If you are non deployable, you shouldn't be able to get promoted. What do you think?

I was non-deployable for nearly a year and a half. I was promoted from E-5 to E-6 in that time frame. And I am still in the army today. Actually got promoted this year to E-7. So should I have been chaptered out in that time frame? If you don't know the reasons that people are non-deployable, don't jump to conclusions that this person or that person is just dead weight. Maybe there is a legitimate reason why they are non-deployable. Don't judge people you know absolutely nothing about.

For myself, I set a standard. If I ever got to the point where I needed a profile to stay in, then it was time to get out - but that was just me and the standard I had for myself. After I came back from Iraq , in 2004, I needed a profile because I couldn't take the APFT, and I knew with the collapsed disk in my back and the problem with my shoulder I was non deployable, so I got out. I guess it was just the final nail in my "career coffin". If I couldn't lead from the front, then I didn't feel I belonged - THIS WAS MY PERSONAL STANDARD. I lost 10yrs of service I'd planed on, but I wouldn't change my standard.
I'm not saying this is for everyone. There are a lot of reasons for non deployable status. I also know there are those who shouldn't be in the military because they don't have the commitment. When I was SNCO (1SG acting) of a unit(USAR), we had a soldier holding a position in our unit. We got notified we were going to get deployed. In the Reserve, before the official deployment order was released, if a person had a chance to get out. We had a soldier who was in leadership position wanting out because he was in school and didn't want to miss any classes. The CDR let him transfer to a USAR school so he could stay in school. There were other soldiers who were missing school, but went anyway. I know there was a job at the school to be done, but I lost all respect for this soldier because he was taking a position which at the last minute we had to scramble to fill.
I feel if a soldier is in a deployable unit and is in a non deployable status, then this person shouldn't be in a leadership position. Our units should always "train as they fight", and if the training leadership can't deploy, then there's a hole. Yea, I know we all train up and down because we all are expendable, but when a unit has to start with a hole to fill, then I think it is very non-professional of the soldier to put a unit in this position. They can be used in the unit, maybe as Rear Det or something, but if this soldier was a PS, then he/she shouldn't be training the platoon to deploy.

There was this Sm that when Top told us we were going to Iraq in 03 the Sm stated they did not sign up to do this, let's just say that Sm and a few more Sick Call soldier's stayed back in the rear with the gear, Had a Plt. Sgt like that couldn't wear the Vest couldn't Pt But could train us and cuss us out just because one soldier was running behind for morning formation and this Sm was a good soldier never late for formation never a neg 4856.

I think that if you are really non deployable you need to be separated. Period. When the SMA recently discussed the 50,000 Soldiers who are non deployable he included in that number many who are simply not compliant with MEDPROS. It is a constant struggle to keep people up to date simply because junior leaders aren't engaged and invested in ensuring the Soldiers they lead are medically deployable.

I believe that the only reason to have an Army is to kill people and break things. If you can't wear you gear, carry a weapon and go to the field you basically are taking up a spot from somebody who is fully mission capable.

One thing you can do is not approve leave or passes if people aren't compliant with MEDPROS.

As far as legitimately non deployable folks go, I think we have to be careful about pulling the trigger too fast on medical separations. If somebody is legitimately hurt/injured we have an obligation to see if we can fix them and return them to duty. If they aren't going to get better they need to be separated.

That's just my $.02 worth, and all I feel like jamming out on an iPad.

It used to be that if you were non-deployable this was always the case. When you status changed, you were allowed back on the promotion list. I left the active Army in 92 & went in the Guard. We had a guy who weaseled his way out deploying saying he had asthma as a kid. He didn't come with us & it ticked off everybody that he got promoted. When our CG found out about all of the shenanigans, he busted him back down & made sure to get deserving, deployed people their promotions. I am sorry, but it's like training for the Olympics & not being able to participate. Being deployable is what the expectation of your job is. Many people who got injured had their careers ruined & were forced out. That's just the risk of doing the job.

I think it depends on the reason they aren't deployable; I don't think anyone is going to begrudge the guy who got wounded in action taking a billet back home. The ones that grate are the ones that seem to be working the system to avoid going overseas. I'm guessing that this is harder to do on active duty than in the guard/reserves, but when I was at Hood 07-08 time frame, there were a lot of instructors who had been there for years without deploying. Some of whom definitely were not professional NCOs.

