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Should Veteran’s Organizations Merge?
With 0.5 percent of American’s serving in the military that leaves only about 1.6 million people who have served that are alive today. The three big Veteran’s organizations which come to mind, at least in my area in the NE US are the American Legion, the Marine Corps League, and the Veterans’ of Foreign War. Each has their own membership requirements with the Legion seeming to be the organization that is most inclusive of all vets in the American Legion. The common thread that all veterans organizations share is declining membership and wondering why so many young vets are not joining.
While I don’t have an answer for that other than the possibility that many young vets see the various organizations as retirement homes where old Vietnam and WWII vets sit around, drink cheap beer and talk about their glory days. One issue I see is that maybe there is just too many organiztions fighting for too few vets today. While each organization has it’s own focus based on membership maybe it’s time to just say a vet is a vet and we are all getting a raw deal these days from the VA and from many others too. I think that combining the organizations is a sure way to ensure that any of these organizations continue to offer the services they do to veterans and to the communities they reside in.
With 0.5 percent of American’s serving in the military that leaves only about 1.6 million people who have served that are alive today. The three big Veteran’s organizations which come to mind, at least in my area in the NE US are the American Legion, the Marine Corps League, and the Veterans’ of Foreign War. Each has their own membership requirements with the Legion seeming to be the organization that is most inclusive of all vets in the American Legion. The common thread that all veterans organizations share is declining membership and wondering why so many young vets are not joining.
While I don’t have an answer for that other than the possibility that many young vets see the various organizations as retirement homes where old Vietnam and WWII vets sit around, drink cheap beer and talk about their glory days. One issue I see is that maybe there is just too many organiztions fighting for too few vets today. While each organization has it’s own focus based on membership maybe it’s time to just say a vet is a vet and we are all getting a raw deal these days from the VA and from many others too. I think that combining the organizations is a sure way to ensure that any of these organizations continue to offer the services they do to veterans and to the communities they reside in.
Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW)
The American Legion
IAVA
DAV
Posted >1 y ago
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Never joined the American Legion which does not include the Cold War Veterans of Europe.
I am a life member of VFW, DAV, AMVETS, NCOA and the MP & Signal Corps
I am a life member of VFW, DAV, AMVETS, NCOA and the MP & Signal Corps
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SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT
SPC John Rennpferd - I am personally qualify to join AL.
I just never agreed with their entrance requirements for those that served in the Cold War post WWII Germany
Are Not eligible.
I just never agreed with their entrance requirements for those that served in the Cold War post WWII Germany
Are Not eligible.
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SSG Richard Hackwith
If you served during the time frames of Korean and Viet Nam wars you are eligible to join the AL.
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SFC Wade W.
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT We are working on that. Still a lot of push back from the old guys on that but it's changing.
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No. The membership criteria are too different for the various organizations. They are different for a reason, and it goes back to the founding of these organizations, and is the basis for their differing congressional charters. The VFW was formed by combat veterans from the Spanish-American Wars, the American Legion by veterans from WW1. (Not necessarily combat veterans, but everybody that was in the services at the time.) The Marine Corps League is Marines. Period. The DAV, as their name suggests, have disabilities. And the list goes on and on. The last merger that I know of was when the Grand Army of the Republic (Union veterans of the Civil War) was absorbed by the Veterans of Foreign Wars shortly after the end of WWII. They absorbed less than a dozen still alive at the time. The VFW itself is the end result of the combining of several regional organizations that sprang up after the Spanish-American Wars.
Again, the answer is no, they should not combine. That said, there may be some point in the future where the members of some of the newer, smaller organizations that have been formed by the veterans returning from our recent wars in the Mid-East may want to merge into the larger, more powerful, well established organizations. It should not happen unless their members want it to.
Again, the answer is no, they should not combine. That said, there may be some point in the future where the members of some of the newer, smaller organizations that have been formed by the veterans returning from our recent wars in the Mid-East may want to merge into the larger, more powerful, well established organizations. It should not happen unless their members want it to.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
Best answer yet. Old thread. I'm shocked no one has thoroughly answered the question.
