On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?

Call her out. This soldier is in a very public location, wearing the same uniform that I wear. You damn well better believe I'll call her out on the spot.

Disrespect for the uniform is disrespect for everyone that serves or has served. Personally I would have tried to find her unit and send it up the chain of command. Im guessing she was just trying to get in for free.

I think it's important that we continue to instill a sense of pride and accomplishment to the junior members in the military. It is an honor to be able to wear that (or any) uniform in public, and it should be treated as such. I would have made a point to correct her in private, just as SMSgt Thomas suggests. I also, however, would have made a point to notify her chain of command so that they are aware of her lack of adherence to regulations as well as her insubordinate behavior.

I agree with you SSG Robinsons with your assessment. As a older Marine Veteran I see the younger generation lack of respect on all avenues but a lot of this comes from there parents and she never respected the uniform in first place before she became a soldier and reflection of the uniform. To me it does not matter what you wear you have to understand what you stand for Army, Marines, etc.. it does not matter which service but the character of the body that inside it.

SSG Robinson,
I might disagree with how you handled the situation, but you knowing that you could have handled the situation different is why I love wearing the uniform. With that being said I have been in your situation before. The best situation I can recall came when I was an NCO. I made an on the spot correction while I was out of uniform and identified myself as an NCO and the Soldier rolled his eyes and laughed. I handed him my ID card and said I want you to make sure you understand who your talking to(all said in a calm voice and for anyone who knows me it was very difficult to do). Soldier was with some friends and not sure if they were Army or not and was trying to save face. I said if your so big and bad what is your name and let me see your ID card if you don't give it to me I am calling post staff duty and I will physically hold you in place and have you placed in confinement for dis obeying an order. (Soldier had no idea I was pulling all of that out of my A**)Soldier showed me the ID card and he was an E4. I went home typed him in AKO contacted the unit 1SG explained the situation and she asked me if I wouldn't mind coming by the unit. With all of that being said the Soldier was reprimanded for his actions. I tell you all of this to tell you to stay engaged! You may have to remove yourself from the situation but there are still other ways to make corrections even if they are not done on the spot. When that Soldier saw me monday afternoon next to his 1SG the look of panic was priceless. Get the name and follow up with the unit, use AKO use social media. I am not saying be an internet stalker, but find out who they belong too is not hard.

Look, I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone on this entirely too long of a thread on how a nasty soldier does whatever she wants..... well here it goes. If a career service member has to take to the internet to seek advice on how to properly uphold military traditions then maybe that individual need not wear the uniform any longer. We as leaders can blame the X-Box generation all day long for the disrespect and do what I want attitude but we have been entrusted to take control of the situation and mold leaders of the future, regardless of the environment. It is obvious to me that this young SPC has had weak leadership and has been allowed to think that she can get away with it. So, maybe this thread should more about the lack of intestinal fortitude to handle a subordinate rather than the female soldier.

Old NCO of mine had a favorite saying. "If you fail to make an on the spot correction, you just created a new standard"

Can't correct stupid ! And when she rolled her eyes you knew you were in an uphill battle because she has never had a real NCO jump in her 4th point of contact!

I think that's the problem with leaders today. First, you are a soldier 24/7, but never more so then when wearing your uniform in public. Especially state side. Any soldier should understand that, any it is your responsibility as a leader to ensure that happens. The simple discipline to wear a uniform properly when in public, as a representation of your unit and the military, is not a hard thing to accomplish, especially in this case. Second, correcting a soldier does not have to be an embarrassing ordeal for anyone. A simple you need to fix yourself will usually work. If it doesnt, the you ask for their 1SG. There are plenty of ways to get the job done, but doing nothing because you are afraid of a little confrontation is probably worse than her being out of uniform at the movies.

Start by saying I'm Sgt _____\ I need a word with you for a second please show her you ID and say when you are in uniform you represent the entire US armed forces, the nations finest you must always represent your self in a military manor even if you think no one is watching. There are veterans all around you all the time that wore that uniform before you and they would never disrespect there uniform. 2) regulation aren't suggestions they are standards that must be adhired to. 3) when off duty she shouldn't have been wearing her uniform to a movie theater in the first place. 4) I would have asked for her unit and found out her 1sg emailed the photo of the soldier and described the attitude given also.
NCO Backbone!!! Enforce the standard!!!

As a fellow troop, NCO or not, you exercised your general military autority. Whether or not that soldier did her part to respect that she was wrong is out of your control. Many SMs tend to believe that if you are not in their COC, that they don't have to listen to another, or that if they are off base or after hours, rules only minimally apply. You can only do your part. To be a great leader, you must first learn to follow. I can assure you that SPC Ware will be a SPC or below for many years to come. Good job removing yourself from a lose/lose situation.