I agree , if this was the norm there are plenty of military personal missing limbs that would still like to serve and can't . It's one thing if it's not in your MOS but shouldn't be taking up a billet if you can't perform !

I think all of you are being sensitive. #allopinionsmatter lol. Just because one person's opinion doesn't parallel yours doesn't mean that they're unprofessional, just like your opinion of said person making an opinion makes you more professional. I myself (an infantryman) have been deployed 5 times to real combat between Iraq and Afghanistan. That doesn't make me less experienced than someone who has 7 or more experienced than someone who has less than me. There are plenty of MSG's and SGM/CSM's that have not deployed once I there 25+ year career but still have more experience than I do as a SFC with 18+ years. There are are plenty of people with "real combat" deployments that have no experience whatsoever. That's just how it is. I think the key is to identify those who aren't deployable, find out why, then if their issue is valid put them in positions where they can still serve honorably. JMHO

IMO, if you can't deploy, you should be separated. Get out, get the treatment you need, etc. RCP is a waste of $. Why let a Soldier stay in that's non dep? Then not promote them? They'll be allowed to stay in, prolonging the inevitable. This isn't to say non deployable Soldiers aren't good leaders, etc. Our job is to be deployable. If you cant, then you need to get out, get the help you need, and get a job that doesn't require you to deploy. Respectfully.

I think everyone should have to deploy but there are reasonable exceptions. Look at Gregory D. Gadson. he lost both legs in the service. He didn't want to leave the service and he stayed in after the injury. Situations like that, I am OK with someone being non deployable. However if they are non deployable because they don't want to be away from their family or other reason similar, then I don't agree with it. I am a Navy vet. I did two deployments. I was in the gulf during the Iraq/Iran war and then Desert Storm. I had to be away from my family during that time and short cruises as well. I was lucky that my ship is in port when my wife went in labor on both my kids, so I got to see them born. However there are many sailors, grunts, soldiers airmen that wasn't as lucky as me. Those positions should be available for those that have been deployed to give them a break in order to spend time with their family. I don't know how the Army works but sailors do a tour at sea and then a tour on shore duty. I imagine the Army is the same. They are up for orders every so many years. The only other ones I think should be able to get a nondeployable orders would be for situations like Gregory D. Gadson.

I think the SFC is talking about people who've been in 15 plus years never deployed, can't wear there vest because of this or that. Those are the same people who go to training thinking they know everything and that gets on my nerve. I've been in 7 years did 1 real deployment to Afghanistan and a second "deployment" to Kuwait now I have under my belt as a SPC, will probably end up with 5 deployments total, how can I take a SFC or a MSG seriously if they've never deployed or are non-deployable. How can you even make it that far in your career without one deployment.

I agree why follow and "learn" from them if they can never go overseas with you. Unless I had to learn how to ride a soft shoe profile

SFC (Join to see) I know of an NCO was ND due to weight prior to ODS. When his unit was deployed he said "I'm ND" they told him get ready to deploy that weight control was a peacetime requirement and he deployed and was subsequently promoted to SSG.

Seems like SMA agrees with me and thinks it's the number 1 problem in the Army lol

I think that would be correct. If you cannot deploy, you cannot perform your wartime mission. If you cannot perform your wartime mission. Time to move on to other career options

SFC (Join to see) Well i read through a lot of the responses and your post. And all i have to say is your comments are that of an E7 not that as a SFC. You had a valid point then but the way you have it worded is that if you cant deploy you are useless and need to out process. If this is still your mind set i hope you do not make it any farther up the ranks. you have such a narrow point of view. I pray that you never get so injured you are non-deployable because then you meet your out demise based on what you wrote above. I have worked for someone like you and my time there sucked because if your narrow minded here where else are you narrow minded. This mentality will hurt a troop more because when they do get injured they wont get help for fear of being told they need to leave service. You should think of the backlash this could have on the Services.

So SFC Thomas I should be sent home because I'm not deployable because I tore my ACL and meniscus in Afghanistan earlier this year? Had two surgeries to fix my knee and won't be deployable until next year sometime due to recovery time.

