Posted on Nov 3, 2020
Is calling a MSG in the Army “Top” appropriate or only exclusively used for a 1SG?
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For my own curiosity in Army culture, is it appropriate to call a MSG “Top”? I know the phrase refers to the senior ranked enlisted person (1SG) responsible for a Company or Battery, but say there was a Joint Task Force with the highest enlisted rank was an Army MSG. Can they be called “Top”?
Rank
MSG
1SG
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 63
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I didn’t mind it but I served under a 1st Sgt that hated it. He would get in your face and say “Do I look like I spin in my head? Don’t you ever call me Top, I am a 1st Sgt”. I thought to myself damn lighten up would you. I’ve always called my 1st Sgt “Top”. Felt sorry for the PFC. but the rest of the company learned quickly not to call him Top.
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MSG Bobby Dean
Top is a term used out of respect by subordinates in a unit he served in. I still to this day have soldiers at the gate on Benning call me "Top" when i enter the check point. So i dont mind it at all. I guess what your perspective is of your unit and how much of a douche you want to be. I always say Go in strong and loud to set the standard then back off a little. It is easier to back off of a standard set than trying to go strong on soft standards.
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1SG Stephen Dalton
I think it an honor to be called Top. I was a First Sergeant in 2002, then worked in S-3 as a MSG for five years, many still called me Top even my LTC and CSM. Then I was a 1SG again for my final year in the Army. If you get all whacko because someone calls you Top, consider that they probably meant it as a compliment and the problem is yours. One time as a SSG, I was walking late in the evening, and couldn't see the guys collar very clearly as he walked toward me, but I knew there were a lot of stripes and a diamond or a star. I said, "Good evening, Top!" He said, "It's been years since I was a GD 1SG. But you know what Sergeant? It was one of the best jobs I ever had, and it still makes me feel good to be called Top because I know it is meant as respectful. Thank you, Sergeant!" But technically, the top enlisted man in the Army is a SGM/CSM.
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1SG Eddie Jones
I had them call me 1SG or Top, It all meant the same to me. My people always showed me respect and I showed it to them. Since I retired, if I see them they will call me Top or 1SG.
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First Sergeants only, but I would say that it is a very informal term of address and many First Sergeants don't like it.
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LTC (Join to see)
It has been my experience that if the troops like/respect him they are more likely to refer to a 1SG as "Top". If he's a douche nugget they are more formal.
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SSG Jeff Furgerson
Agreed 1SG Healy, it is probably not a good idea to assume it is ok to call a 1SG , top, I seen in one instance where a soldier did it and the 1SG’s response was doing I like I spin young man lol
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This definitely varies by unit. I've only seen top used in support companies and never in combat arms units, particularly airborne combat arms units.
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MSG Felipe De Leon Brown
Special Forces is a combat arms unit. The senior enlisted of a SFOD–A is a Master Sergeant and almost always referred to or addressed as "Top". The SFOD–B is a SF Company and the senior enlisted is a SGM.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG Felipe De Leon Brown an A team Team SGT is a platoon level billet. While the SF Company NCOIC is a SGM, that's a company level billet. The BN OIC is still a LTC and the BN NCOIC is a CSM.
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MSG Felipe De Leon Brown
SFC (Join to see) -
I'm going to have to disagree with you on your notion of an SFODA Opns Sgt being a platoon level billet. I viewed your profile and I noticed that you didn't list having attended the SFQC. I don't know where you acquired your information but it does not click with what I experienced in the years that I served in SF. The organization that SF now has dates from 1972. We had no "Battalions" in our TOE before then. A typical full-strength SF "Company" before 1972 consisted of a Hq Det., Four (4) SFOD-Bs and 24 SFOD-As and attachments (e.g., Signal Platoon, MI Det., etc.) just as a separate "Battalion" does now. The SFODA Tm Sgt has ALWAYS been on the level of a Bn SGM.
Special Forces is the epitome of a force multiplier. As such, one SFODA can train, equip and advise a Bn of infantry soldiers. Most 18Z50s, I believe, would and should take umbrage with anyone who has the notion that his billet is a platoon level billet. BTW, I advised and led platoons as a SP4 and SGT in Viet Nam. Once I was promoted to SGT, I led platoons and companies on combat operations. How many conventional infantry E-4s, E-5s or E-6s can say that?
