Should the Army Height and Weight Standards be revised?

There are several good points here. I have a little bit that I would like to add. 1. Several people mentioned the Commander must.... That is not true. A commander has a lot of discretion if they want to use it. I could do a lot for someone who could run seven minute miles, weighed 240 lbs and was 5'6". I know because I did. 2. I firmly agree a valid PT test should be the standard. Being fit will save your life in real operations and that is what our jobs are (or were) about. Pushups, situps, two mile run for a PT test don't cut it for several reasons. The first is that it is too easy to train for just the PT test. It only tests a few parts of training. It is a good start but lets add pullups - test you against your body weight. Lets test us doing a weight drag or carry for 50 yards. It should maybe be a standard weight since it simulates dragging someone hurt. It is not unfair for smaller people. It tests something that you may need to do. 3. For years we have talked about an MOS specific test for PT, but the answers have always said that it is too hard. I disagree. It would be more fair. It only needs to be one event. It could be a crew drill for a gun crew but something obviously different for the unit clerk. 4. We do the present test because it requires no equipment. In 1976, we did a run, dodge and jump test. It needed equipment. A shuttle run with blocks is similar and only needs a few wooden blocks. The horizontal bars could be replaced by pullups. Anyplace there is a door, you could add a pullup bar.

Yes they should. Before I retired, we had people being taped that were muscular, and could pass their pt test with no problem. It is an antiquated system that does more harm than good.

Not sure I know your angle or rational SGT (Join to see), but I would say Yes.

I paid attention to Height/Weight and PT always, and still do. But, I also saw many large folks, muscular at times who had issues endlessly with 600-9... and then some really fat dudes with really large necks... who did not... We used to joke at the gym, about fat dudes working on their necks vs. their bodies.. One size fits all, does not work, as SFC Stephen King stated.

Yes some people are just built bigger.

Best solution I've seen to this issue is to allow an extra 2-5% body fat based off of your APFT score. So if you score a 75 in each category on the APFT, you get an extra 2% leeway on your body fat score, 80 you get an extra 3%, etc.

I've dealt with the back and forth with taping issues. I wish i could say that i've never been over weight and it was simply a taping error, but I've been on both sides of the equation. I can't tell you how demoralizing it is to have worked your butt off for several months, come in and take an APFT, score 75-90 points in each category, and then miss tape by 1% because somebody "knows" the(ir) "proper" taping procedure and refuses to let anyone do a re tape. And while i applaud the CPT for posting what is supposed to happen with being separated for failure to meet height and weight standards, I've seen several people chaptered out for this, and i can guarantee you that those procedures were not followed.

I'm with the "yes - H&W standards need to be revised" crowd for essentially the same reasons that have been posted already. As well as it's an antiquated (although, not as far as most SM's probably think) system, as the human body continues to evolve.

In 1976, the standards were updated (from the previous update in 1960, which implemented the 5 year age increments) due to "Army personnel were becoming too sedentary and were not maintaining desired levels of physical fitness. Quite simply, the Army leadership felt that there were too many obese soldiers". (Sounds familiar?)

The problem is the human body isn't identical from one to the next. We're all different types of somatotypes - which leads to different body compositions. And the Army's H&W standards really address only one - the mesomorph.

A good (but rather lengthy read) is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK235960/ - which delves into the history of H&W standards for the Army and the rationale for the standards at the time.

I truly think that height and weight standards should be revised. Every nationality does not have the same physical makeup. For instance islanders..they are not small people in general. It needs to be revised or base fitness on fitness tests..

Yes. They should be more strict. I think the Marines have it right.

I like some of you guys are retired. I don't really remember when that water test began to check your body fat, but if I'm not mistaken I was a PFC at the time, and everyone was tested regardless of the service member's height and weight, or your PT score. It was cumbersome and put us behind schedule on training. I do not remember anyone being passed the standards, however, we went through this maybe five or six times per week, and we PT'd like a .... not to mention humping all over God's green Earth, and most found time to hit the weights whenever possible and play on sports leagues. So I agree, they system needs to be revamped. To be clear, I always liked PT with troops, but the body fat test, somebody in Foggy Bottom must have thought that up.

Yes. I have never failed a PT test in my life, but always walk that razor edge on HT/WT. According to weight standards, I usually qualify as "obese" and had a promotion packet delayed a year because l was flagged. But just looking at me, I look up to speed. Even a previous company commander told me all he cared about was passing PT. I get it if you look like Santa wearing ACUs, but if you pass the 'eye test' and pass PT, it shouldn't be an issue. As a 41 year old 73" tall male, I returned from BCT five pounds over max weight. Something needs changed.