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Congress was able to keep veterans from organizing as one unified voice to avoid any more National Lawn gatherings that 100,000 WW1 veterans did when they were fed up with the government offering bonds as compensation that would be paid in 1945 - if any vets were left alive. They came from all over the country to protest, whereupon the Army was called in and opened fire. If we have 20 plus million vets under one roof we would be incredibly powerful and be able to force change in Agencies. By segregating us and offering specific "missions", then they avoid this problem.
Next question.
Next question.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
Now THAT is an AWESOME answer, Sir! I still haven't seen an answer with the legalities of the situation mentioned, but boy oh boy did you hit the nail on the head with the crux of the matter! Well said indeed!
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I could possibly see that these different organizations have sub chapters or different groups in the organization that cater to the needs of vets from a particular era/conflict. For the most part that is already happening. One reason that you don't see young vets joining is because we aren't recruiting while they are on active duty as much. Another reason is that people become joiners as they age. It's human nature. When you are young you want to experience the world and you are not interested in hanging out with older guys. I'm sure if you go back and check in the '60 most of the American Legion members were WWII and Korea vets and few were Vietnam vets returning from war. Most of the Vietnam vets probably joined in the late '70s or '80s. I know I joined the Army in '74 and didn't become a member of the VFW until '82 and the American Legion about '95.
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Don't agree, each organization has its own function and missions. For one MCL is exclusively for Marines, combat and noncombatant, we are not "just vets". The VFW is for combat veterans, different frame of mind and experience. The Legion is for all veterans. All these organizations do community service and is a place where a veteran gets the support they can only get from veterans who have had similar experiences.
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They cannot merge. Read up on Congressional Charter. They cannot merge without losing their lobbying status and rechartering by Congressional law under US Code Title 36 (although Congress holds no control over the organization. Congress, realizing they have no clue about civic issues, stopped issuing charters in 1992 . A traditional Veterans Service Organization as we know of them are usually a 501c4 (Civic Leagues) and have lobbying capacity. Their local chapters are all separate and independent 501c3 not-for-profit incorporations that are affiliated with the lobbying entity. Another IRS tax designation does exist, 501c19, "Veterans Service Organization", however, it has the very limiting language that 90% of the members must be war veterans, further demonstrating that neither Congress nor whomever designs the social benefit code in detail (the treasury?) has a clue.
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This is a great question, but I don't think combining all the organizations will work. I'm a member of a few of the legacy VSOs (AmLegion, VFW, PVA) & Post 9/11 ones (IAVA, The Mission Continues, Team RWB, Team Rubicon). All of them have a specific niche in the veterans community, and all of them are having troubles with acquiring new members. The younger VSOs have issues with getting veterans out to participate in events to include community building, sporting events, and becoming more involved with the organization. Legacy organizations have challenges with making their organizations more appealing to younger veterans because of their image as a place for veterans to socialize in smoky bars reminiscing about glory days, but not providing an outlet to younger veterans for leadership opportunities or community building. Of course they have lobbied on our behalf to Congress for benefits and rights, but many don't see that aspect of the organizations. Add to the fact that Post 9/11 orgs have open and free membership to veterans and their families (specific tiers of access) while the legacies limit membership to veterans only is a challenge, especially since our veteran and regular families help us with engaging our communities.
There should definitely be more collaboration between all the VSOs so veterans can see the pros and cons of the organizations and make their choices to join on that. But it always seems that I get the stink eye in my legacy organizations when that suggestion comes up to do more work with other legacy or Post 9/11 Veterans Organizations.
To add to all of the above, you will have some veterans who feel that someone's service "isn't good enough" because they didn't deploy, didn't serve in direct combat, weren't in combat arms, are a woman, LGBT, have a bad paper discharge but are otherwise contributing back in positive ways in their communities, or (unfortunately) because of their race or religion. Most of the Post 9/11 organizations do collaborate and do joint projects at least at the community level. But until we as a veteran community start looking at the value of all of our organizations and looking at working collaboratively, we won't see just 1 organization for veterans.
