Posted on Feb 17, 2017
MAJ Company Commander
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Here's the background. You are an experienced Soldier. You walk in to the commissary to see a young 2LT shopping with a headset on. You professionally and politely get the 2LT’s attention and address the deficiency. They blatantly are rude, dismiss your comment, and tell you that those rules do not apply to him as an officer. Whether you are an Officer or Enlisted, how do you react?
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SSG Guy Gould
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Edited >1 y ago
Provided the lieutenant was in uniform at the time, my response, at the point where the lieutenant became unprofessional and he forfeited his position and authority, would have been, "Sir, I appreciate your candor. However AR 670-1 applies to you just like it applies to everyone else" all the while noting his unit patch, name, and shooting a video on my cell phone for his commander.

Apparently, this Second Lieutenant had not been properly run in. The last Second Lieutenant that was welcomed into a platoon that I was a part of found his desk chained to the outside of the company area per orders of the platoon sergeant. When the lieutenant asked about his desk, the platoon sergeant said he could move it back in to the office when he provided evidence that he would be a welcomed asset to the platoon (a team player).
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FN Charlie Spivey
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We picked up a newly minted Ensign out of the Acadamy while we were in Vietnam. On the way home, we were coming up on the International Dateline. We had also picked up a couple of Enlisted personnel as well, none of which had crossed the Dateline before, or at least while aboard ship. They were considered as having sneaked in the back door and would have to unbdergo the initiation as we all did. It went fine for the Enlisted guys, there were two I think, but the Ensign decided that he was above all of that and really pitched a fit. It go so bad, that the Captain secured it ( the two enlisted had been done ). When we got home, it wasn't long before he got transferred. Word had it that it was to some Isolated LORAN Sta. in the middle of no where. Hopefully the one outside of Thule Greenland.
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SSG Terminal Operations Nco
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NCO here. Be polite, respectfully remind him that he is setting a poor example for his soldiers, and carry on. If I could get his name and unit, I would tell my Sergeant Major, and let him handle that; as I work at a battalion, our Sergeant Major as direct access to our CO, a Lieutenant Colonel.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
CPT Aaron Kletzing
4 y
Love this answer!
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SGT Jim Arnold
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my thought is this. mentoring Pvt's and 2lt's, you do this by being courteous and polite without being confrontational or as others have stated being professional. You get more from honey than vinegar. You dont have to be an asshole to make corrections. With the 2lt you tell him that I as a NCO enforce the standards he as the officer sets the example. If he doesn't get it, its on him/her, its their career.
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SPC Daniel Rankin
SPC Daniel Rankin
8 y
Is that why you are hiding your identity? So you will not hurt your carreer? Part of your career sgt is carrcting errant 2lts also. Now sit on the egg and see if it does not crack. A lazy sgt does not get anywhere fast.
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SGT Jim Arnold
SGT Jim Arnold
8 y
SPC Daniel Rankin - its not hidden if you get verified. Your post would have some meaning if it was in coherent English
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SPC Daniel Rankin
SPC Daniel Rankin
8 y
I do speak coherent English sgt. it is a disease that makes it hard to type correctly at times. You do not believe maybe in integrity? I do. so watch your self okay? I do not like my intergrity questioned. I has hurt badly in the desert Storm and have a nerve disorder to show for it. Now please show respect for your elders if nothing else.
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SGT Jim Arnold
SGT Jim Arnold
8 y
SPC Daniel Rankin - chill out I was there also I never questioned your integrity. All I said is get verified and you can see my profile. I'm not going to change my options for anyone. As far as 2lts you cannot correct the same ways as you can enlisted , they are officers which are afforded respect as such. you must use tact and reasoning with both to accomplish your goals
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MSgt Brian Williams
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If he out ranked me and didn't respond to my comments, I'd find the first officer senior to him and ask, Sir, when were headphones authorized to wear in uniform? See I didn't think so. I tried to tell 2LT Dumbshit over on aisle 2 because he's walking around this commissarry right now wearing headphones. He doesn't want to listen to me so...
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SPC Sean Martin
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First of all, I would not have said anything because it doesn't directly effect me. During my job, while in, I had a few 2nd and 1st LT's question whether I was doing something correct, or if I tried any certain way to correct whatever I was doing. I would always respond with, " Sir with all do respect, If you have thought of it chances are I have too; Thank You" ...and continued on. I found that most just wanted to learn what I was doing, and how I thought.
