Posted on Jun 27, 2015
Millions of Americans still embrace the Confederate flag. Should we dismiss them all as racists?
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After the horrific, racially motivated massacre last week of nine black Bible study participants at a church in Charleston, South Carolina, there has been a righteous rush to remove the Confederate flag from government property and the goods of many national retailers. And it seems we've reached a landmark tipping point: After decades of defending the Confederate flag, many conservative lawmakers have publicly and aggressively joined the fight against this longtime symbol of the South.
However, there are still millions of Americans in the South who (probably quietly, these days) remain deeply invested in the Confederate flag. I am not one of them. But I do believe their concerns and beliefs are worth considering without dismissing them wholesale as a bunch of backwards racists, as much of the American left seems eager to do.
Some defenders of the flag worry about a slippery slope. They oppose its removal from state capitols and insignias because they think there's no logical stopping point.
First came the calls to take down the Confederate flags flying over state property. Then Virginia moved to scrap a small license plate program for the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Before long, private companies said they would discontinue selling Confederate-themed products. Now everything from roads to statutes commemorating Confederate figures could wind up on the chopping block.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/millions-of-americans-still-embrace-the-confederate-flag-dont-dismiss-them-all-as-racists/ar-AAc9zqW
However, there are still millions of Americans in the South who (probably quietly, these days) remain deeply invested in the Confederate flag. I am not one of them. But I do believe their concerns and beliefs are worth considering without dismissing them wholesale as a bunch of backwards racists, as much of the American left seems eager to do.
Some defenders of the flag worry about a slippery slope. They oppose its removal from state capitols and insignias because they think there's no logical stopping point.
First came the calls to take down the Confederate flags flying over state property. Then Virginia moved to scrap a small license plate program for the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Before long, private companies said they would discontinue selling Confederate-themed products. Now everything from roads to statutes commemorating Confederate figures could wind up on the chopping block.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/millions-of-americans-still-embrace-the-confederate-flag-dont-dismiss-them-all-as-racists/ar-AAc9zqW
Confederate Flag
Political Correctness
Military History
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 89
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This is so pathetic, I just cringe at the thought. This is not only Media driven, but it's racism driven. It is a disturbing reaction to a terrible event in which a totally unrelated object becomes the hated focus of one race, in particular, for reasons, again, which are completely unrelated and unjustifiable. That flag has historical significance, plain and simple. That some individuals and groups have, over the decades, abused it is not the fault of the flag. The word "gay" once meant only happy and carefree. Now, it's meaning has been highjacked. Is that fair? The rainbow has been highjacked. The Nazi swastika is a centuries-old Native American symbol which had much more to do with peace than some maniac in the Twentieth Century.
I'm getting on a soapbox, so I will now climb down and go take a nap!!!
I'm getting on a soapbox, so I will now climb down and go take a nap!!!
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The recent hysteria against anything Confederate is the same sort of thinking that brought on the Dark Ages.
It may be a sign that the American Experiment is coming to an end and the forces of ignorance and oppression are resurgent.
It may be a sign that the American Experiment is coming to an end and the forces of ignorance and oppression are resurgent.
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Capt Seid Waddell
SCPO (Join to see), well said! Also, spinning one's wheels attacking symbols keeps us from making productive headway against real problems that are within our power to fix. Any efforts focusing upon skin color are bound to fail; we need to look to changing the cultures that produce the serious failures in our society today rather than re-chewing cud that is 150 years old and has been chewed to death already.
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SN Earl Robinson
Here's the thing. How many whites have been beaten, lynched, or murdered by any of the institutions you site? The CBF represents the same things to black Americans as the Swastica does to those of Jewish heritage and the same as the rising sun flag would mean to those who had atrocities perpetrated on them during the Batan death march or in Japanese prisoner of war camps. There's one difference to those historic events. Jews were under nazi Germany's rule for approximately 13 years and the Americans endured Japanese atrocities for 3 years and 8 months. Black Americans have endured this symbol of hatred for 155 years. Black Americans have to look at this symbol on news programs, television programs, motion pictures and even worse above state capitals. If white Americans want to have these flags and statues of traitors, fly the flags over confederate grave yards where they belong. If white Americans want to see statues of these traitors put them in confederate cemeteries also to be surrounded by the men they led to their deaths. We do not a Have a single statue of Benedict Arnold in our country. What makes Robert E Lee or Stonewall Jackson any different than Benedict Arnold. They are all traitors. We have freedom of speech so fly them over your home if you like. But for these symbols of hate to be seen on public lands and buildings is a disease that we as Americans need to rid ourselves of.
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Capt Seid Waddell
SN Earl Robinson, "We do not a Have a single statue of Benedict Arnold in our country."
Actually, this is not true.
http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/boot-monument
Actually, this is not true.
http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/boot-monument
A monument to the military service of America's greatest traitor refuses to even name him.
