I have a buddy who recently joined AD and wants to switch to reserves. Is this possible?

I wonder how much of this is due to his generations' attitude. I don't remember any of my peers ever doing this or hearing of this kind of thing happening. Now a days, if kids don't get what they want, they throw a tantrum (wich is what this looks like). Too bad he isn't considering the long term consequences or the impact this kind of behavior has on his peers.

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres - Actually I spent two years teaching NCO's at the 7th Army NCO Academy from 69-71. It was a very rewarding assignment because we taught NCO's from E-5 to E-7 the skills required to motivate their men/women to be better soldiers. We also taught the NCO's what it took to be better, so that they could become better leaders. Good leaders find a way to get the job done regardless of the obstacles.

SFC David Xanten - Good leaders find a way to get the job done regardless of the obstacles.

Good leaders are able to objectively evaluate each Soldier, able to discern when they have reached thier limitations in mental or physical capabilities and employ them within those limits. A good leader will do all they can with what they are given, but it is a poor leader that falls for the ill conceived book answer that it is always the leader's fault if the student does not, can not, is unwilling to learn, unable to retain, cognitively unable to understand, physically limited in ability.
Life is not a book, or a NCO academy motto... real Soldiers do not always fit a ideal concept. There is also the very real limitation of physical time and resources. It is a poor leader that wastes precious amounts of both on a SINGLE soldier ignoring the duties and obligations of the unit. The Military is not for everyone, forcing a bad position because the leader has unrealistic mindset they are a failure if a single SM is deemed unwilling, unable or both. There is good reason we have involuntary separations, for the better of the unit and thus the Military and the Nation.

SFC David Xanten It is commendable to go into every situation, or approach every soldier in "I'll find a way" mentality.. So credit to you where credit is due.
But it is just as commendable for a leader to recognize when, winning the battle is a lose for the war.

We come from different times, I was in during the draft and when the Army became All Volunteer. The times may have changed but the NCO Corps is still the backbone of the Army. That being said, it is hard for me to understand how giving up on someone is acceptable to anyone. I would think that during training is the time to weed out the undesirables and not after being sent to a duty station. Not everyone performs up to the standards of some, but they should be given the chance to learn or be transferred to another unit or job.

Well I would like to side with the recruiter however he is already 7 months into his contract and passed the window for his recruiter to have any influence on him....

There are plenty of people walking around the Army that are overweight and fail multiple PT tests.

Col Dona Marie Iversen - I'm in the army reserve, spent a few years on active. The standard is the same on paper, but I've been in 3 reserve units over 9 years and I've not seen one take PT serious, most just pencil in a score. I've been giving the same soldiers a PT test every month for nine months now and they still continue to fail. I ask my chain of command why we aren't maintaining the standards and chaptering these soldiers out. They blow me off, so most reserve units will take anyone as long as you have a pulse

SGT Calloway,

Delayed response, gave up the computer for a 4 day getaway...

Early on when PT first became a requirement I would agree with you.

But in all my assignments, we were all held accountable 100%. We even had leadership from other squadrons or units on base 'test' us to avoid favoritism. If the third time was not a 'charm' one received their walking papers.

We were forbidden to fly, deploy and participate in exercises etc if we did not have a valid passing score.

Respectfully disagree with the last sentence: "they blow me off, so most reserve units will take anyone as long as you have a pulse"

As with AD, Guard, Reserve and civilian employment, adherence to rules, regulations , all depends on leadership.

SGT Dave Tracy - I prefer the extra duty bit. I know it's 100 degrees and we been working out here all day, but someone needs to watch the ammo.. Congrats dipstick you earned it.

SSG (Join to see) - Yeah, that works too.

never a good idea to just flunk a PT test - getting flagged and eventually getting booted does not make for any reserves or guard to want you there either. You should really consider what you are doing. This is your life right now; do you know what the Army Values are? Integrity is a big one and failing a PT test is a testament to your integrity. Don't do it!!

Neither will I. that is a stupid move. I would like to meet this brick head.

Good comment. Col.

CDR William Kempner - Thank you!

Well put Mam! Although I feel I achieved a lot during my time in service, there is so much more I could have accomplished/ experienced had I pushed my self just a little more.

Just tell your buddy to suck it up. Because, when the job sucks, it sucks for everybody. You think it's difficult now? It has been ten years since I ets'd but I'd bet that being a PT failure is still the biggest SIN in the Army....??????

True Ma'am = that's exactly what I said - you said you swear to.... so do what you said you would do and suck everything else up. Drive on!!

I would finish his term of service, and then see if he can change his MOS.

The Army has a way of adapting from generation to generation while fielding a fearsome force limited only by political pussies. That being said, take his ass out to the pit!!

yes fulfill what you started - nobody held a gun to your head to enlist right? Just suck it up and do your best - turn your frustration into something positive by doing the best you can instead of the worst!!