****Although, pulling her to the side may have put her defenses at ease.

Make sure that you are right first. Being a dirtbag to a dirtbag is not appropriate behavior. Set the example for others to follow. Lead the way for corrective behavior in a positive manner. Help them on their journey.

We are soldiers 24/7/365! On the spot corrections are appropriate anytime, everywhere in public. This is about respect to your fellow service members and the country we represent. The key to success is about ensuring that the corrections are done with respect to the individual being corrected, and using the utmost discretion and common sense.

This is why you shouldn't be allowed to wear fatigues in public in the first place. Also, it's absurd that she had the nerve to "roll her eyes". I just would have gotten her information and reported it to whoever is in charge of her. Chances are they wouldn't do anything anyway because if they held her accountable in the first place, she probably wouldn't have been all around garbage in the first place. Anyway, make the correction on the spot, get her information (ask for her ID), in not corrected, report to her command. I believe you have to hold people accountable, up and down, or else the institution will continue to get worse and worse.

You should have identified yourself and asked her to follow you about 10 feet away. If she said no, you could then be a little more forceful in direcing her to 1) fix herself, 2) get her 1SG's name an number, and 3) inform her that her "attitude" is getting in the way of her becoming an NCO one day. Of course, you can do all of the above while retaining your military bearing and professionalism.

I would have asked her to the side, for a moment, and given her the chance to do an on the spot correction. As an NCO, you giving her corrective discipline, would have been a lawful order, providing that you had properly identified yourself. I also would have ascertained her unit, and CO's name, and passed the info on, to the proper chain of command. There is just no excuse! I've been out for 31 years, and still find myself correcting soldiers, in public places. My other pet peeve........the wrongful display of the US flag. (But that's another topic! :)

Your an NCO, on or off duty so correcting her would have been the right thing to do. You as an NCO are held accountable at all times, remember the NCO creed and let it guide you.
I would have had no problem pulling SPC Ware aside and making that correction, she was in public in uniform and she is representing US, and that is a big message!

All great responses below!! The key word here is Tact!! Whenever in an civilian type of environment use discretion and tact. Soldiers are soldiers 24/7/365 remember they also represent who you are and being an NCO let no soldier disrespect the uniform. She had 3 strikes I would've jumped her shit, For one she should not be shopping in uniform, 2 wearing out of regulation and 3 rolling her eyes!! She obviously has a piss poor leadership which she directly reflects. Just remember these young soldiers need guidance. Hell I had plenty of guidance as a troop!!! made me a better soldier!!

You should have asked the individual to come and stand aside after showing your ID card. We have regulations and an appearance to maintain while out in public and in uniform. The post this individual is assigned to should have a memo to the lowest unit, stating, If and when an individual in any of the branches is allowed to wear the uniform off post, most will state directly to their off-post residence, only stopping if in need of fuel. In regards to this so-called NCO, SSG Robert Quayle, who needs to have his CSM seriously question how this individual made SSG in the first place. He is a reflection of what a great NCO Corps has been reduced to with the current administration, I am old school SSG Quayle, I also have four combat tours to Iraq, two to Afghanistan. I see your hands in your pocket and you make the remarks you stated, be prepared for a medical board. I stand for what the NCO Corps was and I was never relieved of that oath.

I think, no I know the correct answer is to 1st introduce myself and do an on the spot correction without intimidating her or causing a scene. By the picture it seems she is waiting to enter the movie so time plays a role here. Lets not forget the army values here and before anyone states or restates concern for pissing her off or her civilian friend interfering, Personal Courage is on the list. If she appears this way in public then the question is what other area of the army values does she piss on? What does the way she carry herself say about her leadership?

When I am out in public and see young soldiers in uniform I automatically do a quick head to toe scan. It comes from my time as a drill sergeant. When I see something out of place I get this look on my face. My wife knows it instantly and usually asks if I really have to. She already knows the answer. I will always attempt to approach the individual in a calm quiet manner and get their attention. If they are on the move then they have a great chance of getting away because I am not going to yell across the area and I am not going to chase them down. I know I can't catch all the fish but I am responsible for the ones I get a hook into. If I can approach them, then I quietly let them know of the on the spot correction. I usually do not get any back talk or resistance to correcting the problem because I didn't embarrass them or cause them to lose face. Those that do show resistance get asked to step to the side away from their peers. They usually get more agreeable when they are not having to impress someone. I give them a much longer explanation of who I am, how they are wrong, why they are wrong, what needs to be done to fix it and what possible courses of action can be taken should they refuse to correct the issue or continue the unprofessional conduct. Rarely have I had to take a Soldiers name down and contact his unit for professional development. I usually get accurate information from them because I explain that all I need is the name off their ID and I can get the rest of the information from installation operations.
It is not always the easy path and my wife has started to request compensation for the lost of her time but I believe it is easily worth the costs to ensure Soldiers learn that they are Soldiers all of the time.