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SN Earl Robinson
Capt Waddell if you read the caption you'll notice that his name is not shown on the relief. So it is no monument to the man it is only an acknowledgment of what he did do for our country. Compare that to 12 statutes and 3 buildings named after the traitor robert e lee. Put his statues and his reliefs in confederate graveyards as a monument to traitors. Truth be told all of the confederate statues should be melted down and dropped in the laurentian abyssal. Never to be seen again. But that's just one mans opinion.
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PFC Robert Falk
I am proud to fly the flag. If anyone wants to call me a racist they better know me FIRST.
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Confederate Flags Crash Nascar’s Plan for a Homecoming ...
Throwback paint schemes on racecars and retro logos and signs welcomed Nascar fans when they arrived at Darlington Raceway this weekend for the Bojangles’ Southern 500 Sprint Cup race. The marketing campaign was designed to make one of the most storied tracks on the circuit look like the early 1970s all over again.
Fans were more than happy to complete the picture, much to Nascar’s dismay. The Confederate flags they raised on R.V.s across the infield and outside the track dotted the sky above Darlington on Friday morning, as they have for decades here. The Southern 500, after all, was long known for playing “Dixie” as its anthem and used to feature a character named Johnny Reb — a man dressed as a Confederate soldier who stood atop the winning car with a rebel flag.
Read more at ...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/motorsports/confederate-flags-crash-nascar%e2%80%99s-plan-for-a-homecoming/ar-AAdZsVc
Throwback paint schemes on racecars and retro logos and signs welcomed Nascar fans when they arrived at Darlington Raceway this weekend for the Bojangles’ Southern 500 Sprint Cup race. The marketing campaign was designed to make one of the most storied tracks on the circuit look like the early 1970s all over again.
Fans were more than happy to complete the picture, much to Nascar’s dismay. The Confederate flags they raised on R.V.s across the infield and outside the track dotted the sky above Darlington on Friday morning, as they have for decades here. The Southern 500, after all, was long known for playing “Dixie” as its anthem and used to feature a character named Johnny Reb — a man dressed as a Confederate soldier who stood atop the winning car with a rebel flag.
Read more at ...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/motorsports/confederate-flags-crash-nascar%e2%80%99s-plan-for-a-homecoming/ar-AAdZsVc
Confederate Flags Crash Nascar’s Plan for a Homecoming
Nascar, so closely associated with its Southern roots, continues to struggle in trying to broaden its appeal nationally without alienating its base.
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CWO2 Shelby DuBois
New Orleans Mayor...who started this anti-statue movement ... is upset that Mardi Gras Krewe Captains are going to have Confederate Flag and Remember Robt E Lee throws this year. He can't control them and it's killing him.
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I personally do not find those who honor, and fly the Confederate flag to be racist, however I do find the flag itself to be racist. In my opinion a flag is only as good as the entity for which it represents, and unfortunately for those who support the Confederate flag the entity which it represents died in 1865. Even those who say it represented the Confederate Army, even more specifically the Army of Northern Virginia fail to recognize the thousands of free black men and women who were torn from their homes by this very Army in Pennsylvania and sent on a death march into Texas to be re-enslaved. If anything I am most tired with hearing those who defend this flag screech that others should read a history book when they so obviously do not understand the history of the flag that they protect.
Again I would like to reiterate I know many people who support the Confederate flag all of those who disagree with me are completely kind and decent people whom wish harm upon nobody and I genuinely believe do not hold any prejudice against anybody according to their race. Unfortunately, these individuals feel that the Confederate battle flag has a certain meaning to them, unfortunately the meaning of a flag is neither universally recognized, or a private matter. When you display a flag you're saying that you consent to, and are proud of the actions taken under that flag in a public manner.
With this being said is completely acceptable to bring up the issue that many atrocities, or regrettable events have been perpetuated or committed under the United States flag. However the United States is a living entity, and while it has its share of black eyes including the blackeye of slavery it also stands for the abolition of that same institution. While during World War II it interned Japanese Americans it also provided restitution at a certain point, and attempted to atone. This is in direct contrast to the Confederate flag which no longer represents a living entity, and as a result has not made any effort to atone, recognize, or show any real utility in modern society except show that the divisiveness of 1861 still has supporters.
Personally if I had to find a solution for the issue in South Carolina I would suggest that they simply place an American flag over the Confederate flag, while this would recognize the side that those soldiers fought for it would also recognize the supremacy of our unity (I would also make it possible for the flag to be lowered to half-mast, I don't care which side you agree with if the American flag is at half-mast all flag should be at half-mast.).
Again I would like to reiterate I know many people who support the Confederate flag all of those who disagree with me are completely kind and decent people whom wish harm upon nobody and I genuinely believe do not hold any prejudice against anybody according to their race. Unfortunately, these individuals feel that the Confederate battle flag has a certain meaning to them, unfortunately the meaning of a flag is neither universally recognized, or a private matter. When you display a flag you're saying that you consent to, and are proud of the actions taken under that flag in a public manner.
With this being said is completely acceptable to bring up the issue that many atrocities, or regrettable events have been perpetuated or committed under the United States flag. However the United States is a living entity, and while it has its share of black eyes including the blackeye of slavery it also stands for the abolition of that same institution. While during World War II it interned Japanese Americans it also provided restitution at a certain point, and attempted to atone. This is in direct contrast to the Confederate flag which no longer represents a living entity, and as a result has not made any effort to atone, recognize, or show any real utility in modern society except show that the divisiveness of 1861 still has supporters.