SGT Robert Pryor
I'm going to have to disagree with you on your notion of an SFODA Opns Sgt being a platoon level billet. I viewed your profile and I noticed that you didn't list having attended the SFQC. I don't know where you acquired your information but it does not click with what I experienced in the years that I served in SF. The organization that SF now has dates from 1972. We had no "Battalions" in our TOE before then. A typical full-strength SF "Company" before 1972 consisted of a Hq Det., Four (4) SFOD-Bs and 24 SFOD-As and attachments (e.g., Signal Platoon, MI Det., etc.) just as a separate "Battalion" does now. The SFODA Tm Sgt has ALWAYS been on the level of a Bn SGM.
Special Forces is the epitome of a force multiplier. As such, one SFODA can train, equip and advise a Bn of infantry soldiers. Most 18Z50s, I believe, would and should take umbrage with anyone who has the notion that his billet is a platoon level billet. BTW, I advised and led platoons as a SP4 and SGT in Viet Nam. Once I was promoted to SGT, I led platoons and companies on combat operations. How many conventional infantry E-4s, E-5s or E-6s can say that?
SGT Robert Pryor
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A master sergeant is called sergeant; a first sergeant is called first sergeant. That's all one need know! Lol
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen F. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SPC Woody Bullard CPL Dave Hoover SFC William Farrell Lt Col Charlie Brown Col Carl Whicker SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SPC Margaret Higgins SGT Robert Pryor SGT Jim Arnold Maj William W. 'Bill' Price PO1 Tony Holland SGT John " Mac " McConnell LTC Wayne Brandon PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SPC Douglas Bolton PVT Mark Zehner
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen F. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SPC Woody Bullard CPL Dave Hoover SFC William Farrell Lt Col Charlie Brown Col Carl Whicker SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SPC Margaret Higgins SGT Robert Pryor SGT Jim Arnold Maj William W. 'Bill' Price PO1 Tony Holland SGT John " Mac " McConnell LTC Wayne Brandon PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SPC Douglas Bolton PVT Mark Zehner
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MSG Reid Zohfeld
You are correct about MSG being called SGT But I am old school And it worked like this If you needed something and thought you can come into my AO and just start a conversation with SGT Well that will not get you to far Just Saying
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When I was a 1SG my guys would call me top to grind my gears. It’s for sure a term used for 1SGs outside the infantry world. BLUF DO NOT call me top or I’ll call you bottom.
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SGT Christopher Hayden
1SG (Join to see) - Typical POG response, assuming that everyone in the Infantry scored poorly on the ASVAB, which isn't true.
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1SG (Join to see)
SGT Christopher Hayden typical grunt response. I scored high but I'm such an alpha and think I'm so much more superior I went into combat arms. Not everyone can do the big brain jobs bud.
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I have seen some former 1SG's referred to it by people who had worked for them after they changed over from a Leadership position to a staff position.
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Nick names for particular ranks will always be left up to the individual. Each respective branch has their own variations but the basic rule is to not call them that if you don't know them or know their stance on it. Quick way to a butt chewing if you get too friendly with the wrong guy. In the Corps Top is reserved specifically for MSgts. But Marines do get a kick when a sassy Solider rolls into the AO and has the balls to call a GySgt or SSgt by Sarge or Sgt. Or when a 1stSgt is referred to as Top. That is comedy gold.
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
Let's be honest... It doesn't take highbrow humour to get Marines to giggle... I'm just saying. *shrug*
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At the Commissary meat counter was posted numerous signs which read:
E5 Brains-- $.75 a pound
E6 Brains-- $1.25 a pound
E7 Brains-- $4.75 a pound
E8 Brains-- $8.50 a pound
E9 Brains-- $25.00 a pound
The young E2 asked the Butcher behind the counter why the E9’s brains were so expensive.
The answer was: Do you know how many E9s it takes to get a pound of brains.
Some people will think this is funny; however, some senior enlisted and officers will be offended. Many of them are the ones who want to be called “Supreme Being”.
Stay with the rank and the last name for it is safer.
