Posted on Dec 15, 2018
Waiver denied for USMC. Is it really possible to try again or should I look towards the Army?
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Update: Called an Army recruiting center. I was told that unless I get my depression diagnosis overturned, theyll most likely deny me as well and they just dealt with something similar recently. So im pretty much doomed... Really thought I left my shit in 2012....
Warning: I tend to add detail, so this is sorta long. My apologies, but I like to provide any necessary details to give any answers an idea and prevent questions that could've been answered had I not been lazy and just given some details.
So I tried to enlist in the Marines and was, sadly, denied. Apparently, and this was news to me, I am diagnosed with clinical depression and had been since 2012. Now there's a lot to my diagnosis, but the gist of it is: It makes no since, I've never been medicated, and according to all the therapists notes (sent to BUMED) I've never once come in seeming/feeling depressed or suicidal.
Now with that in mind, my recruiter suggested I could go Army or wait a couple yrs. Since I'm more set on the Marines, I am willing to wait. But I am concerned on if it's worth it or possible. I was denied due to a diagnosis I didn't know I had and been fine. How do I "improve" on it in a few years when I was already behaving normally? I have no self-harm scars or history, no drug use, no medications to kick (or using as is), no drinking, no criminal background, not even a speeding ticket, and I don't even smoke. How could I possible do better than I already am? All I can do is get my associates, I guess. But given I was denied for a surprise diagnosis (it literally stated the depression was why), I am discouraged on even trying. Im also concerned on if it's even possible since I was denied by BUMED, and after eight days since being approved by MEPS.
Now if it IS possible, my biggest challenge is obviously this diagnosis. I am seeing a different therapist to get to the bottom of why I'm still diagnosed with something I genuinely didn't know I had, felt I had, or thought about whatsoever. It's mostly to get an updated psych evaluation and assessment. But other than that, is there really ANYTHING I can do to sort of "prove" to BUMED that I'm fine?
And if it isn't possible, then I can peacefully know I tried and find a way to get rid of this diagnosis regardless. I refuse to be latched with a diagnosis that has such a low impact on my life that I didn't even know was there. I admit it did when I was 15, but I'm damn near 22 and obviously changed/removed those stressors.
Warning: I tend to add detail, so this is sorta long. My apologies, but I like to provide any necessary details to give any answers an idea and prevent questions that could've been answered had I not been lazy and just given some details.
So I tried to enlist in the Marines and was, sadly, denied. Apparently, and this was news to me, I am diagnosed with clinical depression and had been since 2012. Now there's a lot to my diagnosis, but the gist of it is: It makes no since, I've never been medicated, and according to all the therapists notes (sent to BUMED) I've never once come in seeming/feeling depressed or suicidal.
Now with that in mind, my recruiter suggested I could go Army or wait a couple yrs. Since I'm more set on the Marines, I am willing to wait. But I am concerned on if it's worth it or possible. I was denied due to a diagnosis I didn't know I had and been fine. How do I "improve" on it in a few years when I was already behaving normally? I have no self-harm scars or history, no drug use, no medications to kick (or using as is), no drinking, no criminal background, not even a speeding ticket, and I don't even smoke. How could I possible do better than I already am? All I can do is get my associates, I guess. But given I was denied for a surprise diagnosis (it literally stated the depression was why), I am discouraged on even trying. Im also concerned on if it's even possible since I was denied by BUMED, and after eight days since being approved by MEPS.
Now if it IS possible, my biggest challenge is obviously this diagnosis. I am seeing a different therapist to get to the bottom of why I'm still diagnosed with something I genuinely didn't know I had, felt I had, or thought about whatsoever. It's mostly to get an updated psych evaluation and assessment. But other than that, is there really ANYTHING I can do to sort of "prove" to BUMED that I'm fine?
