Posted on Apr 12, 2021
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Has anyone seen the story out of Virginia about 2LT Caron Nazario. I'm looking for some feedback on his actions and the police reactions. Is this acceptable conduct for an officer in the US Military Has anyone else had this kind of interaction?
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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Yes his conduct was 100% acceptable. He did nothing wrong. In fact, police often encourage citizens to pull over into a well lit area if possible, even when being pulled over by the police. There are instances of people pretending to be police as well.

Even if they claim they didn't see the temporary tag in his rear window in the cruiser, they'd have seen it when they got out. So there was no need to go up to him weapons drawn. No need to pepper spray. He was 100% right to say "Can I unbuckle my seat belt" because had he not, they probably would have shot him. Then that cop saying "you're gonna ride the lightning." That cop was looking for a reason to do something.

Also getting release with no charges or a citation - and the one cop got fired. The cops were wrong. He did nothing more than be a black man in a brand new car.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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SFC William Linnell - Who exactly are you responding to on this almost year old thread that got reactivated for some weird reason?

I didn't fail to understand anything in April last year when this happened. The LT didn't escalate anything. The cops were wrong. End of story. Not sure why this is getting dragged up again.

Also no it's not "well no one got shot so who cares?" That's privilege talking right there. Have the day you deserve.
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SFC William Linnell
SFC William Linnell
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SFC (Join to see) - SFC..Hell I don't remember. Just forget about it. Happy New Year brother.
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SSG(P) Engineer
SSG(P) (Join to see)
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Did you all here in this msg thread see what happened!? He was asking for 1.5 million $.
He got 3,685$ ! Bwahahahaha