SGT Kenneth Martin - no offense sir, but how will changing the MOS affect a person's intent to fail a PT test? Aren't all Marines/soldiers/Airmen/ seamen required to participate/pass a PT test to retain their grades?

Good advice. May be a case, don't brow beat him, string it out, and see how he feels in 3-6 mos. I did not get to serve do to injury, but I can imagine basic taking its toll on some peoples psyche, and once it is done, the depression may just go away. The physical stress I imagine can also take a toll on the mind. As that physical stress lessens after basic, he might come around. I guess we don't have all the facts of his situation. You don't want to lose what may be a great soldier, because he is a bit down. Everyone reacts differently.

yes true - if he is in the beginning, he hasn't really even given it a chance - he's probably young too and doesn't really know what he wants yet. Just give it a chance; you never know; after your obligation you may see yourself reenlisting - stranger things have happened!!

I MEAN NOW!!! HE IS A PROBLEM CHILD!!

Does the Army not have Palace Chase?

The USAF uses it to keep the investment (basic, tech school, training) in one way or another when they have personnel like this. 11B sucks. Most soldiers who work where I am all cross train out of there (after getting easy promotions) and into a MOS where they will be employable in the future.

Sage comment, SFC. The guy should just man up, honor his commitment, don't do anything stupid, and make the best of it. An Honorable Discharge says A LOT to any potential employer, not to mention other benefits-Veteran's Home loans, Education assists, any disability payments, even FUNERAL benefits-no one thinks of that, but it is a big deal for your family, etc. 'Nothing lasts forever"-he may get offered an early out, or have an opportunity to re-train or go into something new. It will end and if done right, he will be better and better off for it.

I appreciate the feedback!

PO2 if you read my comment I never said that someone who quits Seal/BUDS gets to leave the service, I just said they get the chance to quit, sorry for the confusion, I was just using that as an example of a way the service makes sure to get only the most motivated people to move forward in their training.

Do you really want the to give the people who sign on the dotted line this option? So the military (Our tax dollars) pay for training, food, lodging for several months and then have nothing to show for it? Then a few months of AIT and more training and money spent just to have someone decide they would like to make more money on the civilian side with all the training they just had? Then a few months later, when they are in a unit that is set to deploy, they say, no, I will just get out and leave my unit short handed. Yea, that sounds like a great idea! The recruits that sign on the line need to know that they will have to do the time they signed up for. If not, they get kicked out with a less than honorable discharge, and they can live with it the rest of their lives. The military is not like college where if you don't like it, you can just quit and walk away.

To add on to the post above, when I was an Instructor at Airborne School in the early 90s, I heard it cost about $10000/student to attend the school. Airborne school is 3 weeks long and had an average of about 400 students per class. That is travel to and from duty stations, food lodging, training, equipment, aircraft for the jumps and everything else involved. Now think of what it costs to send a recruit from home to basic to AIT(some of which are over 6 months long. Do you want our tax dollars wasted like that?

SFC cant you quit Airborne School at any point? Why is that allowed if its such a waste of tax money? Why not force them to finish since they signed on the dotted line to go? And yes, I would waste a hell of a lot of tax money to ensure that the guy on the line next to me actually wanted to be there and was doing something he loved!

The reason these schools allow people to quit is to make sure that only the most motivated finish, right? Giving people an easy way out helps weed out the weak or unmotivated. You were an instructor there, did that not allow only the best to continue on? Why cant we apply that to the initial schools? Its impossible to know what a military life is like until you experience it and it for damn sure aint for everyone.

Yes this would waste some of our tax dollars but if there's anything the military excels at its wasting money.

why do we spend more time trying to save one sm and thier poor choices than we do cultivating the next leaders

MSG (Join to see) - 90/10 rule. Not to mention MSG, there are those we will see who to others we should send them packing. You look at their counseling packets and it tells you to send him home. But when you look at what he had to work with, and for, the problem is two fold; an arrogant ass NCO, who shouldn't even have the stripes, knows very well how to write negative counseling statements, but has never written a positive one? We could blame Joe all day, but if you're not looking at Joes NCO with the same skeptical eyes, you might send the wrong one packing. If I came under you in this, I'd ask you to move both to separate PLTs and watch what happens there.

I don't think he necessarily hates the Army (possible leadership, wrong MOS).

SPC(P) (Join to see) - Wrong MOS? He chose Infantry. Hard to misunderstand what that job is or confuse it with something else. Probably picked Infantry because he wanted to be a bad ass and found out it was too hard.

That's exactly what he thought.... He's not the brightest bulb in the room

SPC(P) (Join to see) - Your going to find bad leadership or bad jobs anywhere you go in and out of the army. You cant just quit the army because you don't like your NCO's. Sorry it does not work like that and the reserves are no different you just don't see them as much.