And if it isn't possible, then I can peacefully know I tried and find a way to get rid of this diagnosis regardless. I refuse to be latched with a diagnosis that has such a low impact on my life that I didn't even know was there. I admit it did when I was 15, but I'm damn near 22 and obviously changed/removed those stressors.
Waivers
Marines
RE Code
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Christian King your biggest obstacle is the diagnosis. If you were prescribed meds and I did not see that mentioned and your parents filled them....regardless if you took them or not you have a pre-existing condition that is very hard to waive. You would have to have another doc over turn the original diagnosis. I dont have the accession reg in front of me to quote it, but having this before you come in is a steep road to climb. Have you spoke with any other service recruiters? The limitation for the military is accepting a person that will more than likely require treatment for life as well as being a non deployable asset. Without seeing how you were rated or dis qual'd, I can only guess. The AF will not take you of that I am sure. The Army however is p in niches for bodies and may waive it. I have read the Marines and Navy are following AF lead. I wish you luck and wish I had better news. Again try an Army recruiter and maybe you can cross over later. Thanks for calling this to my attention LTC (Join to see)
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LTC (Join to see)
Marty, thank you for responding quickly. I just figured anybody that I knew that had some military experience on the medical side. I didn't have any recruiters at tip of my tongue but you being medical have more intimate knowledge of the regulation. Thank you very much!
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MAJ Rene De La Rosa
There was an ALARACT published last year that said that depression and anxiety could be cleared up with psychiatrist documentation of treatment. That did change because they were concerned about allowing cutting behavior and other suspicious behavioral diagnoses being allowed into the Army.
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Maj Marty Hogan
MAJ Rene De La Rosa these change so fast anymore if you are not current in the reg you missed it. I know out current cases with ADHD and minor depression can be waived permanently after the original waiver process is accomplished. But accessioms are totally different.
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Christian King
While I dont want to do this, as I see it as time wasting, might be my only option as of now. Really frustrating to deal with this. The only branches I had intense interest in were Marines and Navy but guess Im fucked over there.
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You need to find out who diagnosed you. Was it a psychiatrist or psychologist? If a pediatrician or general practitioner it may be easier to get the diagnosis expunged . What age etc. were you diagnosed? You have a right to your medical records. Then start action to get diagnose removed if appropriate. Not sure how this works for military enlistment but the diagnosis can affect you going forward in the civilian world also.
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Christian King
Im hoping this diagnosis doesnt. Its only just words now, I could use less of a barrier in life. But im not sure who diagnosed me. I was 15 or 14 when I was diagnosed at first and most of my life between 13-16 I dont remember. Lots of moving and stress, constant tension to say the least.
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PO3 Jake Lucid
Absolutely sound advice, sir. Always challenge inaccuracies or misrepresentations in medical records...many time a GP or peds doc overstep their boundaries a bit and inadvertently hamstring folks.
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This is also a reason many people that are in uniform when they have issues don't seek assistance because they fear being labeled and removed from their duties and having that follow them. Issues that could be resolved aren't and buried but not cured and then without treatment get worse. It seems there are medical solutions to other physical problems but a failure on mental health issues and despite what is said that hasn't changed. Past stress situations may not exist any longer but it seems they never forget and look at it like they could arise again. There are situations however where people have gone off the deep end and the services and even the civilian Community are still concerned with that prospect and are terrified of having to deal with that sort of situation. That often doesn't take into account the learning process of growing into an adult and mistakes made as a juvenile while You were growing into adulthood that are well behind You. I'm not a medical person or qualified even slightly in that area but perhaps a second opinion for another Mental health care professional could help ? I wish You the best of luck in Your future careers and reaching whatever goals You set for Yourself.
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Christian King
Im actually seeing someone next week. Im very irritated with this diagnosis that is currently useless and a barrier to my goals. I want it GONE, since its so insignificant I can forget I even have it. Im growing up, im damn near 22, I resolved almost all of my issues as a 15yo. I could do without this completely pointless diagnosis in my life.
