Posted on Jun 18, 2016
Should we sell the AV8 Harrier Jump Jet and the OH-58 Kiowa Scout Helicopter to our friends and allies in Asia?
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The Asian partners & allies like Japan, Taiwan, the Phillipines and Thailand need to protect the areas by the disputed South China Sea. Selling all of them the 8 Squadrons of AV8 Harrier Jump Jets and the many OH-58 Kiowas could help them. Japan and Thailand have LHAs that can use the Harrier. The Phillipines can use the Harriers on their islands. Taiwan is buying the Harrier. What do you think?
Posted in these groups: 
67R: OH-58 Helicopter Repairman
152B: OH-58A/C Scout Pilot (RC)Aircraft Carriers
Taiwan
Foreign Forces
67R: OH-58 Helicopter Repairman 152B: OH-58A/C Scout Pilot (RC)Aircraft Carriers Taiwan Foreign Forces
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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LTC Stephen Conway Why shouldn't we?
LTC Stephen C. LTC Stephen F.CPT (Join to see)CMSgt Mark SchubertLTC John ShawPVT James Strait Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS COL Ted McPO1 John Miller SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SN Greg Wright1LT Christopher SorgePO2 Ed C.SrA Christopher WrightPO3 Michael JamesLCDR (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" ThomasCapt Christopher Mueller SP5 Mark Kuzinski
LTC Stephen C. LTC Stephen F.CPT (Join to see)CMSgt Mark SchubertLTC John ShawPVT James Strait Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS COL Ted McPO1 John Miller SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SN Greg Wright1LT Christopher SorgePO2 Ed C.SrA Christopher WrightPO3 Michael JamesLCDR (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" ThomasCapt Christopher Mueller SP5 Mark Kuzinski
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SP5 Mark Kuzinski
I see no problem is this sale COL Mikel J. Burroughs - I do not see any major transfer of Tech.
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Cpl Paul Smith
The advantages of selling our equipment to others, even if we end up having to fight against it, we know all the schematics and vantage points. The only secrets will be any modifications made to the original piece. The alternative is facing equipment that we know little to nothing about and having to discover the weaknesses on the battlefield.
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Keep some for spare parts but Hell Yeah I'm a firm believer in sharing or giving them a friend of the family discount on some.
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I think everyone seems to forget that India already has the Sea Harrier, so training on the AV-8B could easily be done there. As for training on the Kiowa, you only need to get someone trained on using a Observation Ball. Finding someone to fly or train people to fly the Kiowa is the simple part. It's a common helicopter for commercial use, and you have to remember that the OH-58 and the T-57 are the same airframe.
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I think it makes sense to sell "excess" AV8 Harrier jump jets and the OH-58 Kiowa Scout helicopters to our faithful allies such as Japan, Korea and Thailand. The Philippines have been on our side and opposed to us depending on the government. In any event if we sell these airframes it needs to be through a Foreign Military sales (FMS) contract vehicle where our industries can benefit by continuing to have airframes to support for spares [reparable and specialized consumable] LTC Stephen Conway Thanks for mentioning me COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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Uhm... The Kiowa is basically a Bell 206 with UHF radios and a gun. Bell already has a far superior helicopter on the market that could be militarized. The Harrier isn't even in production, not to mention Boeing doesn't actually own the rights to the aircraft, they only hold a production license, and BAe already sells export versions plus what the RAF and RNAF have been decommissioning.
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LTC Stephen Conway
So true..My Dad was at the old MD, now Boeing, aircraft plant in Long Beach and not sure if the assembly was in Missouri but you are right LT!
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1st Lt Karl Kratt
LTC Stephen Conway - Thank you, sir. The 407 or later model Bells make much better light observation and attack platforms, and it wouldn't take much to get them up and running. Israel converted a bunch of Beech V-tails into light attack and observation aircraft so it can't be too difficult.
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This an LHA for Army and Air Force people who may not know.
SFC (Join to see) SSG Carlos Madden SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM CPT L S CPT Pedro Meza
SSG Roger Ayscue CPT Jack Durish CPT L S MAJ Gary Jozens
SrA Edward Vong SrA Christopher Wright SFC William Farrell
SFC (Join to see) SSG Carlos Madden SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM CPT L S CPT Pedro Meza
SSG Roger Ayscue CPT Jack Durish CPT L S MAJ Gary Jozens
SrA Edward Vong SrA Christopher Wright SFC William Farrell
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We are already selling kiowas to allies, I think Turkey is first on the list, then Croatia as well
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SFC (Join to see)
The majority will go by FMS, and some are going to hole organizations (Police departments, forestry service)
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LTC Stephen Conway
Bell OH-58 Kiowa Scout Helicopter
At Fort Bragg 2008
SFC (Join to see) - Its perfect for civilians and its not much different than the executive helicopter the Jet Ranger. I think there about 360 available.
How good are those optics on the OH-58? Can it spot people or just vehicles. Is it a FLIR System? what can you tell me? I put this video on youtube. I took it from looking out a top of a hmmwv at Fort Bragg in late 2008.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdOMVnq5Dhs
How good are those optics on the OH-58? Can it spot people or just vehicles. Is it a FLIR System? what can you tell me? I put this video on youtube. I took it from looking out a top of a hmmwv at Fort Bragg in late 2008.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdOMVnq5Dhs
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SFC (Join to see)
Sir
It has optics similar to our TADS/PNVs on the Apache. It has FLIR and a somewhat HD day camera. The airframes have minor issues from decades of flight but overall it's identical to the stranger with some upgrades
It has optics similar to our TADS/PNVs on the Apache. It has FLIR and a somewhat HD day camera. The airframes have minor issues from decades of flight but overall it's identical to the stranger with some upgrades
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This was kind of a no brainer question the way you have the choices worded. Either way our allies need to be helped.
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Sure we could sell them a lot of stuff.....but the bigger questions are a) do they have the appropriate level of training to actually employ them effectively? and b) do they have the support systems in place to maintain this equipment? For nations like Japan and Taiwan, the answer is yes....but they have their own industries in place where they can develop their own weapon systems.
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