I am a former marine and just recently out of the army reserve, i believe if you pass your pt test tape should not matter. I was taped for my whole career

I have a lot of negatives for the Army High and weight standards. First, It counts way too much towards promotion. I have seen many, many incompetent and or incapable people put into leadership positions, who have enough trouble keeping themselves in line, let alone being responsible for others. Often, while more capable and competent soldiers are passed over du to not making points or meeting weight standards. Leadership depends on far more than just how many push ups or sit ups you can do, or how fast you can run. How can a PT test be worth more for promotion than Education, Training, Relevant work experience and performance records?
Yes, without a doubt, fitness is important. But as mentioned in many of these postings, GOOD and CAPABLE soldiers are put out to pasture due to their weight, without regard to their importance to unit or mission. I have seen many hard working soldiers passed over for awards or promotions, just by where their percentages lay. I have seen units suffer huge capability losses due to weight control pushing key solders out. The difference between a good hard working soldier and a SH*T-bag are often determined by a tenth of a percent. Very little effort is made to try to bring these soldier into compliance other than pushing them towards eating disorders and poor moral. I myself worked out daily, when time and mission permitted. I was eating far less that is considered healthy (less than 1000 calories per day). It wasn't until my third try to se a dietician that not eating enough was actually contributing to my weight problem. What is worse, is having to listen to people with no knowledge of healthy weight loss techniques, often having never experienced a weight problem themselves and with poor eating habits of their own.
I rode the line for many years, often seeing up to a 5% weight difference between tape measurements, with no way to dispute the measurements or even be allow to have one of the alternate, more accurate, methods even being considered. Myself and many others suffered through many injuries to try to meet the standards for no recognition.
Even though I might not have been able to run as fast as some of my peers, I more often than not could carry much larger loads over longer distances than most of them. My skills ratings where always at the top of the charts. Yet, I saw many PT studs get promoted, when there were many others more deserving of the position.
So yes, the weight control program needs to massively revamped.
An accurate measurement process needs to be used (Calipers, dunk tank, using more measuring points).
More relevance needs to be pushed towards actual leadership skills and traits than just physical fitness.
More effort needs to be made towards fixing a good soldier rather than just trying to replace him/her with a newer skinnier model. All that experience and training should be worth something.

Yes! The "tape test" that is still used today has been vetted by multiple universities and health facilities and had been proven to be the least accurate way of measuring a person's body fat.

There needs to be a weight limit. I have noticed, that the higher the rank, the bigger the waist

Sure, just enforcement of it in the ranks is a bigger problem. During deployments and memes you see online there are a lot of very out of regulation people in the Army. Now not as tight in some areas, because I was always on the program but passed tape even with a small neck.

Quality soldiers are let out because of a couple inches or pounds while below average soldiers are allowed to stay in because of being under the standards set. Standards set 25 years ago no longer fit the standards of today. It should be adjusted at least every 5 years. But, we must all remember that we were or are a part of the team that has to work together, to depend on each other and it is our responsibility to maintain our bodies to an acceptable standard that will not be a detriment to that team. It probably wouldn't be considered fair but maybe H&W Standards should by set by MOS's.

Yes I think its about time to allow Midgets and Leprechauns in the Military, they have a lot to offer and only need half the food and clothing. Big Momma should also have a chance to plug up holes in a navy ship. Since standards are being lowered we might as well take it to another level.

There are machines that can scan one's full body to determine their Body Fat Content rating. The only problem is that they are not portable and most likely expensive but they do have them.

It probably is time to revisit the standards, but there will always be those that aren't satisfied. The common thread of complaint I've read is that one who passes the PT test but fails the measurements is in trouble. The PT Test should prevail and perhaps it should be a more difficult test to measure true combat readiness. But then some folks are in MOS that don't require the "full battle rattle" of the infantry. Should they take a different test? Would that be fair? And then some will complain that the test isn't fair; not properly administered, etc. I recall a call I received from a young soldier when I was an IG. He complained that some six months after his medical exemption ended he was being required to take a PT test and it wasn't being fairly administered. I offered to come to his unit and take the test with him to be sure the NCO administering the test was fair. I also suggested that even as a 52-year old Colonel I'd probably beat his numbers. He hung up!

I say yes it should! As a former training NCO, I saw many fit soldiers that just didn't meet the Armies height and weight standards. Often times the females that were blessed in more respectful terms in certain areas were penalized for having body fat that just came naturally to them. I understand the purpose of the height and weight standard is to prepare each soldier to be fit to fight but in some cases there should be exceptions to the rules.