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Sometimes these are waiverable and sometimes not. It depends on how the diagnosis was written and who is looking at it. As many have said, the Army is short of people and would be the most likely to allow you to enlist right now.
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See if you can get, from your recruiter, some of your privacy information, your PULHES score (study this online definition etc) and if there is a Permanent Profile or 3P which is permanent disqualification which is a DOD standard code given by a Profiling Officer that can happen at MEPS and also in service by any profiling officer and definitetly an officer at BUMED. Go to your local congress person as well with all information and I have heard this helps with waivers as well.
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Christian King
Okay update. I did look over my paperwork and googled what you meant. I don't know if this is an issue or not, but I don't have a PULHES score or ANY information from MEPS. Like all the spots that you'd think would be filled out, my physical and everything, is bare. There's nothing. There's a request for a full physical from MEPS, since I need one it seems, but nothing. I do know I was never called or anything by them as well. So I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but there's not a PULHES score, I can't find anything on a Permanent Profile/3P/Permanent DQ, and I have not a damn thing filled out that should be/is done at MEPS. Quite honestly, all I did was take my ASVAB.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
not knowing all the details of your case I would still assume that there is a digital record of your processing and disqualification handed down from BUMED to MEPS. The digital record would show a PULHES plainly and it should be of a temporary profile for psych. The reason there is a digital record of your processing is so that you do not MEP Jump or something similar to going to another state and attempting to enlist and get a clear crack at it. Your digital archive would be something you can access through a FOIA through MEPS and you will also see your ASVAB etc on the digital archive. Again going to your congress person would be another avenue as I have met other service members who had waivers routed through their congress representative. This is very helpful. All congress representatives have a staff for military specialties. If you really want to serve this will show how much resolve you really have and you may just need to jump these hurdles but in the end it will also show that you have the resolve to be a Marine "Semper Fi".
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
Christian King - PSYCH is a touchy subject in the military. Depending on the profiling officer, probability is take the safe route and would not want to risk even 1% that there is 1% probability that you are tagged with previous PSYCH documents and you could possibly be a liability even 1% with pre-existing noted PSYCH. This is a adults game now. It becomes legal and their are benefits attached to injuries illness in military service including pre-existing injury illness that is waived for accession. That being said I do not know the extent or details of your history documents etc. But in the Military they are supposed to make those weaknesses stronger individually and as a unit. Not all Marines came from perfect families and had perfect upbringing never feeling a psychiatric depression as a kid. It is most likely 100% correct most kids experience some kind of depression and sadness for whatever reason as a kid. It just depends on how fast or how long it is experienced and goes away and affects your social development. Most of us who enter military service do so to find a better path of course. Whatever happens remember to fight the good fight. But these depressions can make us stronger if we learn from them in the process what caused it and how to make it better that is about the sum of it. Crap my dad was a Vietnam Era 66-68 Army 11 LIB. If you can show the resolve someone will notice to get that waiver. Enter the Military and make it a better place by being a better person working on yourself in a healthy way.
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Christian King Other knowledgeable RallyPoint members will provide you with information. I would like to see a way that you can enlist. Good luck Christian, and keep us posted.
BUMED:
The Bureau of Medicine and Surgery (BUMED) is an agency of the United States Department of the Navy that manages health care activities for the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps.
https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html
BUMED:
The Bureau of Medicine and Surgery (BUMED) is an agency of the United States Department of the Navy that manages health care activities for the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps.
https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html
Medical Conditions That Can Keep You From Joining the Military
These standards generally apply to all branches of the military. None of them are automatic disqualifiers, just red flags.
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Very slim chance, and it would not be a fast process. Were you a minor when you were diagnosed? If so, you'd need a parent or guardian to write a letter explaining the situation and stating that you have never taken medication. You would need another psychologist to overturn the diagnosis and it would still be submitted for a psych consult, and how that would turn out is anyone's guess.