Army should’ve gotten rid of him.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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SSG(P) (Join to see) - Why should the Army have gotten rid of him? He didn't do anything wrong. The cops were wrong and should have been held accountable.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Was pulling over and cooperating fully with the police, being completely deferential in a desperate attempt not to be shot for being the wrong skin color acceptable conduct for an Officer? Yes. It's pretty much expected for enlisted as well...
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PO1 Charles Smith
PO1 Charles Smith
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" Does the FBI routinely interact with the public at large the way state and local law enforcement do? By that I mean, are they conducting traffic stops, checking out with suspicious individuals, or being the first to arrive at the scene of a critical incident?"
nope as you already knew; this alone is the reason that a police officer needs more training than they currently get.
https://www.fbi.gov/services/training-academy/new-agent-training
I added this since you are too lazy to look up things yourself. I am not going to be your research flunky.
be so kind as to read what I think is a minimum that a police officer needs earlier in the thread before responding more. As a logistician I would expect you to do better than this.
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CMSgt Ron Meade
CMSgt Ron Meade
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PO1 Charles Smith - The FBI does not receive more law enforcement training than most large city, and state departments. Their training is in a whole nother ball game. Sorry, dealt with their agents on and off for 30 years as a State Trooper. Arrogance abounds in their organization, with the exception of some stellar Agents I had the privilege to work with in Missouri.
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PO1 Charles Smith
PO1 Charles Smith
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CMSgt Ron Meade - I will abide and bow to your experience. I still think police officers either need to be separated into response types or receive more training and ongoing training.
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CMSgt Ron Meade
CMSgt Ron Meade
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Didn't say I agreed with that officer response at all. I, like you, think it was a little ramped up, probably because the LT didn't stop in a timely matter. It was understandable, but on the other side, you start getting hinky thoughts when a violator refuses to pull over. I wouldn't have brought my ego into this fight, as it appears the officers did, so I agree with your prognosis. Just not about the FBI. Stay safe, my friend.
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LTC Kevin B.
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Considering that the military officer was released at the scene and was not charged, coupled with the fact that the police officer was fired after the internal investigation, I can't fault the young Lieutenant. I probably would not have reacted the same way, but then again, I have never faced being pulled over and treated so suspiciously like that.
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SFC Craig Titzkowski
SFC Craig Titzkowski
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Someone shot an unarmed vet on Jan 6th 2021 no one talks or asked the question when did the guy that pulled the trigger feel his life was in danger. Watch the video and honestly answer the question as a trained soldier when would you feel your life was in danger in that event and what would have you done
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
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SrA John Monette - He didn't drive slowly with hazard lights flashing, He didn't obey the commands of the officer. These very same group of people who are getting gunned down more then ever because we have taken the side that people can just disobey a command.
Every shooting gets investigated. 99 % of the shootings are because someone disobeyed a command given by a law enforce officer.
Also check the FBI stats, more white men our shot in the a same period as blacks the only difference it the news media, and whites aren't marching in the street against the use of force.
I am very scared and troubled that so many military people are not looking at facts. The police officer was fired I am sure because of PC and nothing more. These kind of actions, just divides this country and races even more. It's interesting that the Video I watched on this incident was narrated by and ex Black Police officer and military veteran, who looked at it with facts and logic and came to the conclusion that the Lt should not be in the military, I agree. That the officers did do some minor procedures wrong, and he said minor. But he believed they handled it right. The narrator's ( and I agree ) saw a not a scared person but smug person, who was using not only his rank as military officer but his race to challenge the officers.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
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CW4 (Join to see) - thanks for the video, but people will still now days take the side of the man who shot the officers.
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MSgt Brian Williams
MSgt Brian Williams
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TSgt James Warfield - Black men have been shot or killed by police while eating ice cream in his living room, complying with commands, not complying with commands, shot in the back, holding a cell phone, informing the police that there was a weapon in the vehicle but not in his hand, killed during a raid at the wrong house, and walking home from work in a snow storm. So if you find fault with a Black man trying to protect himself and the officers by driving to a well lite area before stopping. That's on you. Only thing I would have done is called 911 and tell the dispatcher to tell the officers that I was driving to a well lite area put my flashers on as I drove - slowly. I would do that only because my son is a LEO and I've done ride alongs with him and seen it happen. Everyone went home and no one was fired.
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Was the officer's conduct acceptable in the video showing his interaction with the Virginia police?
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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The 2LT was absolutely right. Those two cops were ABSOLUTELY wrong.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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TSgt Melvin Mitchell one cop yelling to keep his hands in the air and not to move while the other is screaming at him to get out of the car. Cop telling him that's gonna ride the lightning. Coming at the car with weapons drawn. I'm a big supporter of the police. But these two D-Bag cops were just that. D-Bags. Criminal evading for turning on blinker and pulled over in a well lit area? Ok.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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MSG (Join to see) - Yes, after failing to stop for over 1.5 miles with a police cruiser with lights and sirens on, That in itself is an offense You can and usually are arrested for. You don't get to pick and choose if or where You will stop or even if You will stop. One mistake they made was once You have taken a person into custody, Don't release Him, let the court do that. Their approach was different than mine would have been based on 40 years of full time Police experience. Not every situation is the same and then actions of the driver come into play I would approach the car and weapon holstered but gun hand free of any objects in just in case. stand where He has to turn His head and look back to see Me. I start I'm in a place i can see everything He does and react if I have to, most the time You don't have to. I start by telling they why they were stopped then ask for their license and Registration and I don't want them getting out of the car. Once they get out of the car control is not the same and besides now they are in a position they also could be struck by passing traffic. If they of course exit the car and try to run they will be arrested and unless they could run faster than Me for a couple miles aren't getting away. I will ask for items once , the second time I inform them they will either hand over the license or be placed under arrest if the refuse the third time I do place them under arrest and they already had been forewarned. I'm not there to carry on a debate or waste time asking for items they are required by Law to present when operating a motor vehicle.