E5 Brains-- $.75 a pound
E6 Brains-- $1.25 a pound
E7 Brains-- $4.75 a pound
E8 Brains-- $8.50 a pound
E9 Brains-- $25.00 a pound
The young E2 asked the Butcher behind the counter why the E9’s brains were so expensive.
The answer was: Do you know how many E9s it takes to get a pound of brains.
Some people will think this is funny; however, some senior enlisted and officers will be offended. Many of them are the ones who want to be called “Supreme Being”.
Stay with the rank and the last name for it is safer.
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It depends on the unit, the commander, and the 1SG. When I had my company command in an aviation assault company (UH-1) I had a SFC for a First Sergeant. I called him Top. The Warrant Officers called him Top. He was the senior enlisted man in the unit therefore Top. When I was an infantry platoon leader in the 82nd airborne we did not call the 1SG Top.
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SGT (Join to see)
It has been my experience that you never call a First Sergeant Top! At no time did I ever see a combat arms unit call a First Sergeant Top. Some support units did that, but that was rare in an infantry division. MAJ Matthew Arnold
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As a retired master sergeant, I defer that appellation to a first sergeant. My experience is that I was a Battalion S-3 NCO, and I am proud to have filled that position. E-8 is E-8, but the rank devices apply to Master Sergeant and First Sergeant. I think "Top" belongs to a First Sergeant. It's unofficial, I'm sure, but if you call me Top, and some have, I certainly take no offense.
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SGT (Join to see)
When I was stationed in Germany in an Infantry Division, every platoon sergeant in my battalion was a MSG. I don't know if that was common elsewhere, but it sure was in my combat unit in the 87th Regiment.
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MSG Kevin Travis
I don’t recall any lower enlisted calling me top face to face, but a lot of officers have...
I once had a major keep calling me master chief because he liked the sound of it better .
But hey it’s all memories now I belong to the gray card club now
I once had a major keep calling me master chief because he liked the sound of it better .
But hey it’s all memories now I belong to the gray card club now
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We had a MSG in my unit that told us NOT to call him Top. "When you get the diamond, you earn the nick-name". Something to that effect.
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one of my 1SGs later became a Warrant Officer - and everytime I saw CW4 Keister I would loudly say "its my favorite 1SG!" He loved it. On occasion he would be with a Maj or similar who would be furious until chief keister answered "hi John!"
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It simply depends on the culture of the unit. I call any MSG “Sergeant”. No environment I have ever been in have I heard any level of NCOIC (Task Force or otherwise) be called “top”. A task force NCOIC is not the same thing as a 1SG, does not share the same responsibilities, and is not rooted in the same culture as the background of the term “top”. In my *opinion* there’s more to being “top” than being the senior enlisted member of a section.
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Never was around many actual Army 1SG but did serve with several MSG's during my many years of joint assignments. Never heard of a MSG being referred to as "Top" though I suppose it could have happened. That term was generally used exclusively for the 1SG and ONLY if s/he had stated they didn't mind the term of address.
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Stands for TOP Sergeant in a company - - only the First Sergeant is Called "TOP". At times there have been an MSG and even a few SFC's that were assigned in a First Sergeant's slot - therefore they could be addressed as "TOP". A couple times I was the ranking Sergeant in a company - - was not the "TOP", because I wasn't the Company's First Sergeant.
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My 558th MP Company First Sergeant in Germany did not like any new arriving
MP calling him "Top". After a few months when he got to know you and he did
get to know all of us he felt the "Top" reference to his First Sergeant rank was
OK coming from veteran MP's. He did not like "First Shirt" used by anyone.
MP calling him "Top". After a few months when he got to know you and he did
get to know all of us he felt the "Top" reference to his First Sergeant rank was
OK coming from veteran MP's. He did not like "First Shirt" used by anyone.
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I've heard the term First Shirt and Top but usually only when talking about them, not to addressing them in person. As an Air Force First Sergeant at one point the only one I ever heard address Me as top was an Army Troop, I'm not bothered by it but never used that term or First Shirt Myself in addressing a First Sergeant and don't intend to either.
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Depends, I guess. I never referred to any 1SG as top. I hear it more in the Reserves, but still I never refer to a 1SG as top.
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