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Christian King
Well if I get a consult, maybe thatll be beneficial since I never got one to begin with and that means BUMED and MEPS went off of outdated and inaccurate information.
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I applaud you for wanting to come in. I'd buy you a beer for the fact you haven't given up on trying to get in. I'm taking the beer back because you want to be a Marine, but that's ok....sorta....I'm a little butthurt you are choosing the Army as a second fiddle. You having this medical problem is a front burner thing right now. The military as a whole is dealing with a lot of troops who have been diagnosed with various forms of depression to include PTSD, and if it makes them non deployable(even if they kick ass at their jobs, and can take care of their Joes), they will be shown the door with a "thank you". You need to focus on YOU right now. Read what the docs have said, and come up with a plan of attack that knocks em down, and gives you one more step to your goal of being a crayoneater. If you help yourself FIRST, you'll be soo much wiser, so much more in tune, and be a leader who by first hand experience can see a situation coming before it happens. If you can get yourself straight and come in, you ARE what we need, at time where you're needed the most. You WANT to be in, where many do it just because.
Get treatment. Understand new coping skills, implement them, and try again. If you can prove you have it in "control"(depression is never truly beaten), you'd be a fool not to come in after all that work. But at the same time, if you couldn't, you did NOT fail in your mission, you need to establish a new mission that could still give you some of what you want. There is more than one way to serve. Keep going to school and there will be a DI or DS waiting to yell at you for everything when you're straight.
Get treatment. Understand new coping skills, implement them, and try again. If you can prove you have it in "control"(depression is never truly beaten), you'd be a fool not to come in after all that work. But at the same time, if you couldn't, you did NOT fail in your mission, you need to establish a new mission that could still give you some of what you want. There is more than one way to serve. Keep going to school and there will be a DI or DS waiting to yell at you for everything when you're straight.
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Christian King
First off, thanks. This definitely made me smile and chuckle when Im feeling a little down with everything. But im definitely encouraged to try harder and figure out what to do. I DID go to therapy, but to (succesfully) talk about my issues with my mother and grandmother (horrid relationship atm, Ive made peace with most of it). I just hope I can show whoever Im fine and got the stuff to be a Marine. Im not sure how but Ill figure it out, I always do.
Also, no disrespect to Army! I just know Id ONLY join for a single MOS that has very few spots open and if I dont get it Id be counting down my days. Sounds like a miserable way to be enlisted to be honest. But Marines? I cant explain it but Im getting in one way or another. Oh, and I dont drink but thanks for the thought!
Also, no disrespect to Army! I just know Id ONLY join for a single MOS that has very few spots open and if I dont get it Id be counting down my days. Sounds like a miserable way to be enlisted to be honest. But Marines? I cant explain it but Im getting in one way or another. Oh, and I dont drink but thanks for the thought!
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Ok- im old coast guard and have been an RN certified and working in psych for 10 years. Find out which physician or medical entity made the diagnosis (dx). Then challenge that dx and request it be removed from your medical records if there is no supporting documentation to have this dx in your records. Also keep in mind this- the marine corps and army have a high incidence of PTSD. Its a clinically founded and evidenced fact that pwople with a predisposition to depression and far more susceptible to ptsd and other maladies once placed under extended high levels of stress. Has to do with serotonin levels and receptors. Knowing this- choose wisely. Have you sought out other services who may be a bit more lax in criteria in this specific area such as the navy/coast guard/airforce? Successful completion of a term of service can aid in your admission to a second service. Many of my old LeDet team moved on from cg to army/marine corps. Food for thought.
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Christian King
I was told AF is almost, if not outright, impossible to get a waiver for. Navy apparently works under the same system as Marines, so thats a nogo. I looked over Coast Guard. Not too sure about them tbh. But eithet them or Army are my only options.
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PO3 Jake Lucid
What are you seeking to do in the military? Its a fact that some of the best electrical career choices are in the naval/CG service. Radars, sonars, comms equipment for example.
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