Posted on Jan 7, 2017
If a wall of some sort is to be built to halt illegal entry, what do you propose would be a good "wall" to be built?
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Posted in these groups: 
ImmigrationDHSU.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Law
Law Enforcement
ImmigrationDHSU.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Law Law Enforcement
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 41
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Physical Boundaries can be built but immigration is cause by two things. Push and Pull. Imigrants are pulled to the US by the lure of jobs that pay much better than they can get at home, opportunities and social programs. The a border wall along Texas is a risk many will take if they can get a job as a laborer in North Carolina once the get past it, with little or no chance of deportation. The real " wall" needs to be removing the pull of those jobs and social services by cracking down on those who hire illegals, assuring that only legal residents get social benefits and requiring that State and Local Law enforcement assist in enforcing immigration laws.
The "Push" is in the native countries where the economies are so bad and governments are so corrupt that people feel hopeless. There is little we can do as a country other than try to be a good nieghbor and trade fairly with them. I would say we could suggest that those countries be open to foriegn investors,, with the caveat that anything made there be bought and consumed there, or be subject to regular trade agreements.
The "Push" is in the native countries where the economies are so bad and governments are so corrupt that people feel hopeless. There is little we can do as a country other than try to be a good nieghbor and trade fairly with them. I would say we could suggest that those countries be open to foriegn investors,, with the caveat that anything made there be bought and consumed there, or be subject to regular trade agreements.
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MSG Thomas Currie
Much of the "pull" is deliberate and highly organized. Huge caravans of people don't walk thousands of miles with small children without organization and support. Many of the people coming to the US seeking "asylum" are recruited, coached, and transported from their home countries in Central America -- only walking short distances for photo opportunities.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
MSG Thomas Currie -
AND MSG CURRIE, ~ Given The Identical Situation,
Family In Tow, Unemployed, Hungry, Homeless, And Broke,
You Would ............................... ? Fill In The Spaces.
I've LIVED In Central America And Therefore, Have Witnessed The Conditions In Which They Live; And The Vast MAJORITY You've Stated In Your Comment I Pure, Unadulterated Bull Sh*t ~... "HIGHLY Organized ~ HUGE Caravans"? ~ What A Load Of Crap ! ~
~ And Just WHERE And HOW, Do People, SO Poor They Can't Even Afford Food For Themselves And Their Families, Acquire The Multiple THOUSANDS Of Of Dollars, For Such Wonderful, And Obviously EXPENSIVE Amenities? ~
~ CARAJO~!! ~ Como Es Posible que gente como el este, puenen vivir cuando no tienen niugua cosa en sus cabezas? ~~ Que Va ~ Y "M I E R D A" Tambien !
AND MSG CURRIE, ~ Given The Identical Situation,
Family In Tow, Unemployed, Hungry, Homeless, And Broke,
You Would ............................... ? Fill In The Spaces.
I've LIVED In Central America And Therefore, Have Witnessed The Conditions In Which They Live; And The Vast MAJORITY You've Stated In Your Comment I Pure, Unadulterated Bull Sh*t ~... "HIGHLY Organized ~ HUGE Caravans"? ~ What A Load Of Crap ! ~
~ And Just WHERE And HOW, Do People, SO Poor They Can't Even Afford Food For Themselves And Their Families, Acquire The Multiple THOUSANDS Of Of Dollars, For Such Wonderful, And Obviously EXPENSIVE Amenities? ~
~ CARAJO~!! ~ Como Es Posible que gente como el este, puenen vivir cuando no tienen niugua cosa en sus cabezas? ~~ Que Va ~ Y "M I E R D A" Tambien !
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MSG Thomas Currie
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - Pretend whatever makes you feel better, but you know you are pretending. There is no way that thousands of small children are walking from Central America, across over a thousand miles of Mexico without support and organization.
Like it or not, the memes about these people arriving fat and with cell phones are largely true. Without massive support a 1000 mile migration would leave thousands dead or dying all across Mexico.
These people ARE being recruited, organized into convoys, transported, and supported until they are dropped off near the border crossings. They arrive at the US border fully briefed on exactly what to say.
As you say, they are poor, so what does anyone expect them to do when the people recruiting them make promises about all the free stuff they will be given in the US and assure them that they will be fed and provided transportation to the US, then comfortable free housing, food, and money in the US. Of course they hop on the truck or bus for their ride to America.
Like it or not, the memes about these people arriving fat and with cell phones are largely true. Without massive support a 1000 mile migration would leave thousands dead or dying all across Mexico.