On most occasions a military person, in civilian clothes with military ID or uniform won't get as citation unless there is an attitude which there usually isn't. I did stop an Air Force Major in Uniform with and attitude I wasn't going to write Him anything until He started loudly mouthing off about how He was a Major in the Air Force and conducting Himself with what under the Massachusetts General laws was Disorderly conduct which is an offense for which He could be arrested. I made it clear to Him of My familiarity with His rank due to My past Military Police experience and status and on a Military installation that would not be put up with and it won't be here either. At that point He was issued a $150.00 dollar fine speeding citation which He would not have been issued if it wasn't for His poor attitude. Just like on the DD Form 1408, Armed Force traffic Ticket, or civilian citation had a place on the copy the court receives as to the person's attitude and statements He made which I quoted word for word on that copy .
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SFC Michael Stampley
SFC Michael Stampley
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PO2 Greg S. - agreed:instigator
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
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Really I guess you didn't watch the video that CW4 Lou Quiñones posted right before your post. How I simple traffic stop turned into officer being shot by someone resisting arrest. Nope, not PC to look at both sides, let's only look at the one side. Let's not get all the facts. I watched the video, of the interaction with the Lt and Police officer. I watched It on pod cast that Black ex police officer and Veteran posted. SO not my words but this man's words. The Lt should not be allowed to stay in and I agree. The Lt was smug, and tried to play the race card as well as being LT in the military.
I it shames me as veteran of 20 years, our military has people that will support this kind of behavior.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Straight from the top...
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TSgt Melvin Mitchell
TSgt Melvin Mitchell
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How many times does an active Army officer need to be given an order before he complies. He FAILED to represent himself or the US Military in ANY honorable way. He refused, REPEATEDLY to comply and he SHOULD have been disciplined by his superiors for it.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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LTC Gary Roberts
LTC Gary Roberts
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Obviously did’t watch the video. TSgt Melvin Mitchell
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SFC Craig Titzkowski
SFC Craig Titzkowski
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It was all a game. I watched Same as holding a finger inches from your face and saying I'm not touching you when you have asked not to be touched.
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
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Having watched the full video, the Lt conducted himself as well as could be expected in a crazy situation like that. The initial officer is relatively new to the job and pulled him over for not having a tag. The temp tag is clearly visible in the rear window but considering this started on an unlit roadway it is possible he couldn't see it at first. The LT drove to a well lit area for both his safety and theirs and considering how this went down the well lit area allowed the video to be clear and showed everything that happened warts and all. A senior officer responded because the first cop escalated the call to high risk. The biggest issue is the contradictory commands being shouted by both cops. The LT froze in place because one cop is screaming keep your hands in view and out the window while the other is screaming to exit the vehicle. He can't do both at the same time and also reach down to unbuckle his seat belt. They were jacked up and as soon as he brought his hands down to his seatbelt somebody could have fired thinking he was reaching for something. The best thing he did was freeze in place.

The senior officer escalated this situation and kept threatening the LT.
I have always disliked Virginia Law Enforcement because there has always been a negative vibe towards Military. They go out of their way to harass and punish military members. This is an example of that.

An internal investigation was kicked off immediately because they knew this was a bad stop. The Senior cop on the scene was fired and this LT is probably looking at a wealthy settlement because nobody wants this to go to trial.
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TSgt Melvin Mitchell
TSgt Melvin Mitchell
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Well yes, as well as could be expected, other than refusing to follow an order, trying to argue and trying to hold his door closed when they tried to open it.
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Maj Pat Dominic
Maj Pat Dominic
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You forgot the part about getting pretty for his camera in a "watch this, yall" moment LOL
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SPC Kevin Ford
SPC Kevin Ford
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TSgt Melvin Mitchell - At that point the LT was reasonably in fear for his life. This is foreseeably what is going to happen when we continually excuse "bad apples" in law enforcement.