There should definitely be more collaboration between all the VSOs so veterans can see the pros and cons of the organizations and make their choices to join on that. But it always seems that I get the stink eye in my legacy organizations when that suggestion comes up to do more work with other legacy or Post 9/11 Veterans Organizations.
To add to all of the above, you will have some veterans who feel that someone's service "isn't good enough" because they didn't deploy, didn't serve in direct combat, weren't in combat arms, are a woman, LGBT, have a bad paper discharge but are otherwise contributing back in positive ways in their communities, or (unfortunately) because of their race or religion. Most of the Post 9/11 organizations do collaborate and do joint projects at least at the community level. But until we as a veteran community start looking at the value of all of our organizations and looking at working collaboratively, we won't see just 1 organization for veterans.
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SSG (Join to see)
SGT Cooper-Harris, I think your post completly shows that some streamlining is in order, specifically look at your case, you are a member of seven different organizations. In my case I am a member of three organizations. How effective can we be supporting multiple organizations? My though is that we should have a parent organization that helps to coordinate the activities of the groups with the purpose of Veteran activities and Veteran services.
One point you also touch on is that the traditional VSOs their community service is not widely known by many. For instance the VFW has a scholarship program to support college education, and the American Legion has a sporting (baseball) program to support children's sporting programs. The purpose of these programs is to support a strong country with a National Defense focus, by providing programs that provide individuals with skills that enable them to serve in the Armed Forces.
You are correct that many of the Post 9/11 organizations do not currently charge membership dues, but in the long run these organizations that are focused on a specific conflict, i.e. IAVA, the membership is limited and in-fact on the path to their own demise due to members dying off. To your point that traditional VSOs only limit membership to Veterans, that is partially true as family members cannot join the American Legion, but they can join the Legion Auxiliary and the VFW has a similar model. The Auxiliary model is where the individuals who want to support Veterans and are related to the actual Veteran can join the organization which is part of the greater parent organization.
Regarding the other organizations that you mention; The Mission Continues, Team RWB, Team Rubicon, these are community service organizations that happen to have their primary work completed by Veterans. So, while these are associated with Veterans, they are not a Veterans Service Organization with the focus on Veterans issues, more of an organization leveraging Veterans skills to enhance the community as a whole.
With all that being said, I do think the traditional VSOs need to adjust, and are slowly, which would better serve the current Veteran population.
One point you also touch on is that the traditional VSOs their community service is not widely known by many. For instance the VFW has a scholarship program to support college education, and the American Legion has a sporting (baseball) program to support children's sporting programs. The purpose of these programs is to support a strong country with a National Defense focus, by providing programs that provide individuals with skills that enable them to serve in the Armed Forces.
You are correct that many of the Post 9/11 organizations do not currently charge membership dues, but in the long run these organizations that are focused on a specific conflict, i.e. IAVA, the membership is limited and in-fact on the path to their own demise due to members dying off. To your point that traditional VSOs only limit membership to Veterans, that is partially true as family members cannot join the American Legion, but they can join the Legion Auxiliary and the VFW has a similar model. The Auxiliary model is where the individuals who want to support Veterans and are related to the actual Veteran can join the organization which is part of the greater parent organization.
Regarding the other organizations that you mention; The Mission Continues, Team RWB, Team Rubicon, these are community service organizations that happen to have their primary work completed by Veterans. So, while these are associated with Veterans, they are not a Veterans Service Organization with the focus on Veterans issues, more of an organization leveraging Veterans skills to enhance the community as a whole.
With all that being said, I do think the traditional VSOs need to adjust, and are slowly, which would better serve the current Veteran population.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
L-o-b-b-y-i-n-g and actual Veterans Administration services. So far NOT A SOUL on this thread has explained what a VSO is. Not one.
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SSG (Join to see)
Nicci Eisenhauer, not sure I follow your comment. Are you looking for the VSO definition, as provided by law? If so, I can look to see if I can find it. To your greater point, I would agree that many folks do not know what a VSO is, which in many cases seems to be a lobbying organization.