These people ARE being recruited, organized into convoys, transported, and supported until they are dropped off near the border crossings. They arrive at the US border fully briefed on exactly what to say.
As you say, they are poor, so what does anyone expect them to do when the people recruiting them make promises about all the free stuff they will be given in the US and assure them that they will be fed and provided transportation to the US, then comfortable free housing, food, and money in the US. Of course they hop on the truck or bus for their ride to America.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SARGENT: Some Of The Time, When I See
Comments Such As You Just Made, When You've NOT
Had The Actual Experiences We Others Have,
This Is How I Feel ~ Because WE Have"
Been THERE ~ Seen THAT ~"
~ And You HAVEN'T~
Comments Such As You Just Made, When You've NOT
Had The Actual Experiences We Others Have,
This Is How I Feel ~ Because WE Have"
Been THERE ~ Seen THAT ~"
~ And You HAVEN'T~
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SGT (Join to see) a wall that prevents tunnels....as the old saying goes: "where there is a will there is a way".
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SSG (Join to see)
The simple truth is that our current border security efforts are more than adequate if... we eliminate demand for illegal drugs and cheap labor. Until we eliminate demand for illegal drugs and cheap labor, no wall or number of border patrol agents will prevent supply from meeting demand.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Douglas-Arizona-US-Border-Patrol-Catapult-Drugs-Launched-From-Mexico-413841333.html
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Douglas-Arizona-US-Border-Patrol-Catapult-Drugs-Launched-From-Mexico-413841333.html
Catapult Used to Launch Drugs Over Border Fence in Ariz.
Drug smuggling attempts by car across the U.S.-Mexico border are a frequent occurrence but, in Arizona, smugglers got extra creative, using a catapult system to launch bundles of drugs across a fence.
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LTC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - how about those random places that people randomly show up in Mexico with handguns and get detained and put in jail? (hypothetically of course, not taken from news headlines or anything...)
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Ever notice how countries that rigorously enforce their borders do not have illegal immigration problems? In some of those countries, the best case scenario is being sentenced to hard prison labor. Worst case you get shot on sight. Our border is a joke, on both the North and South sides. I have traveled areas of the northern border with Canada where you can go miles without seeing a fence let alone a checkpoint or border patrol guard. The irony is not lost on me considering one of the big missions in Afghanistan was teaching the Afghans how to do border security.
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SGT (Join to see)
Which countries do not have immigration problems? And as per the question what do you propose as a solution?
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SPC Casey Ashfield
Every country has illegal immigration problems. But penalties for breaking the law are more severe in others. This country under the current president virtually lays out a welcome mat for illegals to break the law.
My solution would never be allowed because politicians are too spineless.
My solution would never be allowed because politicians are too spineless.
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SSG (Join to see)
The easiest way to become an illegal immigrant in this country is to simply come here on a tourist visa and stay. Most illegal immigrants from Mexico don't have to sneak across the border... they come here on shopping trips and never leave. All but the poor bastards who are already in Mexico illegally, or who can't afford the necessary paperwork. Drugs often come by tunnel, however lately using catapults and/or trebuchets is growing in popularity. Flying UAVs across the border is also a solution, I can't help but wonder if that is how Amazon got the idea.
The point is that the solution isn't to try and turn the US into a guarded prison camp, drugs still find their way into our prisons despite all the walls and guards. The solution is to eliminate demand for illegal drugs by legalizing those drugs and eliminate demand for illegal workers by allowing more of those workers to come into the US legally and by boosting minimum wage so that more American workers are willing to work those jobs.
The point is that the solution isn't to try and turn the US into a guarded prison camp, drugs still find their way into our prisons despite all the walls and guards. The solution is to eliminate demand for illegal drugs by legalizing those drugs and eliminate demand for illegal workers by allowing more of those workers to come into the US legally and by boosting minimum wage so that more American workers are willing to work those jobs.
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Maj Joan Marine
SSG (Join to see) - So, legalize drugs and see if Darwin's theory is correct...maybe that is what CA and Washington state are doing now. You are attempting to work past the problem. The demand for illegal drugs multiplied exponentially when the Fed govt outlawed legal pain meds from Medical Practitioners, which moved people seeking pain relief to street drugs that are not safe and controlled. In addition, those with mental health issues have no recourse for their mental problems and no one to look after them until they are stable on meds and so these people will always be homeless and untreated. Dependent personalities become addicted fast and stay that way. They have no "problems" when they are high and giving them food and drugs to prevent them from withdrawing is just another way for the Govt. Federal and Local to keep them dependent on the handouts.
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The wall can be a physical wall where practical, a virtual wall where natural boundaries or terrain makes a wall unnecessary. We can use drones and other technology too.