You just wait until black people start preemptively shooting at officers because they are in fear for their lives. Mark my words, if things don't change that story is coming.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
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Wow, so a twist on the truth. First off the Lt could have put his hands out the window up up so they could see empty hands. However the Lt refused to do as said. Go back and review CW4 Lou Quiñones post about a routine traffic stop that got police officer shot, which by the way happens more times then a black person being shot.
Had the Lt slowed down, put his flashers on and proceeded to a well lite area, I might agree he did the right thing. But after watching the whole video of police cam narrated by Black Ex police officer and military veteran, Who did very good job of narrating step by step, pointing out the Lt's wrongs as well as the police officers. I agree with with the narrator that the Lt was way in the wrong, and should be let go from the military
I agree that the Lt was not scared, but was acting smug, defiant, played the race card as well as the Military card, and officer card.
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CPT Staff Officer
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As pointed out, someone with complete information on the scenario and administrative authority fired the police officer in question. The Department probably got very lucky and was able to avoid a potential bigger problem in the future. Case closed as to who was in the wrong or right. The officers were acting in accordance with the luxury of training and the use of deadly force. The 2LT was flying by the seat of his pants hoping the guy with a gun wouldn't twitch his trigger finger.

Let's stir the pot:

I think many here are failing to acknowledge the tiny town of Windsor only has a few cops. I am absolutely certain the selection and training process of a new military officer in any branch of the DOD is astronomically higher than the quality of selection and training for a town with only a few cops, for a job that only requires a high school diploma, and no felony or violent misdemeanor convictions.
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PO1 Don Uhrig
PO1 Don Uhrig
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It sounds like you are excusing a police officers behavior and degrading his qualifications based on your "tiny town" assumptions. While I am not defending the abhorant actions of an extremely small number of Police officers nationwide, your comments are offensive to State, Federal, and Department of Veterans Affairs Law Enforcement Training Centers. The DoD LETC is no better or less than any other in the realm of entry level training. And the truth is, racism can - and does exist - in the DoD 'police' just as much as anywhere else. The officer(s) weren't just handed out badges in the "tiny town" of Windsor. The officers attended an accredited LETC at the State level. Again, I am not excusing an individual's behavior, but it is unfair to cast the Police Service of Windsor in a harsh light under the guise of it being a tiny town and leading others to the false conclusion that the qualifications and training of the Officers are ineffective.
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SGT Andrew Anderson
SGT Andrew Anderson
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PO1 Don Uhrig - Studies of US police academies show they spend far more time on firearms training than on de-escalating a situation - 71 hours against 21, on average. They spend very little time understanding the Constitution and the rights granted by that document which leads to confrontations with those individuals who do know their rights. More people are killed by police in the US than in any other developed country in the world by a huge margin, why is that, some would say it's because of the availability of firearms by the citizens, however, Finland has one the highest gun-ownership rates in Europe, with around 32 civilian firearms per 100 people - but incidents of police shooting civilians are extremely rare, why, because of the training the police receive. Police officers in the US are on average certified after between 600 and 800 hours of training while in Finland and Norway, that number is 5500 hours. Police training requirements in more than 100 countries have been studied and found that the US had among the lowest, in terms of average hours required in order to be given a gun, a badge and the right to use deadly force. Most of the training in the US is focused on various types of use of force, primarily the various types of physical force. While communication skills are largely ignored by most police academies.
This is why you see so many officers very rapidly escalating from initial communication to the actual physical use of force, because that's is how they train, they are trained to be fearful and mistrust everyone and they treat every encounter as if it is life threating situation, where in actuality only about 10% of police interactions with the public are violent. Training is the key, not defunding in my humble opinion.
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PO1 Don Uhrig
PO1 Don Uhrig
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SGT Andrew Anderson Thank you for the forensic analysis and dissertation. What you may have overlooked mentioning is your active part in a solution for all your vigor. No? Then move to Finland and STHUP.