There are plenty examples of good soldiers who are not deployable, and plenty of bad soldiers who are. With all due respect SFC your premise needs some thinking through.

With you on this. If you cannot fit in your gear, can't be trained, and can't do your job, then you are wasting a valuable space that could be taken by someone who is trying to make a career out of this. Anyone who is just bullshitting around needs to just get out. This is a very honorable job that should be respected and not freeloaded. Yeah, we have some perks like college, but that should not be the only reason a fatass (as you described, SFC) would want to stay in.

But I also know that some jobs are not deployable, mine in particular. Some units stay back while others go overseas.

I have had many leaders like you SFC Thomas. I certainly respect your opinion regarding this matter, I only hope that you don't ever fall into the category you are putting physically disabled Soldiers in...it is a bad place. I am judged everyday because of my physical limitations. My job still gets done and done to my high standards. I ensure my Soldier achieves this same standard. I do not think that having physical limitations means I shouldn't be able to get promoted and lead Soldiers, but there are senior leaders, like you, who think this and therefore make it impossible for some to get promoted. It is kind of refreshing to hear a senior leader say this, because I have been saying there are senior leaders who discriminate against Soldiers with physical limitations.

SFC,
Not every unit in the Army are deployable!
However, they do importent job as well....so, is that case, should we not be promoted ? Or be chaptered out?

SFC Thomas,

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am currently stationed in Hawaii and I have seen numerous O-5 and below, as well as E-8 and below with no deployment patches. I find it very frustrating when these individuals are made our leaders when they do not understand the true concepts behind deployments.

However, I would be hesitant to condemn non-deployable soldiers. While I am not 'blacklisted' as being non-deployable, I am suffering from a chronic multi-symptom illness from my service in Iraq. My medical condition continues to deteriorate, but our medical system will do nothing for me. They will not even send me to a MEB for retention evaluation. I do not think I should be deployable or even in the service at this point, but our messed up system allows my mistreatment to continue. Non-deployable in my experience can mean two distinctly different things 1) You are overemphasizing an injury/illness to avoid a deployment or 2) You are truly injured/ill and are getting fucked over by the Army medical system and not being process for MEB. The least amount of Army bullshit I have experienced is when I was deployed. I honestly want to deploy right now in order to get away from the bad leadership and medical mistreatment I am currently experiencing. I'd rather suffer with less bullshit deployed; then be made to suffer due to negligence in garrison.

Being non-deployable does not make one less of a soldier or a leader. A soldier can be non-deployable because of an injury received on one or more previous deployments. Does this make their experiences count less because they cannot currently deploy? Does this mean they can no longer be a leader - a combat leader yes, but we still need installation and other TDA staff. I think you need to take in the bigger picture to appreciate the fact that there is a role for everyone in the service, we don't forsake our own.

This idea of non-deployable, non-promotable, or flagged, is assisted by the ERB. But, Soldiers who have issues that cause them to be unable to go on deployment may stem from troubled units, and issues beyond the uniform. There may be instances of 'skipping' or 'ducking', but they are so rare that it makes me laugh. I've seen a former General's daughter deploy twice, and other Soldiers disappointed that they did not make the battle roster. Just because a Soldier may have a 'slick sleeve' does not equate a problem Soldier.

I couldn't agree more. If you can't deploy you are of no use to the military.

SFC Thomas,

I really hope you have a specific group in mind, like legitimate malingerers. Because some folks actually go through MEBs and take P3 profiles in order to continue contributing to this great nation, not to mention WTU Soldiers.


I have a permanent profile for my right knee; it imploded during a run, got cadaver replacement. I've deployed four times, most recently OEF in 2012 attached to a recon scout platoon. However, since I have a P2 profile, I can never be a Drill Sergeant, which I consider my dream job. Does that make me a bad NCO, that although I can deploy I'm not good enough create the Army's future junior ranks?

why stop at booting out the people who are non-deployable? how about those with low PT scores? they obviously aren't pulling their own weight and will only slow a unit down when deployed to war. Anyone who gets UCMJ action against them should be booted as well, obviously they lack discipline and have no place in the Military. Anyone who fails a NCOES school should be shown the door too, if they cant pass the schools they don't deserve to be in, show them the door as well. Anyone late to a formation, get them out! If your late in a warzone someone could be dead from it, get them out of the ARMY! (this was written with great sarcasm)

Not trying to stir the pot too much more here, but according to your profile, you deployed once from 2009-2010. Why do you think that validity of service is directly correlated to downrange time if you've only been able to manage one year of deployment time since 1995?