Personally if I had to find a solution for the issue in South Carolina I would suggest that they simply place an American flag over the Confederate flag, while this would recognize the side that those soldiers fought for it would also recognize the supremacy of our unity (I would also make it possible for the flag to be lowered to half-mast, I don't care which side you agree with if the American flag is at half-mast all flag should be at half-mast.).
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PFC Robert Falk
One problem "old glory" is the flag under which the slaves was first came here. The first slave owner was a BLACK man. there was FREE black men that fought for the southern army. There was white slaves that was under all the flags world wide. And what about the Native tribes that was made into slaves by "old glory"? If the flag is racist then so is the Christian faith, the southern battle flag"rebel" is made with the cross of St. Andrew's Cross.
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PFC Robert Falk
The "Stars and Bars" was also criticized on ideological grounds for its resemblance to the U.S. flag, which many Confederates disliked, seeing it as symbolizing centralized federal power over states' rights, increased taxation, and abolitionism and emancipation, all of which which the government of the Confederacy were officially opposed to as a matter of policy.The "Saint Andrew's Cross" (also used on the flag of Scotland as a white saltire on a blue field), had no special place in Southern iconography at the time, and if Miles had not been eager to conciliate the Southern Jews his flag would have used the traditional upright,In a national survey in 2015 across all races, 57% of Americans had the opinion that the second Confederate Navy Jack represented Southern pride rather than racism. A similar poll in 2000 had a nearly identical result of 59%. However, poll results from only the South yielded a completely different result - 75% of Southern whites described the flag as a symbol of pride, while 75% of Southern blacks said the flag represented racism. AND MOST OF THOSE WHO FOUGHT NEVER EVEN OWNED A SLAVE.
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Cpl Chris Rice
PFC Robert Falk - When I see the Confederate States of America apologize for their stance on slavery I will accept that it is not a symbol for racism, unfortunately since the CSA no longer exists this will never happen. The US flag still represents a living breathing country. I think I said that in my comment, but I'll repeat myself for the sake a two month old post. MOST NAZIS DIDNT KILL JEWS...ALL CAPS DOESNT MAKE A STUPID POINT SMART!!!!
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Cpl Chris Rice
SSG Richard Reavis - so from my original comment "Again I would like to reiterate I know many people who support the Confederate flag all of those who disagree with me are completely kind and decent people whom wish harm upon nobody and I genuinely believe do not hold any prejudice against anybody according to their race." If you’d either taken the time to read my original comment, or even comprehend it you see that I have not called all people who support the Confederate flag racists.
Further the example that I gave about the Confederate states issuing an apology about slavery was trying to illustrate the fact that the United States can make amends for the things that is done inappropriately in the past, the Confederate states cannot because they died as an individual entity in 1865. I’m not arrogant, I am irritated that people have the passion and the time to write such lengthy responses to what I wrote without having the common courtesy of at least reading what I wrote first.
Further the example that I gave about the Confederate states issuing an apology about slavery was trying to illustrate the fact that the United States can make amends for the things that is done inappropriately in the past, the Confederate states cannot because they died as an individual entity in 1865. I’m not arrogant, I am irritated that people have the passion and the time to write such lengthy responses to what I wrote without having the common courtesy of at least reading what I wrote first.
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Nah. They are Free Speakers! This is just getting ridiculous, from infinity and beyond! GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad
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Sorry ..I watched MSNBC last night.. I thought the new rules were.. Pro Confederate Flag = Racist, Pro Marriage between a man and woman= hater, white male born in the South= hater/bigot/racist. Not for women in combat=sexist. Like Boris and Natasha on Bullwinkle=communist...
The media driven hate machine is pumping on all cylinders.
No right answer... buy into the hype and you lose... ignore it..you lose....
The media driven hate machine is pumping on all cylinders.
No right answer... buy into the hype and you lose... ignore it..you lose....
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Just remember, Civil War military personnel died for their beliefs on both sides. They were all Americans and therefore by definition American Veterans. That flag represents the ideals those men fought for, and oh by the way, it wasn't just about slavery. We should honor their sacrifice as well as anyone else who serves for this country. They died bringing this country together.
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MSG Floyd Williams
It took the Civil War to bring this country together, I agree with CAPT Gary Foster people on both sides had to died. But look what is happening now discontent and division setting us way, I thought the fight was outside of the U.S.
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Leave it to hell alone. It's only racist if one want's it to be. A flag never killed anyone. Next we will ban red and blue colors because of this. Come on, people died fighting for this flag, at least give them the common courtesy to RIP.
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CWO2 Shelby DuBois
We already have American schools banning American flag t shirts as 'insensitive'. Remember the kid last year who was suspended and forbidden from flying his American flag on his pick up truck? This whole Confederate flag flap has been in the corner waiting for an idiot like that shooter to do something so they can mark it off their agenda 'to do' list.
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