Me? I am actively part of the police force dedicated to non escalated solutions.
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SGT Andrew Anderson
SGT Andrew Anderson
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PO1 Don Uhrig Your response is an example of exactly what I was talking about. Rather than having a discussion related to what I posted, your apparent police training does not allow you to do so. Your response dosen't reflect your “non esculated solutions” you mentioned, your response is typical “shut the F up or get out“. I was simply stating some factual information regarding policing in this country and did offer an opinion and that was police in the US lack the proper training to be given the authority to ruin someone's life just because they don't know the law or understand the Constitution. I actually heard a police officer tell someone “unfortunatly, he has Constitutional rights” really it’s unfortunate that we have rights? As long as we have police officers who feel like they are superior to everyone they are paid to serve and have the misguided belief that everyone needs to bow down to them and do what they say, even when they have no legal right to demand anything from anyone who has not or is not committing a crime. I would suggest you are-take the escalation training, apparently you must have missed a few sessions. Take care and thank you for your service.
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LTC David Brown
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After a review the officer was fired. I think the Lt was appropriate in his actions. I think the police officer over reacted. I consider the police ff er completely out of control.
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TSgt Melvin Mitchell
TSgt Melvin Mitchell
3 y
So, you think it is "appropriate" for someone to refuse the order of an officer? YOU think it is "appropriate" for someone to try to hold the door closed when the officer is trying to open it? Yes, the officers probably over reacted and could have handled it differently too but the LT was just as guilty as they were of escalating the situation.
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
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Felony traffic stop??? I heard it was air fresheners hanging from his mother rror
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
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So you missed the post earlier by CW4 Lou Quiñones the video showed how a routine traffic stop for DUI turned in to a resisting of arrest and got the officer shot.
Oh and let me see if I understand you, then every military person that shot a civilians in that ordered and the person to the ground, to secure the area, and themselves would not be justified in drawing their weapon and pointing at the individual for not following commands from the solider? I mean instead of relying on past incidents where a solider was shot, should never enter the picture.
Wow, just shaking my head.
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SSG Edward Tilton
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Not in my world. What was the offense? Was it a violent felony? Why did they have their guns out and pointed at him?
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
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SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - the sop was for air fresheners on his rear view mirror. Not a felony. They found out he had a warrant, did the warrant have a detainer? Was it a misdemeanor warrant or a felony warrant?
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
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What was the felony?
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CPL Jason Northedge
CPL Jason Northedge
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TSgt Chuck Mankin that is so incorrect. Pulling into a lit area is not considered fleeing. Not sure what law says it is but I'm sure u know what it is.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
3 y
Suggest you look at it with view of the Police officers as well
take a look at CW4 Lou Quiñones, were a routine stop and arrest turns in to a restiance of arrest and the man getting to his car grabbing gun and shooting at both officers where one is shot. This happens way more then the media shows and way more then those who are shot by police. However that is not correct PC today, let's vilify police that fits the narrative of dividing us. Heck let's just let each individual decide rather they want to follow the law, and police orders. Sorry the Lt escalated this.
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
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First and foremost, the Police Officer acted completely irresponsibly, he entered false information in the Police report (that the LT was trying to evade), he had some very bogus reasons to conduct a felony style stop, and ultimately should have been fired.

That said, the LT did not help matters in this case. When you are pulled over, you should comply with the Police Officer's orders, regardless of the fact you believe you have done nothing wrong. You have no idea why the officer might have pulled you over. A vehicle like his may have been identified in another crime for example in which the Police might have been told the individual was armed and dangerous. His actions were perfect all the way up to the point where he continued to constantly question the officer's need to have him step out of the car. Ask yourselves this question, as military members, would you have done the same as the LT in this situation and not get out of the car as instructed? I wouldn't.

This makes me wonder as well, with all the pressure and spotlights being placed on our nation's Police. The standards they have to live by is incredibly high, in which many outstanding officers are stepping down because there is little recognition from many in their communities of the challenges they are faced with. Is this in essence forcing the Police to hire or even promote less qualified candidates? Is is affecting the leadership within the Police Departments by causing many to retire early as they don't want to be caught up in some misconstrued mistake? In the past, virtually every politician would rightly state; 1. Due process is essential, let the investigations pan out and do not overreact before we know the facts. 2. Becoming a Police Officer is a call to service and they should be given respect for that service. 3. Initially I am inclined to trust an officer, especially when all I know between an Officer and those which they arrest, is that the Officer entered into a service bound by an oath to protect and serve. As I learn more about the individuals who challenge the Police and the facts leading to what they did, my faith in that specific Officer may change but never the institution of the Police.