The answer is that it is appropriate to correct it every time you see it, whenever you see it, however you see it, for the simple fact that you see it. That being said, how the correction is made is what is going to have the lasting impact on that Soldier. The idea that it should be left alone is not something I agree with at all.

This is one of those "Situational Communication" situations. I think you did the right thing by identifying the issue but after she responded negatively, the appropriate thing for you to do is to introduce yourself (name and rank) Hopefully she changes her tune and squares her self away. If the attitude continues then you crush her on the spot and when the police show up you explain the entirety of the situation her chain of command will undoubtedly be notified.

SSG,

I feel for you, That is just one of the many reasons the Marine Corps have the Policy of a Marine out in town wearing a Camouflage Utility uniform and not on their way to or from the base (i.e. on leave or liberty) is unauthorized, And back in my day and now if you look out of regs in your Civilian wear you will get straightened out by fellow Marines. To me as a Marine, No offence the wearing of Utility's out in town looked sloppy and unprofessional. And if said Marine did not un-Fuck him or herself right then, they would be Reported to the Chain of Command. Seems Silly or weird to non Marines but it is all about image and Marines are Anal about the Image we give.

That is a tough spot. Her civilian male acquaintance would very likely have fed her attitude, because since she obviously doesn't care, why should he?
The best thing may be to get her name and unit and let them deal with it....but follow up to see that SOMETHING was done.
She is being paid 24/7, and accruing leave 24/7....she needs to be worthy 24/7.

I'm retired and I get on young troops still. I'll correct them in a nice way. I know I have no authority over them but it will make them aware they are being watched.

A few years ago I .(retired Marine..not an ex)...was passing through Atlanta Airport... On one of the big moving sidewalks going the 10 miles or whatever it was to the next concourse ... saw off in the distance a young Marine going the other way. He was in his green Alpha dress uniform... carrying a duffle bag. As we approached each other going in opposite directions and about 25 yards apart I saw that he was a bit disheveled. His coat was unbuttoned and his coat belt undone and hanging loose. His tie was loosend and top shirt button was undone. I thought.. he might be just off one of those long, boring flights, just back from overseas, maybe heading home for the first time in months.. anxious to see family and friends and not thinking about uniforms and regs.. I sympathaized for about a second..then in my best and loudest Marine voice I belted out " You better square yourself away, Marine!". He didn't hesitate to look around to see where it came from.... he knew it was directed at him.. he dropped everything and in less than 15 seconds he was buttoned up and all of a sudden just another Marine in uniform. People around me just smiled.. the people around him stared at him like 'WTF just happened.".. He'll be more careful in the future.

What I've not heard mentioned is that according to the most recent 670-1 the soldier was in major violation just by being in ACU's to see a movie. The wear of battle dress has been curtailed in public I would suggest keeping up with the changes in the Regs. and ensure the Soldiers have been made aware.

What get's my attention and kind of "Grinds my gears" is her total lack of respect, first and foremost, for herself as a soldier. If you're going to wear the uniform in public, you need to be proud of that uniform, and you need to be proud that you wear it. So wear it right! The general public's perception of you in uniform, reflects on the military as a whole. Yes I would have pulled her to the side for a private conversation, but I would have given her "Both barrels". A block of instruction she wouldn't soon forget!

Today while volunteering, I noticed a female wearing clip-on earrings. It wasn't the clip on that got me, but the fact they were a blue "diamond" color. I pulled her to the side and asked her about the earrings. She pulled out her waiver and it said she was authorized to wear them. Now here was my conundrum. I couldn't verify that the blue was the only color they had and without digging into why she needed the earrings it wasn't my place to dig. But at one point do you also allow the medical waiver but not necessarily the choice of item? Would someone with a waiver to wear sunglasses after LASIK have the nerve to wear bright yellow ones in formation?

You did right by confronting her, but I too would have taken her to the side and had her correct it.

I've done it before and I'll do it again. ESPECIALLY when we are off base. This is when how we present ourselves is how the world perceives us.

I don't know if it's even appropriate to comment here being I'm only a specialist (ARNG) promotable, but I saw a similar situation today while I was out with my girlfriend snowboarding. I saw a kid in full ACUs with no tags and no patches. I was urged from my inner army training to say something, but I bit my tongue and drove on. Should I have approached that individual?