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I think a more effective question would be when are the older established vet orgs going to recognize the efforts of the younger vets who bled the same way they did, just 70+ years later. That will be a big hang up with some. Also another that wasn't mentioned are the grass roots vet orgs on FB, LinkIn, and on the Net. I believe combining them while not trying to be WWP (they seem to have left a bad taste in many I know), but have a identity that resonates with the current crop and the older crop would be best. VFW and The American Legion would benefit from this greatly if they reached out to those grass roots orgs and got them under their banner proving they're more than just a watering hole for the elderly.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
The barrier is their Congressional charters and articles of legal incorporation. Those organizations could not legally include you guys and you guys had no way of knowing which ones could include you... and the ones that could include you were terrible at marketing WHAT they actually DO for you... and then -- there's the, actually quite serious "funny hat" problem (and, yes, the generation gap, too. But the generation gap, I promise you with all my heart isn't why what I call the "Old Venerables" of the VSOs are not inclusive. Were they not bound by LAW not to include everyone, believe me, they'd trio over themselves to have you. Literally trip over themselves. )
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TSgt Chuck Mankin
While I don't have an answer, I agree. I am a member of various veteran organizations: VFW, American Legion, DAV, and FRA, but I am not active an any of them. The reason being is what you've stated. The few times I do go to the Legion or VFW posts, it's a bunch of older vets drinking beer and talking. Sure I like putting back a few cold ones and talking story as much as the next guy, but I want more than that.
While I don't have an answer, I agree. I am a member of various veteran organizations: VFW, American Legion, DAV, and FRA, but I am not active an any of them. The reason being is what you've stated. The few times I do go to the Legion or VFW posts, it's a bunch of older vets drinking beer and talking. Sure I like putting back a few cold ones and talking story as much as the next guy, but I want more than that.
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SFC Wade W.
PO1 John Miller I ride with AL 140, at least I did til this unknown Parkinsonism took my legs out from under me. I am still a member, hope to always be. It sounds like we probably know alot of the same folks.
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PO1 John Miller
SFC Wade W.
I probably saw some of your AL brothers & sisters yesterday then. Besides CVMA, a lot of AL riders showed up at the funeral.
I probably saw some of your AL brothers & sisters yesterday then. Besides CVMA, a lot of AL riders showed up at the funeral.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
Maybe read through my zillion comments about laws and such. Therein lie your answers. I need to write a book, apparently.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
MAJ (Join to see) OMG, HALLELUJAH! You are the sole person on this thread who has remotely answered the question! I was beginning to think not a soul could articulate the slightest of it. Mind you, I've written a doctoral thesis on a three year old thread! Oy.
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Many more than three, and not so easy to consolidate, and very unlikely they would.
There are 31 VSOs that are Congressionally chartered that are also recognized by
the Department of VA Office of General Counsel for the purpose of preparation, presentation, and prosecution of claims under laws administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs.
There are 11 Congressionally chartered that are NOT recognized by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of preparation, presentation and prosecution of Veteran’s claims only, but represent the interest of American Veterans.
Therevare 3 Veteran organizations NOT congressionally chartered but are officially recognized by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of preparation, presentation and prosecution of Veteran’s claims only. However, they do represent the interest of American Veterans.
There are 74 Veteran organizations not congressionally chartered or officially recognized by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of preparation, presentation and prosecution of Veteran’s claims only. However, they do represent the interest of American Veterans. Interesting that IAVA falls into this category.
Source: VA 2017 VSO Directory
There are 31 VSOs that are Congressionally chartered that are also recognized by
the Department of VA Office of General Counsel for the purpose of preparation, presentation, and prosecution of claims under laws administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs.
There are 11 Congressionally chartered that are NOT recognized by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of preparation, presentation and prosecution of Veteran’s claims only, but represent the interest of American Veterans.
Therevare 3 Veteran organizations NOT congressionally chartered but are officially recognized by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of preparation, presentation and prosecution of Veteran’s claims only. However, they do represent the interest of American Veterans.
There are 74 Veteran organizations not congressionally chartered or officially recognized by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of preparation, presentation and prosecution of Veteran’s claims only. However, they do represent the interest of American Veterans. Interesting that IAVA falls into this category.
Source: VA 2017 VSO Directory
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