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CW3 Tim McCarthy
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It's very easy to give the text book answer here, but as a good leader,, it is our responsibility to find out why he has this attitude. He may belong to a poor led unit which condones this type of behavior. If true, is it his fault he's been trained by the piss poor behavior of his superiors? Remember, he's a 2nd LT, not worldly, nor wise. Maybe his NCO support chain has neglected their responsibility by ostracizing this young LT because they think he's an asshole. I've seen it before. More times than I'd like to count. It is important to remember that most, if not all, of these young officers held "BMOC" (Big Man On Campus) status just a few months ago. It takes time to adjust to being low man on the totem pole. Some rebel. I've known plenty of young cocky lieutenants who I would have bet a dime to a doughnut wouldn't amount to a pile of crap, that I was proud to salute as Colonels and Generals when I retired 21 years later. So, here's the answer: Correct, train, follow up. That's all that can be asked of a good leader. It will be up to him to toe the line. His success and failure is fully on his shoulders if we, as good leaders, do our job. Oh, one more thing, the military is not for everyone. Don't take it personal if he elects to fail.

RESOLUTE
CW0 (Retired)
Timothy McCarthy
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SGT Byron Labadie
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I would roll him out like wholesale carpet. ( I am 60 years old now, and short on nom-sense). In reality, I would probably go on about my business and let a flag officer notice him. It will be at that point that he will learn. I was a enlisted member, I doubt I could help the man get his synapses to fire correctly.
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SGT Randall Smith
SGT Randall Smith
8 y
We used to call that a Mickey Mouse Reg. and I really would not care or take the time to comment on it. It would not be worth the hassle or the head ache. Every one hears about the E-4 Mafia? There is also one for 01's and 02;s. This Lt says thank you Sgt and goes on his way. He calls his buddy 1Lt John and says, "you know what one of your soldiers did to me?" And now the shit details start. You are going to pay and pay for what you did.
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SrA Sheri Wooldridge
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I'm retired. So I tell him to kiss my...!
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SFC Caretaker
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In my experience in having to deal with un professional CO (not just butter bars), usually the attitude and unprofessionalism can be carried down from the upper chain of command.
No disrespect to higher ranking COs in this thread, but a lot of them "toy" with butter bars just as much as NCOs mess with new incoming PVT, PVC so on and so fourth.
Every soldier has someone above him/her who they have to follow orders from. Some times their privileged attitude is purposely incouraged to test their readiness to be a leader of the unit and not there to make friends.

But, there are a few of those hot head that come in swinging old Lucy on a stick who think their shit don't stink!... lol... that's just my thoughts on it. Thanks for sharing MAJ (Join to see)
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SPC John Davis
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We had one like that in the field in Nam, he thought he was better than anyone wouldn't listen to us older grunts. A Charlie sniper took care of him. He wore his shiny butter bar on his helmet.
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SGT Randall Smith
SGT Randall Smith
8 y
John, we had one just like that. Chewed us out the first day he arrived because our boots were not shined, belt buckles not shined and no one saluted him. He was to be our XO. Our 1st LT set him straight but when he was in charge he reverted back. I came back from an R&R and he was gone. Something happened in the bush.

Later I got shot and the 1st Sgt took away my radio and put me to running convoys. Had a 2Lt had been there two weeks and I was taking him to an outpost. Before every convoy left I checked every weapon to make sure it was loaded and the safety on. I got to the Lt and he would not let me have his. Took it from him and found it was rusted shut. It got wet and he did not clean it. Wanted to know if he could use mine or one of the guys weapons. After we all quit laughing I took him to the TOP. We got back 3 days later and he had been relieved of his squad and sent to Can To, Bn HQ. They had already relived and sent to Saigon. He probably got out a 2Lt.
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Jerry Rivas
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I was a young PFC in Armor AIT when a female 2ndLT walked by. I saluted, and she ignored me. She found out real fast what the son of a Puerto-Rican 1stSgt thought of stuck up 2ndLts. She turned and returned my salute.
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PO3 Art Escalante
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Kindly remind 2LT of military courtesy. ..