This cannot be a blanket policy that covers everyone. It has to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Most soldiers don't become non-deployable on purpose. If something happened to them while serving that MADE them non-deployable they deserve other options. If they are good soldiers with good records, there are jobs they can be re-trained in where they can still serve without deploying, and they deserve that option. If you are willing to kick one of your brothers or sisters to the curb because they became damaged while serving their country, YOU don't understand what it is to be a soldier and YOU are probably the one that needs to go. The military is a very large and complicated machine with many parts, and not ALL of those parts need to actually be in a combat zone!

This is a very important issue but it should not be treated with a 'black or white' solution. Every case must be treated on its own merit. Their non-deployability does not prevent them from functioning in other areas. Yes the Army is all about training and implementing what we do in training on the battle field. If they cannot deploy to be in theater but still able to perform on their daily individual tasks, it goes to support the efforts of those on the front lines; that is what they called 'The War Effort' during World War II. It is the totality of various individuals doing their respective bits to ensure victory for all. They may not be deployable but if they are efficient in what they do...or what they get assigned to do, their efforts must be recognized. I have deployed two times and I can say there were some that were deployable but were not efficient in anything and were still able to pass the board and got promoted...Memorizing and spewing the memorized stuff...meanwhile, the colleague at the rear...the non-deployable was doing marvelously at his duties and got promoted. If you asked me, I would say the non-deploable fellow earned his rank. He worked for it. Some of the non-deployable statuses are of no fault of those SMs. It is just the way it is. Non-deployable status SHOULD not prevent anyone from being promoted, provided they meet all other requirements and earn their rank on merit. That's my take on this.

If you’re non-deployable you should either be chaptered or reclassed to noncombat arms MOS, based on your commander's decision. And yes, if there is a reason that you are non-deployable then you probably aren’t much use to the Army.

It’s kinda like being a surgeon and you’re a great doctor except you can’t perform surgery. You need to find a different area of medicine to practice same thing with non-deployable troops.

That’s generally true if you’re nondeployable because you’re on profile or you’ve been flagged your subject to non-favorable action anyhow for awards, promotion, etc. The big one is you can’t relist unless you have a permanent profile and a waiver.

Chapter packet?

That's what you do when you fail a PT test. Certainly, if you are non-deployable, the MEB or other process that is required should be followed, and that soldier should exit the service.

But let's be careful what terms we use.

Just feel like rooting my own horn lol.

I understand where you are coming from as I was a Chief in the Navy and have seen this situation. Unfortunately my son (Cav Scout E3) has fallen into this situation and he is sick about it, but there is nothing he can do. He has had a 5 stage spinal fusion and is basically a poster child for healing, He madly wants to deploy and defend his country. Instead the recommendation from his spinal surgeon is to retain him, make him change his MOS, but not allow him to deploy. He has returned to too good of health for them to discharge but are unwilling to let him do what he desires and deploy. They are afraid that if he gets hurt it would be more difficult to fix him.. doctors words in layman terms....... So now that he is not allowed to get out and not allowed to deploy although he desires it, Should he never be allowed to advance........ I think not.....that would be Bullshit. He is still a soldier albeit in rear detachment.

I disagree with this. There are a number of soldiers that may be non deployable due to previous tours. They may have been injured or developed a sickness either while or tour, or even when stateside. To punish those who can otherwise perform their assigned job would be like a misuse of "government property". Yes, it is important to be physically fit to fight...but to say that a Soldier shouldn't be able to compete for promotion is a bit far. And let's not forget, there are positions that these non deployed can fill...and what about rear d. Rear d is no cake walk.
Also, maybe a Soldier can't deploy now, but that doesn't mean that they cannot reach you something about being downrange. Don't judge a book by its cover. Chances are, there is more to the story than the picture you see. Just my humble opinion.