The fact that she's doing it is a failure in the part of whoever trained her; she's not the problem. Hold her unit accountable. "Hey soldier, how are you?" "Other than the theater, what is there to do around here?" ...Continue conservation and find out her name and what unit she's in. Attempt to correct her (as you did); if she gives you attitude, give her the lawful order, contact the Duty Officer, and follow up with UCMJ charges as they apply [if needed]. If she's a reservist or N.G; just shake your head and laugh at her; tell her she looks more f****** up than a football bat. Going any further probably wont have any effect.

I was in a situation like this but it was by far worse. I went to a liqueur store after work to pick up a six pack. This is near Ft. Drum. I had stopped by my house first to change, it was a Friday afternoon and I had just finished a 14 hour shift. I was at the time a SGT. I walked in and at the counter was a soldier, later to find out it was a PV2. He was wearing headgear with SGT stripes, without a top. I immediately stopped and walked up to him waited till he was done with his transaction and made the on spot correction after showing him my ID. I was curious to his rank, but I left it alone. He didnt speak as though he was an NCO nore did he have any respect towards me either. He told me to F*** off. I followed him outside where him and his buddies yelled out of their car that if they see me again they were going to beat my A**. I wrote down the license plate, called up my platoon Sergeant. He called the commander and so forth. The following Monday I was pulled into my first sergeants office. I walked in with both my first sergeant and commander with another first sergeant and the three privates i had seen Friday night. My first sergeant asked me if these were the ones I had seen. I told him yes. I was given all three of them for two months. I made them strong, I made them smarter and most importantly I made them have respect. Never worry about what can happen with a soldier, it shows weakness and lack of resolve, always correct on the spot. If they show disrespect or failure to comply with regulations seek out alternative support. In this case I found who they where and what unit they were from. I also agree correct in private, your not there to humiliate.

Attitude or not you make the correction, Soldiers do not learn by avoiding the situation, and as a leader you have to make the correction or you are wrong for not doing it.

How would you as a lower enlisted soldier like to have a PSG that did not correct you, soldiers like that end up in boxes with long handles, because someone didn't give a shit to correct them...

There is never an "inappropriate" time for on-the-spot-corrections. I've had to make corrections in Home Depots, Walmarts, commissaries, etc. Providing a quiet comment to avoid embarrassing the violator is important. Look at it from a developmental aspect, know and understand your regulation. They may role their eyes, but they'll be the better for it.

She rolled her eyes??? ROE would stipulate "Throat Punch is a GO!" NOTHING corrects insubordination as quickly and as effectively as a throat punch. Chivalry is discriminatory. Equal Rights = Equal Throat Punch.

I have done a on-the-spot correction of a lower enlisted before. Both of us were in uniform, and I tried to be nice at first. When said E2 decided he was going to give me lip, I just asked him for his supervisors info and let him/her take care of it.

Dummy tried to give me a fake name, but there are only so many Security Forces out here, and when you're on good terms with their upper enlisted.. well that helps a lot.

Last I heard, he was being made to scrub all the cruisers 3 times a week, and extra pt.

Sadly enough I think that is the minority though.

this is not just an army issue, it across the board. As a retired Marine in California I see many military fashion combinations, most that I attempt to correct are aware of what there doing.Once called on it leave the area or correct the issue. Basic rules to follow. 1. It is your duty and obligation to correct the individual. 2. identify yourself 3. ask for there unit 4. then treat them how you would like to be treated.4a take them off to the side, not the time or place for embarrassment. 4b. put it on them, point out the discrepancy and advise what happens next is on them 4c. Next it a little shakey you can go on your way, or if the individual attitude warrants it call there command and let them no. 5.Remember complacency is as wrong as not correcting the infraction in the first place.6. last remember they are wrong not you, period!

I would have most definately gotten her name, asked where she was stationed, identified myself, make the correction and remind her that she is the image that people will relate to the Army. I wouldn't dramatize anything in public but I certainly would be calling her command post to find out who I could contact to discuss her attitude and her disrespect for the uniform.

ONCE YOU IDENTIFIED WHO YOU WERE, SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PULLED TO THE SIDE, THEN SHE SHOULD HAVE CORRECTED HERSELF. I AM A FORMER MARINE. IF A SUPERIOR APPROACHES YOU AND INFORMS YOU OF A DEFICIENCY, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT, THEY NEED TO COMPLY AND FIX IT OUR DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. SHE WILL DO THIS AGAIN BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T ANY CONSEQUENCES TO HER ACTIONS. SHE MADE THE ARMY LOOK BAD. SHAMEFUL! DO NOT BACK DOWN BECAUSE YOU FEEL SOMEONE IS GOING TO CAUSE A SCENE. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT!

Tanya Faith O'Bannon