The real change will be our posture toward the border. If people know it is next to impossible to get in, fewer will try. If they know that once caught they are going immediately back that will reduce the effort more. The last piece is our posture toward the countries allowing their citizens to illegally migrate. We should let them know they either stem the flow or we will eliminate the foreign aid they receive from us immediately.
If we want to talk about a guest worker program, of we want to labor, then we can do that as a separate initiative.
The real change will be our posture toward the border. If people know it is next to impossible to get in, fewer will try. If they know that once caught they are going immediately back that will reduce the effort more. The last piece is our posture toward the countries allowing their citizens to illegally migrate. We should let them know they either stem the flow or we will eliminate the foreign aid they receive from us immediately.
If we want to talk about a guest worker program, of we want to labor, then we can do that as a separate initiative.
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I really don't think waisting millions of furthered tax dollars is necessary. Not to offend anyone here who's family came over in immigration after WWII. However, the rising increase I see is due to all of welfare, aid and free medical given to anyone coming over. I see a lot of it in some our local county news here in California. One case a man came over from Mexico said the famous magic words "Oboma said it was ok" and he pretty much got a free place to live paid by tax payers, free meals and in home care after getting open heart surgery. Which was also paid for by Oboma care. Only to return back to Mexico when released from doctors care.
The majority of people are opportunists, if they can take advantage they will. It's just up to us if we want to continue fronting the bill. So take away all the free hand outs and they will more then likely just leave.
It's the same concept as feeding wild animals, if you do it once they will come back and expect it. Many people have been attacked because they of feeding cute critters such as raccoons for example. Some do it for years and when they think the raccoon has decided to be apart of the family, the person goes to pet them and is in absolute awe and star struck because it attacked them! So no matter how intelligeant of a species we think we are, we still have primitive tendencies.
You can't keep feeding the majority of the world because you feel sorry for them, and then expect a big thank you for your efforts. Instead offering aid, offer help to fix there government so that they can be more reliable on there own natural resources.
The majority of people are opportunists, if they can take advantage they will. It's just up to us if we want to continue fronting the bill. So take away all the free hand outs and they will more then likely just leave.
It's the same concept as feeding wild animals, if you do it once they will come back and expect it. Many people have been attacked because they of feeding cute critters such as raccoons for example. Some do it for years and when they think the raccoon has decided to be apart of the family, the person goes to pet them and is in absolute awe and star struck because it attacked them! So no matter how intelligeant of a species we think we are, we still have primitive tendencies.
You can't keep feeding the majority of the world because you feel sorry for them, and then expect a big thank you for your efforts. Instead offering aid, offer help to fix there government so that they can be more reliable on there own natural resources.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - at least you squared him away and I'm glad for that, could have been a bad scene though, they do work hard for sure because this is a picnic compared to back at home, we just need to decide what we're going to do because this "talk and wait" is not getting the job done, it's intentional though - just a "slow roll" to keep up high profits, many like it just the way it is and they spread lots of cash around to make things stay "as is", I've been told that in some areas they almost have a chain of command and rank structure, everybody in the chain gets their cut of the profits from the coyotes and shippers to the handlers on-site, as you say it's not just a border thing, all over the south and anywhere there's farm labor that is more easily hidden from accountants and enforcers that are more prevalent in industry and manufacturing, Tyson foods got caught in a big way a few years back and they had a nice scheme going for de-boners and similar in their poultry processing plants, they just pay a fine and once things cool off or after they grease enough palms it's business as usual, unlike in metro areas crime is the farthest thing from these rural worker's minds, they just want a chance to better their lives, I have zero problem with it but they need to do it legally
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MSgt George Cater
SFC (Join to see)
Mary, your clarity on the subject is as refreshing as it is rare among the politicians entrusted to enforce the laws. All Trump has said in reality is stop giving criminals a pass and OBEY & ENFORCE THE LAW. And see how he's damned for it. I honestly don't see how supporters of open borders and sanctuary cities justify their arguments.
Mary, your clarity on the subject is as refreshing as it is rare among the politicians entrusted to enforce the laws. All Trump has said in reality is stop giving criminals a pass and OBEY & ENFORCE THE LAW. And see how he's damned for it. I honestly don't see how supporters of open borders and sanctuary cities justify their arguments.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSgt George Cater - Thank you, and if the open border support is the same as the support of Cancer doctors then it's all about money. For example, they have the cure for cancer but it is illiegal to practice in all states but Texas because it deprives each Specialist a minimum of $240,000 a year for each cancer patient. The servival rate for Kimo and other test treatments is over 80% fail rate. But the data collected for each patient that dies is given a bonus for how each indivual reacted to treatment. Case by case studies if you will. To me, it's our own countries way of legally performing Genocide, as long as it's prescribed by a doctor with your consent to be experimented on.