I can understand where you are coming from In this topic however, let me throw a question at you. Say "you" have served for 16 going on 17 years and then get selected for the SFC list just prior to your 7th deployment (two of which you danced very close to death) You arrive at your deployed assignment location with the mental and physical ability(or so you thought) fired up and ready to complete any and every mission tossed your way. Then one morning you wake up unable to see out of your left eye....you go to roll 1 who examine you, they send you to roll 2, they examine you and waste no time firing up a Blackhawk to Evac you to Baghdad. You arrive in Baghdad where you are then sent to Landstuhl German to be told that you have an inflamed and torn optic nerve assoisiate with Multiple Sclerosis. What rolls through your head..."Your a 7 time combat veteran...how can this happen?, My family...what will happen, I was just selected for promotion" These things did happen to me and I'm still sitting here in Landstuhl German awaiting to be sent to San Antonio for more treatment....this after I've been told that I cant go back and be with my shop (NCOIC BTW) and that I will be Nondeployable. So basically what your saying is...this is my fault and a 7 time deployer shouldnt be considered for promotion and kicked out of the Army? Yeah...well I didn't come this far and sacrifice that much to give up and lay down just because there are people like you that feel I'm worthless. Ive had a shining career and held some very rewarding positions in my time and I can still be a great asset to the Army.

I myself got injured in line of duty with a broken hip that the Army refused to fix causing me to become disabled and have a permanent profile. Instead of just releasing me from service, I was moved to HHC Company and assigned to the Battalion PAC. I was given three to four sections that I was soulfully responsible for though I had no training for these positions. However I ended up revitalizing all of them to fully functional section that had not been in proper operating service for better than a year. I took the Battalion Awards to where only one to two medals a year were being issued to troops who by the AR's were qualified to be awarded.. The PAC, had a computer that no one except the civilian female and I working in that office knew how to operate even though they had gone through their required AIT, so that they would know their job! They didn't. I was also given the NEO NCO position as it wasn't even being done at all. For those unaware of what that job is, it's the Coordinator of deploying all local dependents back to the states in the event of War. I was also the Battalion Adjudants assistant. Needless to say that though I was going through my medical boards for being medically discharged from active service, which took two years, I was still able to provide a function that helped all the soldiers in my Battalion. Soldiers who were just receiving certificates for things that medals were made for were now receiving them. The families finally knew what was expected of them in case of emergency and I helped train troops working in the PAC, how to preform some of their everyday jobs to exclude filling in request forms from soldiers who needed help at Finance, JAG, or to have their ID's replaced. Then when my orders came to PCS back to the states for final processing, which took a year, I worked as The SDNCO for the Third Brigade of the 9th ID. I worked a 24 hour shift and two days off. I worked for Gen. Mc Caffrey. So though one gets injured doesn't mean they should be kicked to the curb. To many good men and women are lost this way. My being a Staff Sergeant, at my last medical board was asked to stay in and they would reclassify me with a different MOS, and promised to promote me to SFC. I knew that they had no power to promote me as after E6, your promotions come from DOA. They definitely could have given me an up on it due to who I was working for and the pull that the Officers and Senior NCO's that were on my board had being they were all in high ranking potions. So to say that soldiers who are with disabilities due to their job in line of the same, isn't fair to that soldier. They can always be given the choice to do something that doesn't require combat. Not every soldier in the military goes to a war zone during conflicts. But if they remain in the same MOS and are combat soldiers, then one of two things should take place if they are a soldier in good standing. That being offered a new MOS, or being medically discharged.

Good morning. Your opinion is very broad. You begin by addressing a personal opinion about deployability and end with not going to FTX's. Speaking from past experiences and three deployments, I know of a number of things that are worse than seeing my unit go off to war or the field and not being able to join them.

I am non-deployable due to medical conditions beyond my control. I have gone through two spine surgeries including a fusion, and two knee surgeries within the last 18-20 months. BLUF: My career is over and I know it. As a permanently injured NCO, I understand that my time is done. I do not believe that my beloved Army deserves to have another Soldier holding up a promotion or only halfass leading his Squad in the field due to the previously mentioned issues. Army's first and foremost job is protect the nation. Now that I am no longer able to fulfill my obligations, it's time for me to go. There's no reason to be upset over the E-7's statements. If we cannot deploy (barring temporary problems), then we are no longer needed.

Signed,
A SQD LDR