present a plan to uphold accountability and invite the 1SG to participate.
The 1SG is afraid of Soldiers not being held accountable and of them failing their APFT. Show him that you are capable of managing both. Most issues in the Army aren't covered by regulations and the regs give commanders wide latitude. So most conflict resolution comes from figuring out the other person's fears and addressing that.
The 1SG is afraid of Soldiers not being held accountable and of them failing their APFT. Show him that you are capable of managing both. Most issues in the Army aren't covered by regulations and the regs give commanders wide latitude. So most conflict resolution comes from figuring out the other person's fears and addressing that.
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SPC(P) (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see)
Because a couple people PCsd in my section I am the only one working the 1600-0000 shift at the moment. Do you know how they might react if I say I am doing PT in the afternoon on my own though? How will I show proof?
Because a couple people PCsd in my section I am the only one working the 1600-0000 shift at the moment. Do you know how they might react if I say I am doing PT in the afternoon on my own though? How will I show proof?
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC(P) (Join to see) I can never predict how another leader will react. Finding creative solutions to complex problems is the hallmark of leadership. If you can't see a solution they would agree with, consider what you would propose to your leader if this was your soldier and you knew it was unsafe to be driving like that. How would you ensure they're going to PT? How would you ensure accountability? What checks would you put in place to assuage the 1SG that you are present? Maybe propose checking in with him personally. Maybe propose leading another group, or a special populations PT session. Of course, this is a much easier proposal to pitch if you already have a decent PT score
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Four or five hours of sleep would be a luxury under many operating conditions especially in a combat environment; deal with it.
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LCDR (Join to see)
There's a difference between combat environments and "this is the next four years of your life because we can't be bothered to actually lead."
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When you have to say "I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but..." you are whining, Suck it up troop, welcome to the real world, the Military has been in the training business for a few years they know what they are doing, Hardship situations are all part of the package you signed up for. Stop bitching. least you got sleep.
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You solve this problem only one way. GO TO FRIGGING PT!! If you ever have to say " I don't want to sound like I'm whining" you're probably whining. Suck it up buttercup.
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What Army are you in? I don't want to appear disrespectful, but when I was in we didn't get a choice. TOP say go, we go! When you deploy, you will be wishing for those 4 hours of sleep...
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SSgt Joseph Baptist Is one of the few people making reasonable, reasoned comments. I believe that most commenting on this thread could learn some leadership and management skills if you could just emulate that philosophy.
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