My rule of thumb, follow the instructions of the Police, don't make their job harder, if you think they are being irresponsible, record their actions, and ask witnesses to do the same (ask if they have their own camera on). Instead we are watching people who are clearly breaking the law, resisting arrest, and threatening Police Officers get the benefit of the doubt, expecting the Officer's actions to be 100% perfect. My fear is that fewer and fewer people will want to be Police Officers and the quality of our Police will suffer even more. This is why despite the poor actions of a very select few Officers should never lead us to disparage or disrespect the institution of the Police and the sacrifices they make everyday trying to protect us all.
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
3 y
There wasn't any contradiction in their instructions. One officer, the junior one, was following the lead of the other. That lead officer acted irrationally. Which do you think is more dangerous, challenging a Police officer or complying with their instructions? Yes, there are excellent officers out there and this particular one does not represent the overwhelming majority of them. Point to ANY organization and you will find bad apples, no matter how respected that organization is. Currently, the Police have a spotlight on them right now and every move most of them make is getting second guessed, over analyzed, and armchair quarterbacked.

Imagine if you will the officer was on the lookout for a vehicle fitting the description of the LT's. What if a similar vehicle had been reported as stolen by an individual identified as armed and dangerous. Would the officer's instructions have been justified then? Likely so. It also could have turned out a lot worse for the LT too. The point is, we don't always know why the Police might be pulling us over, and making their job harder is not a good idea, regardless of how irrationally they act. There are officers literally being shot in the streets and on the side of the road after pulling drivers over. So while that LT might have some race related fear a Police Officer might do something racist, many Police Officer's have to wonder if they are the next one who might be shot for no better reason then the fact they are a Police Officer.
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SFC Clark Adams
SFC Clark Adams
3 y
In this case I ask you which party was judged to be wrong by local and state authorities? I understand all you posted but I do believe that there are far too many LEOs who are power hungry and abuse their authority. While this LT appeared to be compliant the senior officer made comments/ threats that reinforced the LT's expression of fearing for his safety. Until there is a nationwide mandate for higher standards to become a LEO along with ongoing training coupled with swift and transparent actions when LEOs fail to conduct themselves and perform their duties professionally.
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LCpl Sidney Green
LCpl Sidney Green
3 y
TSgt Melvin Mitchell - There are countless video examples of police using excessive force on suspects with zero resistance or provocation. Even suspects that have surrender and are on the ground getting beaten, kicked in the head, and even shot.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
3 y
Very well said, I agree with most of what you said. However two wrongs don't make a right. 1. The Lt didn't follow commands from the get go. 2. I agree with the narrator of the pod cast I watched showing the full video of what happen, even to part where the command officer explained why they did what they did. The officer was right the followed the guy for a mile and half. Did the Lt slow down, and put his flashers on, to show the officers that he knew they wanted him to stop. I know many police officers understand this action. 3. Now day for police officers, a routine stop turns in to the possibility of an officer ben shot. Like the officer pointed out, they windows were tinted, they didn't know how many were in the car. CW4 Lou Quiñones earlier in post, posted a video of a routine stop where the police officers were shot at, one was wounded. This is happening more now days then ever.
Didn't know about the false report, will take your word for it, and if true then the office needed to be fired.
However like I stated earlier two wrong don't make a right, the Lt was wrong, and action should be taken against him, however it won't, PC, RTC has taken over common sense and facts. Until we address both sides of the issue and not just the one side, ( against police officers ) things will not get better, and the nation will only be divided more.
Bottom line I agree with Narrator who was Black Veteran, that the Lt was not scared, was smug, and played the race card, the military card and the being officer card. in Other words he felt entitled. We can not have citizens running around deciding rather they want to follow the commands of police or not.
Follow the commands, if the officer misused used his/her position and were on power trip, then make formal complaint.
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