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Maj John Bell
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The SNCO jungle drum network operated at the speed of light in my day. An officer with this attitude quickly found a field grade officer giving him/her the evil eye and ordered to seek out the enlisted man and offer a heartfelt apology for being such an ass. Then officer EMI began. Although I will say that a LT who displayed this kind of attitude had a very limited shelf life. If he/she didn't get "it" in training they probably never would get "it".
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SMSgt Roger Horton
SMSgt Roger Horton
>1 y
The nomenclature for this 2nd Lt would go something like: No purpose, olive drab, 1 each.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
>1 y
SMSgt Roger Horton - Accurate and far more ink than that particular Lt is worth.
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CWO3 Us Marine
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Handle per the words of former SgtMaj USMC Leland B "Crow" Crawford, with firmness, fairness, and dignity. Be professional but get the job done. It's just another of the many "situations" that folks in uniform have to navigate daily. If you're junior then your responsibility to regs stops at making him aware of it and tactfully suggesting that he square himself away for the good of the service. It's a judgement call from there, but it doesn't give you a blank check to violate the UCMJ so it's tricky. If senior then it's basically a one-way conversation without debate, and should be a learning process for the 2Lt.
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MSgt C Madd
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MAJ (Join to see) If available, find an AF First Sergeant or AF SMSgt. It's been my experience they make it a full time job making these type of on the spot corrections. They don't care who it is, seem to enjoy it.
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CDR Jon Corrigan
CDR Jon Corrigan
>1 y
It's unfortunate they don't have better things to do with their time.
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MSgt John McGowan
MSgt John McGowan
>1 y
Sir. But it so much fun, I used to do it on breaks and lunch so I would be able to inspect the barracks. Just having a little fun Sir. No offense in tended. Hope non taken.But when you have hundreds of men you dot hat a lot. Former AF 1SGT.
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CDR Jon Corrigan
CDR Jon Corrigan
>1 y
MSgt John McGowan - MSgt - it is absolutely, positively impossible to offend me. I thoroughly enjoy both poking and getting poked. Some of my best memories revolve around protecting 'my guys', both enlisted and officer, against regulation bullies.
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MSgt John McGowan
MSgt John McGowan
>1 y
Sir. I was always a good guy until a Capt. (AF) type made me pretty damn mad. He supported the man that broke the Reg rather than me. I walked out of the meeting, he was the EOT officer and needless to say we didn't get along at all after that. But I was the Shirt. If he ever went to the Col. I didn't hear about it.
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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If we are both in uniform and he really thinks I don't know better than the rules don't apply because he is a boot ass butter bar, he's either a dumbass or a jackass.
If he's a just an entitled jackass he will eventually pull that dumb shit with the wrong person and things will work themselves out.
If he is simply a dumbass who really believes the rules do not apply because he is a commissioned officer, he will likely end up hanging his own ass out to dry by walking off a dock or into a live fire range.
Or maybe I drop his name in conversation with one of the many outstanding officers who know and obey the rules as they should. One of them is likely to encounter that youngster eventually and make the correction.
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CDR Jon Corrigan
CDR Jon Corrigan
>1 y
Not all 'boot ass butter bars' are equal, as I learned quite early. Neither was the Boatswain's Mate Second Class Petty Officer who's spouse was a private secretary to a former Secretary of State. That one was painful for an entire nuclear powered aircraft carrier for about a month.
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
>1 y
Understood, however, the scenario clearly depicts a 2nd Lt (or Ensign) that believes he is above the rules. 95% of the newly commissioned officers I served with remembered who it was that taught them how to be a Marine (a SNCO). Only a handful had the sense of entitlement depicted here. The term "boot ass butter bar" is clearly in order for those who think this way.
I can't remember who said it, but the quote "the battlefield is littered with the bleached bones of officers who didn't listen to their NCOs" comes to mind.
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SSG Squad Leader
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I would let him go and set himself up for failure.
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CMSgt Frank Dailey
CMSgt Frank Dailey
3 y
Matt is that what you are expected to do and a NCO? What if that failure reaches the point where someone gets killed?
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1SG John Millan
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You can’t fix stupid. Let it go, he’ll crash and burn eventually.
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SSG Bob Robertson
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What we did back in the 70's as NCO's was never give them any advice, then watch them screw up. Trust me they always do. When they ask us, we would just say "sir I don't know, I have never been in that situation. "Then sit back and watch them get their butts chews by their superiors and laugh.
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