So open borders would work well for the states being effected. Every year when they do the yearly federal budget they look at specific catigories. One of the biggest funded catigories is crime. The more people arrested the more the state gets in funding. You don't necissarly have to have a name, you just need a body, fingerprints and a reason. So the states that have a high criminal rate get millions of dolor to the justice system. However, if you ever listen to law enforcement department there always short handed. But there crime rate is fenominally out of control. So where is all that money going to if not properly staffing.
I unfortunately live in a county that ranks #11 on the most corrupted in thenUnited States by local legislations, courts and law enforcement. There are 3,144 counties all together in the country. In the end,it's all about money and power.
So open borders would work well for the states being effected. Every year when they do the yearly federal budget they look at specific catigories. One of the biggest funded catigories is crime. The more people arrested the more the state gets in funding. You don't necissarly have to have a name, you just need a body, fingerprints and a reason. So the states that have a high criminal rate get millions of dolor to the justice system. However, if you ever listen to law enforcement department there always short handed. But there crime rate is fenominally out of control. So where is all that money going to if not properly staffing.
I unfortunately live in a county that ranks #11 on the most corrupted in thenUnited States by local legislations, courts and law enforcement. There are 3,144 counties all together in the country. In the end,it's all about money and power.
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SFC Jim Ruether
If you don't put the bird feeders out they will go away. I agree. Stop the social programs and give these folks a social security card and put them to work. No free benefits and a lot of them will go back home!
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To equate 1620 to 2017 requires quite an imagination however to answer your question it would have to be a wall that would do just that, keeping out those who would come here to do harm such as Islamic radicals and other criminals. If immigration is what we desire then apply the laws already in the books and get the good ones in.
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MSgt George Cater
Just declare her a 16 year old Syrian refugee who lost all documents due to chaos.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. You're situation is a perfect example of the flaws. It must be fixed. SGM (Join to see) -
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. You're situation is a perfect example of the flaws. It must be fixed. SGM (Join to see) -
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SGT (Join to see)
The picture is a joke to make light of the situation and to show the absurdity if actually "building a wall"
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Our larger immigration problem has little to do with Mexico. Many came here legally, then illegally outstayed their visas (work/student/tourist/etc). The numbers of those coming through the southern border are only a small percentage.
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SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM
I think the ONLY real solution is ENFORCEMENT. Proof of citizenship or LEGAL status should be a requirement for anything done that is government related... vote, drive, bank, collect welfare or any other government transaction... getting hired, since taxes are part of that process... And to further should be fingerprint verification (with an ID) to a secure database so counterfeit cards/documents cant be made.
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SSG William Bowen
Most criminal aliens are Hispanic from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, & Nicaragua, and many of these with the most serious criminal offenses have never been legal. There are more from Europe and Africa that overstay their authorized time of stay (because technically you can be here on an expired visa), or that screw up their student status and are considered illegal. When compared to outright illegals, those that overstay or otherwise, do not commit much crime in the overall scheme of things. Not to say they don't commit any but they are trying to keep a low profile. You would think anyone here illegally wold try to keep a low profile by staying out of trouble but they don't. There are also hundreds, if not thousands, of Mexicans that cross the border legally everyday to work, shop, visit family, and many other reasons.
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CPT Jack Durish
America is not a place. It's an attitude. It's a culture. It's a way of life. Indigenous people rejected all this and chose not to assimilate. Had they, they too would be Americans. Sure, it would have been difficult. It was difficult for every one who ultimately assimilated. Many fought their parents who clung to the old ways.
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Amn Dale Preisach
CPT Jack Durish and the posted decrees that went out to the forts and towns that read "...all Indians should report to the nearest Fort for gathering / relocation Otherwise any outside after the deadline will be considered hostile and dealt with as such..."
Lord knows all tribes were literate and knew English very well.
The " notices/ postings" were for show. So the government would have an excuse to outright take the land and treat them as prisoners of War.
Lord knows all tribes were literate and knew English very well.
The " notices/ postings" were for show. So the government would have an excuse to outright take the land and treat them as prisoners of War.
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I would be good with Invisible Fence and Shock Collars. It works like a charm on my Beagle
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PO3 John Wagner
Lmfao. Could the shock collars be installed in a more private location? Any attempt to remove should only result in a tightening of the collar creating a scenario similar to the process used for making a bull calf into a steer
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